Hello Pro-Choice!!

[velvett]

I hear this argument a lot and I disagree. If you believe this, the man should not be at all responsible for any child support. If he is liable for child support, then you are acknowledging that he has a stake in the matter, therefore no abortion should be performed without his consent.

Can't have your cake and eat it too.

I also don't think it is the woman's decision alone because there is a third party who has a stake in the matter...the unborn kid, and the stakes are high--life.

If I personally were to make a choice that the "father" did not agree with I would not expect anything from him. Bullshit you say to yourself - for me no - never needed a man before wouldn't want him around for a child he didn't want.

The unborn child has no say - the egg being fertilized has nothing to do with the unborn child - pregnancy is by chance and making it to term to be delivered is chance.

Planned and unplanned pregnancy are a matter of chance the only factor that is constant is the use of contreception.

 

[velvett]

My point throughout this whole thing, which no one has refuted, is that any one of us, if we were on the receiving end of abortion, would not be here. We are all here because someone did not do that to us. These statements are true.

The man/woman thing is a non-starter/distraction to the greater issue.

How any of us can argue for a practice that would result in our own non-existence is the height of illogic.

You could have also been delivered still born or died before leaving the hospitial and you know what you wouldn't be here.

Our being here period was soley by chance.

 

[velvett]

Since it was a judical ruling, a context of political viability seemed appropriate.

There hasn't been even a shred of logic in any of your posts, just emotional mumbo jumbo. "Passionate"? Is that a rationalization mechanism for "illogical"?

There has been lots of name calling though, mostly from you. Yet I am condescending?! Wow. I guess there really is no limit to what people will do to justify their perspective.

Abort this!

Hello!

Partial birth abortion has NOTHING to do with abortion done during the first 20 weeks of pregnancy.

I doubt anyone would disagree with my statement of your feeling that your statements are the only one sworth hearing, reading and accepting.


If someone doesn't agree with your point of view you treat them like they are imbeciles.

Would you like my to support my statement with examples?


The difference between you and me is that I'm telling you how you act sometimes you displaying a patronizingly superior attitude to people that don't agree with your every word.

 

[velvett]

Your example actually supports my assertion. AIDS did alter the sexual practices of people, not heterosexuals, but those most at risk, gay males.

Not hetrosexuals?! At last check it would be the hetosexuals that create the most babies, no? And if those most at risk have not continued their safe sex practice why would the hetros practice safe sex?

With abortion being so readily available, what excuse can we have for all of the unwanted and abused kids in the US?

Just proves that the Pro-Lifes aren't better parents then the so called murders.

Where is the logic of this world, when the very groups that advocate abortion on demand, to terminate the existence of individuals who have done nothing wrong, save exist, also scream to spare the lives of convicted murderers?

An unborn fetus has no say - never have never will. Unborn fetus is lucky to make it through gestation and birth.

What would you say about the cultures that used to drown female babies when the male babies were the only desired offspring?

Are they murders? Or was it just a culturally exceptable practice?


Lets step away from pregnancy for a moment.

Lets talk STD's - they are controlable for the most part and if someone contracts a STD they can go to the doctor for help. Is that no the same mentality of someone that gets pregnant by accident and goes to the doctor to fix their problem?

Should we stop treating STD's so people will start to learn to take responsiblity in having safe sex?

Also, has anyone noticed that is mostly MALES that have the strongest most vocal opinion about abortion? Why is this?

Why should someone without a uterus has so much to say about it?

 

[atlantabiolab]

Not hetrosexuals?! At last check it would be the hetosexuals that create the most babies, no? And if those most at risk have not continued their safe sex practice why would the hetros practice safe sex?

You missed my point. Your example did show that action is altered based on risk, as shown by the drop in AIDS cases in the gay male population. Change the risk of pregnancy to that of full term gestation (no abortion on demand) and watch the actions of people change. No questions about it, it would happen. Would it prevent all from being irresponsible? Of course not, but we are not expecting perfection, simply greater responsibility.

