Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I like Nelsons PCT.
Poll which pct is better no bs here this will show the results
- Thread starter jrlean
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sonicwaste
New member
We are starting to beat a dead horse here guys.
Once and for all, there is no better PCT, there is no best PCT. It doesn't exist.
All that exists are options... And you have to find what works best for you.
When I started juicing no one was using nolva or clomid... At least I never heard of anyone talking about it at the time. This was not so long ago in the distant past... 10 years ago or so... I am sure there were people using nolva and clomid, but I had never known anyone until a few years later... Maybe around the early 2000's is when I first heard people talking about using Nolva and Clomid for PCT... But then again Elitefitness was in its beginning stages, online message boards were in their beginning stages. We didn't have people out there in cyberspace to help us figure things out. We didn't have good guys like Nelson.
There weren't a whole lot of ways to connect with fellow juicers, and no ways to learn fro mistakes... other than to just make them yourself... and learn...
That being said... My first couple cycles... PCT was this: eat more, train harder, add some creatine, tribulus, etc. I was young then... stupid? yes... But we didn't know any better. And had very little to guide us. Anyone I knew who was juicing has the same mentality as far as PCT goes... We didn't even think of it in those ways.
Long story short, we didn't shrivel up and die in between cycles... I don't remember any sexual side effects or long winded recovery. We took AAS gained, came off and life went on.. We didn't sweat it. We didn't lose ALL our gains...
Fast forward a little while... People started talking about Clomid and Nolva for PCT...So I tried it, and for me the only difference wasn't in recovery... I didn't like the side effects. I didn't like how I felt.. and the first time I had negatively impacted libido. That being said... I started to know people who did believe in the beginnings of PCT.
Fast forward a little further... I started to hear about people running HCG during the cycle, so as to not atrophy... This was the best thing I had ever heard of at the time..> Totally made sense to me... Totally worked.
So what's my point? There were days long before my first days that people didn't have great PCT's... There wasn't a problem... But that doesn't mean anything today... Because PCT IS IMPORTANT. We just didn't have many options then and we didn't know any better. Just because I could recover under those circumstances doesn't mean it's a good idea to try it like that... Like I said WE DIDN'T HAVE THE OPTIONS AND WE DIDN'T KNOW ANY BETTER.
Now we have options. I like certain AAS cycles... I don't like certain AAS compounds... I respond well to things that other people may not respond well to. Other people respond to things that maybe I don't..
Same goes for PCT. Nolvadex and Clomid work great for some people... That is Awesome! Unleashed/Sustain/Post Cycle worked great for some people, Great!
No one is going to be able to tell you what's best for you. You have to try it for yourself. If you do a moderate cycle, recovery is easy... even if you don't do a PCT. Now, I am not recommending not to do PCT...
All I am saying is that try different things out... Are some of you guys really that freaked out about trying something new or being wrong?
If "Nelson's PCT" doesn't work for you, then don't use it. But don't knock it until you try it. If "Nolva/Clomid" doesn't work for you, then don't use it again and try something else.
We're debating peanut issues here. Yes you worked hard for your gains... If you lose 2.3lbs post cycle, who cares? Bust your ass again and make up for it... Bust your ass in your PCT instead of worrying about what drugs are going to help you keep the gains...
It's not the end of the world we are talking about here. Be smart about your use. Use HCG during a cycle, this for sure will make things easier afterwards...
Put the PCT argument to rest. Find out what works for you and keep doing it. If something doesn't work, don't use the product again.
But don't worry, your body wants to recover. Your body wants to achieve its sense of normalcy. Use what you can to curb the side effects of this process and whatever you can to speed the process up... That's it... If you lose a few LBS, so what, you'll gain it back, don't let your ego get in the way of finding the proper recovery. If your libido is jacked for a few weeks, that sucks... But unless you were irresponsible on cycle, you'll get your libido back. You will get your levels back in range eventually. Just please figure out what works for you instead of wondering and debating. There is no better way to find the right PCT than to just try it for yourself.
Sorry for the ranting post, but there's so many posts on the same thing. And it leads to arguing... Just learn what works for you and roll with it.
Once and for all, there is no better PCT, there is no best PCT. It doesn't exist.
All that exists are options... And you have to find what works best for you.
