the EXECUTIONER....

[MattTheSkywalker]

May,

I didn't realize 500 words was too much for you. Now you;re a court reporter so you do it all in shorthand. Sorry.

I'll let the mod comment slide, mostly because I was helping this board along when you liked girls.

Pic? yeah....soon.

 

[May1010]

Captain Awesome,

Please put me on your ignore list.

 

[TxCollegeguy]

Ryan normally your arguments have some good points, but this one committs a fallacy. To assume the death penalty used in 1 system vs another is still the same is wrong. China and the U.S. shouldn't even be compared even in death penalty cases. Death penalty is not even carried out the same way in either country, therefore to assume it's a bad deal just for carrying out the sentence is wrong.


the death penalty is not used as a deterent, it's used as a punishment to those individuals sentenced to die. If somewhere a person is detered after hearing about an execution only then has the execution added value to influence someone elses choices made.

Yeah I agree lets not waste the resources on neat shots, and electricity, Lets make it simple like line up the people on death row, march them into a court yard and hang them 1 by 1 or drown them in a bucket of water. I bet the bean counters would love the money saved on that. After all legal challenges are used up. If you want to pay taxes to keep people alive for life in prision I say let you pay it, I don't want to. I would prefer to see more road gangs, and making any person in the big house contribute to society. I can think of a really cheap way to get them food but I'll save that idea for another time

 

[absolute hardgainer]

Let's not forget that China is also the only country that forces women to have an abortion as a birth-rate control measure.
Even if you are pro-choice this is pretty damn sick!

hardgainer (letting off steam)

 

[Superfoot]

You can't compare crime in China to the US because of the conditions in which they live. True, there are poor people in the US but there is a much greater percentage of the population living in poverty over there. They get paid much less for a days work (which is why most major industries have production facilities in China).

As a result, many resort to crime to get enough food to live and to feed their family. They can't see any other option so they are risking death whether they do the crime or not.

In the US, there is a big difference, we are not putting purse snatchers to death, only killers (a low percentage of convicted murderers at that). And IMO crazys like McVeigh need to get put down not only to protect the rest of the population but to give the people some confidence in our justice system.

 

[RyanH]

MattTheSkywalker: I'm glad that we agree that full DUE PROCESS is required in death penalty cases. In fact, wouldn't it become "cruel and unusual punishment" to shortchange the appeals process----since those criminals would be facing death without the justice system having run its full course?

Both you and TXCollegeGuy dismiss the "deterrence" argument very easily. But, how many times have conservatives or death penalty advocates said, "Well Oh, in China, they don't have the crime that we do, and you know why? It's because they have the dealth penalty in full force."

You may not agree with deterrence as an objective of the death penalty, but it is nevertheless the most common reason advanced in support of it. How many times do we hear, "McVeigh must be executed not just out of retribution but to send a message to other terroists that such conduct will not be tolerated?'

Often some of you argue that "emotion" should be left out of any policy arguments, and many of you sound a loud call for pure logic. Isn't retribution---giving someone his "comeuppance"--based purely on emotion.

Offering retribution as the sole reason for the state taking a life is not only emotional, it's also a very weak policy argument.........

 

[john937]

I think what we're seeing is yet another manifestation of China's overpopulation, and how they handle it.
They have so many people that they've taken the approach "Life is not a right, it's a priveledge"
Their culture is not based on an individual's Bill of Rights,
but instead they prize the individual contributing to the whole.
So if you steal, rape, etc...you're not contributing to the whole
and loose your "priveledge" to continue living.

The way China handles it's overpopulation is odious to Americans, (forced sterilization for one)
but seems to be working for them. The people have more
to eat and enjoy a higher standard of living,
and are pulling themselves out of the "third world" to build
a world class economy. So if you're emphasis is on what's good for the whole,
then from their standpoint, these executions are justified and reasonable.

I'm just worried if we continue our rapid population growth, we might wind up in the same boat.

 

[RyanH]

Why do so many of you argue that you can't compare the United States with China? China, of course, has even a greater population than we do and have many more executions per crime than than the United States has.
It seems that the argument goes: "Well, they don't have alot to live for, so they really don't care if they are executed?' This is a BIG ASSUMPTION. China has many of the problems the U.S has, such as problems with gangs, but China also has a professional middle class and is more Americanized in its social make-up than one might expect...

More on point, I think, is that criminals simply do not think about the ramifications of their actions...Deterrence doesn't work....Crime find its roots in social/cultural problems, not in a "soft justice system."

 

[Fonz]

You people are truly sad

In normally don't get involved in these types of threads, but I have
to get invloved and say:

ARE YOU PEOPLE INSANE?????


Get rid of the appeals process when one is found guilty?

I'm sorry but you people are truly pathetic.

Its all fun and games for you just because you aren't involved.

Lets reverse the tables then:

Lets say you were accused by an eyewitness of being
near a crime-scene(where a murder took place)
Now, you know you hd nothing to do with it BUT YOU WERE
THE ONLY ONE SEEN NEER THE PREMISES.

The police only cares about solving the crime and has
comitted a LARGE NUMBER OF MISTAKES OVER THE years
o solve crimes. This is a fact of life. People MAKE MISTAKES.

Now, the eyewitness is usually a frind/relative of the victim
AND DUE TO EMOTIONAL DISTRESS THEY SEE WHAT THEY
WANT TO SEE EVEN THOUGH IT ISN'T TRUE.
ALL THEY'RE REALLY INTERESTED ABOUT IS REVENGE
/JUSTICE. THEY JUST WANT TO SEE SOMEBODY PUNISHED.

Now, you go to trial and are found GUILTY even though
YOU ARE INNOCENT!!!! due to the eyewitnesses
testimony.

The appeals process is designed to MINIMIZE THE RISKS
OF PUNISHING AN INNOCENT MAN BY MISTAKE.
It is not just an "incovenience".

Its all said and good now to people like yourselves sitting
at home sipping a beer, but what about the innocent
man that HAS BEEN FALSELY CONVICTED FOR A
CRIME!!!!!!

HE HAS NO RECOURSE. How would you feel in his place?
Furthermore, imagine years later that new evidence is found
that COMPLETELY CLEARS HIm!!!!!

Could you live with yourself?

I'm with Matt on this one. Unless there is PHYSICAL/DIGITAL
/PHYSIOLOGICAL proof A PERSON SHOULD not
be convictes solely on the basis of an eyewitness
account.
People can be emotionally swayed/lie/cheat etc.. etc..
Machines cannot.

Whats the underlying principle behind YOUR OWN
US constitution?

FREEDOM.

So, you better make DAMN SURE you're right before
you take away somebodies freedom.
Freedom is the ESSENCE of a democratic society.
Violating this IMO opinion is the WORST CRIME
a person can make.

Godspeed












.

 

[Superfoot]

...It seems that the argument goes: "Well, they don't have alot to live for, so they really don't care if they are executed?' This is a BIG ASSUMPTION. ..

First of all, it has nothing to do with what they have to live for. The arguement is that many (not all) do what they have to, to live. If you didn't make enough to feed your family, you would be more likely to steal regardless of the consequences.

Secondly, I'm not making big assumptions, I've been there. I've also spoken to some of the people living there and it's just a VERY different place. To make a good comparison, many other variables have to be equal, however, when the motivation to do the crime is different, there is a completely different mindset.