I know many women who have full sexual lives, with no children, because they are responsible. Because they do not wish to have children, they do what is necessary to prevent this event.

Just proves that the Pro-Lifes aren't better parents then the so called murders.

Nice try, but I can guarantee that a large portion of shitty parents are not ardent Pro-Lifers, more than likely they have no qualms about abortion. Simply because a person does not have an abortion, does not equate to pro-life advocates.

An unborn fetus has no say - never have never will. Unborn fetus is lucky to make it through gestation and birth.

Neither does a day old infant, or a week old baby, a month, one year. Not a reason for killing it.

Your argument of "autonomy" allows for the termination of many born individuals.

What would you say about the cultures that used to drown female babies when the male babies were the only desired offspring?

Are they murders? Or was it just a culturally exceptable practice?

They are murderers. I am not a mush-brained cultural relativist. If it is murder here in the US, why would it be different in another country? The principles of morality don't change, man's understanding of them do. Cultures which fail to discover them are doomed to animal status and their failure can be witnessed.

Lets step away from pregnancy for a moment.

Lets talk STD's - they are controlable for the most part and if someone contracts a STD they can go to the doctor for help. Is that no the same mentality of someone that gets pregnant by accident and goes to the doctor to fix their problem?

Should we stop treating STD's so people will start to learn to take responsiblity in having safe sex?

No, government's responsibility is not to protect you from yourself, it is to protect your rights from the infringement of others and vice versa. In the case of abortion, the idea is the infringement on the rights of the fetus, the new entity. The case of abortion is the mother demanding her right to not be inconvenienced with a child, after rejecting responsibility, vs. that of the right to life of the fetus.

In the case of STD's, the infection with, and treatment of the disease does not infringe upon the rights of any one else. So there is no party to protect. The reduction in irresponsibility is a secondary benefit in my argument, the primary one is that of the right to life, from which all other rights derive. I cannot argue that I have any rights, if I don't even have a right to exist.

Also, has anyone noticed that is mostly MALES that have the strongest most vocal opinion about abortion? Why is this?

Why should someone without a uterus has so much to say about it?

Very simple. Why do the elderly vocalize so much about Prescription Drug Plans and Social Security? Why do minorities demand Affirmative Action and reparations?

Groups will fight to protect and advance any program which benefits them directly. Because a group advocates a policy, tells nothing of the validity and morality of the policy. Because whites advocated slavery, did not mean that it was "good", only beneficial to the group. Thus, females will be the most favorable to abortion, since it benefits them directly.

 

[Dial_tone]

I wonder what correlation, if any, there is between children who were in foster homes and criminals.
(I'm sure atlantabiolab has an answer to this).

 

[curling]

I see the beginning of the end for abortion. If it is a womans body and she can do with it as she pleases, then why can't men do the same? Or anyone? I mean, drugs, alcohol, tobacco, suicide, etc?

I mean really, why hasn't someone figured this out already and used it to legalize drugs, or assisted suicide etc?

I am against abortion which I see as murder in the first degree, pre-meditated and anti-human.

But that is me.

Awesome post. I wonder if people that are pro abortion ever think that if their mother was iresponsible like they think is ok their asses wouldn't ever be here.

 

[Dial_tone]

Awesome post. I wonder if people that are pro abortion ever think that if their mother was iresponsible like they think is ok their asses wouldn't ever be here.

If you'd actually read the thread you'd see we have. Matt & I covered this one.
I wouldn't be here but I wouldn't be here to care either.

This issue will never solved because the two sides aren't just looking at different sides of a coin, they're looking at entirely differently coins. You're arguing it's murder. We're arguing it's her choice. I don't care whether you think it's murder and you don't care whether I think it's her choice.

 

[atlantabiolab]

I wonder what correlation, if any, there is between children who were in foster homes and criminals.
(I'm sure atlantabiolab has an answer to this).

Probably similar to the correlation between being black and criminality.

 

[Dial_tone]

Exactly, so if black people have more abortions we can decrease welfare payments AND crime will go down.