When I started juicing no one was using nolva or clomid... At least I never heard of anyone talking about it at the time. This was not so long ago in the distant past... 10 years ago or so... I am sure there were people using nolva and clomid, but I had never known anyone until a few years later... Maybe around the early 2000's is when I first heard people talking about using Nolva and Clomid for PCT... But then again Elitefitness was in its beginning stages, online message boards were in their beginning stages. We didn't have people out there in cyberspace to help us figure things out. We didn't have good guys like Nelson.
There weren't a whole lot of ways to connect with fellow juicers, and no ways to learn fro mistakes... other than to just make them yourself... and learn...
That being said... My first couple cycles... PCT was this: eat more, train harder, add some creatine, tribulus, etc. I was young then... stupid? yes... But we didn't know any better. And had very little to guide us. Anyone I knew who was juicing has the same mentality as far as PCT goes... We didn't even think of it in those ways.
Long story short, we didn't shrivel up and die in between cycles... I don't remember any sexual side effects or long winded recovery. We took AAS gained, came off and life went on.. We didn't sweat it. We didn't lose ALL our gains...
Fast forward a little while... People started talking about Clomid and Nolva for PCT...So I tried it, and for me the only difference wasn't in recovery... I didn't like the side effects. I didn't like how I felt.. and the first time I had negatively impacted libido. That being said... I started to know people who did believe in the beginnings of PCT.
Fast forward a little further... I started to hear about people running HCG during the cycle, so as to not atrophy... This was the best thing I had ever heard of at the time..> Totally made sense to me... Totally worked.
So what's my point? There were days long before my first days that people didn't have great PCT's... There wasn't a problem... But that doesn't mean anything today... Because PCT IS IMPORTANT. We just didn't have many options then and we didn't know any better. Just because I could recover under those circumstances doesn't mean it's a good idea to try it like that... Like I said WE DIDN'T HAVE THE OPTIONS AND WE DIDN'T KNOW ANY BETTER.
Now we have options. I like certain AAS cycles... I don't like certain AAS compounds... I respond well to things that other people may not respond well to. Other people respond to things that maybe I don't..
Same goes for PCT. Nolvadex and Clomid work great for some people... That is Awesome! Unleashed/Sustain/Post Cycle worked great for some people, Great!
No one is going to be able to tell you what's best for you. You have to try it for yourself. If you do a moderate cycle, recovery is easy... even if you don't do a PCT. Now, I am not recommending not to do PCT...
All I am saying is that try different things out... Are some of you guys really that freaked out about trying something new or being wrong?
If "Nelson's PCT" doesn't work for you, then don't use it. But don't knock it until you try it. If "Nolva/Clomid" doesn't work for you, then don't use it again and try something else.
We're debating peanut issues here. Yes you worked hard for your gains... If you lose 2.3lbs post cycle, who cares? Bust your ass again and make up for it... Bust your ass in your PCT instead of worrying about what drugs are going to help you keep the gains...
It's not the end of the world we are talking about here. Be smart about your use. Use HCG during a cycle, this for sure will make things easier afterwards...
Put the PCT argument to rest. Find out what works for you and keep doing it. If something doesn't work, don't use the product again.
But don't worry, your body wants to recover. Your body wants to achieve its sense of normalcy. Use what you can to curb the side effects of this process and whatever you can to speed the process up... That's it... If you lose a few LBS, so what, you'll gain it back, don't let your ego get in the way of finding the proper recovery. If your libido is jacked for a few weeks, that sucks... But unless you were irresponsible on cycle, you'll get your libido back. You will get your levels back in range eventually. Just please figure out what works for you instead of wondering and debating. There is no better way to find the right PCT than to just try it for yourself.
Sorry for the ranting post, but there's so many posts on the same thing. And it leads to arguing... Just learn what works for you and roll with it.
Very informative thanks.
Great post sonic. I think I've been speaking out against nlva and clomid for so long the message has gotten distorted.
For too long, people thought they were the answer. I even rememebr a time when some of the so called gurus right here said things along the lines of "you can't do too much clomid." The fact of the matter is, it isn;t very effective, the studies on it are unimpressive, and it has terrible sides. I've since found better options and want to share that with others.
Also, I believ dex helps PCt and had the resident experts blast me for recommending that.
Today, more and more people are showing their dissatisfaction with clomid and nolva. More and more people are responding well to the hcg, dex and supplements. So, what's the problem? Why are some people hell bent on making this an issue.
If you love nolva, use it. But don't use it indiscriminately. It has nasty sides, yet people think they're "playing it safe" by using it. Is it any wonder I get a little peeved when people jump down my throat for no other reason other than they think that the use of these outdated drugs are the holy grail?
I'm proud that I found a better alternative. It's healthier, more effective and less expensive. So try it. EVEN if you like nolva, adding hcg and UNLEASHED can only help.
It's pretty simple. I'm not sure how it got to be such a big debate, other than old habits die hard.
For too long, people thought they were the answer. I even rememebr a time when some of the so called gurus right here said things along the lines of "you can't do too much clomid." The fact of the matter is, it isn;t very effective, the studies on it are unimpressive, and it has terrible sides. I've since found better options and want to share that with others.
Also, I believ dex helps PCt and had the resident experts blast me for recommending that.
Today, more and more people are showing their dissatisfaction with clomid and nolva. More and more people are responding well to the hcg, dex and supplements. So, what's the problem? Why are some people hell bent on making this an issue.
If you love nolva, use it. But don't use it indiscriminately. It has nasty sides, yet people think they're "playing it safe" by using it. Is it any wonder I get a little peeved when people jump down my throat for no other reason other than they think that the use of these outdated drugs are the holy grail?
I'm proud that I found a better alternative. It's healthier, more effective and less expensive. So try it. EVEN if you like nolva, adding hcg and UNLEASHED can only help.
It's pretty simple. I'm not sure how it got to be such a big debate, other than old habits die hard.
Last edited:
sonicwaste
New member
Remember also, part of the draw towards the never PCT supplements is the fact that they help overcome side effects while the body attempts to find homeostasis.
HCG/HMG is something I believe should be a staple of every cycle. It's so cheap, it's silly not to use it... Keeps your testes either completely full or close to completely full. Stimulates LH and and fools your body into thinking it never stopped making its own LH. This is so important to HPTA recovery. Speeds things up definitely.
HCG/HMG is something I believe should be a staple of every cycle. It's so cheap, it's silly not to use it... Keeps your testes either completely full or close to completely full. Stimulates LH and and fools your body into thinking it never stopped making its own LH. This is so important to HPTA recovery. Speeds things up definitely.
needtogetaas
New member
exactly. There is so much more to pct then juust what nolva and clomid provide. So in the end I say regardless if you are going to use clomid and or nolva or not you should be adding more to your pct. I have seen the test recovery stack work for people. I have seen just nolva work for people. I have seen nolva and or clomid make people feel like crap. I have seen people use just sustain alpha and a little bit of clomid and love it. I have seen people use my forged post cycle and also sustain alpha and love it.
What I am getting at is I have seen all of it work in different ways for different people. Poeple see me recommend all kinds of different pct's for different people depending on the cycle they are on. And 99.99% of the time the advice I have given people walked away damn happy with it when they took it.
Clomid has its place and so does nolvadex. And for use to argue about it day in and day out is retarded.
I do have an agenda. I have had this agenda for a long time now. That agenda is to help everyone as best I can. To give them advice I know has worked for many.
I have said to many many people in pm's when asked is just nolva going to cover me for this cycles pct. Yes you will be fine bro. Of course I also say but you will feel a lot better if you add this or that and hey what ya know I was right.
I even try to remember each and ever members patterns and as much as I can about them as a person. I try to remember there past cycles and what has worked for them or has not.
Hey bro remember your last cycle you didn't do so well with that deca. I see you are running tren in this this cycle. I think you should make sure you have some dostinex and maybe run some provione in your cycle to. Don't run that nolva for pct. Run some unleashed and some sustain alpha. Throw in 25mg ed clomid to if you like. That would be much better for you this time.
It saddens me when I come here and I see threads with people arguing or at each other over something like this.
WHY?? OOOOO he has an agenda He has to push what the sponsors are selling. AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH hello take a look around you!!!!!!! ef sponsors sell clomid and nolva to and guess what ding ding ding I work for them.
So no my agenda is never to push away nolva and or clomid and that is not the agenda of any of the leaders of this forum. Because I am leading the leaders of the forum and they are for the most part just like me.
I work for elite its self, I work for every single sponsor here, I work for myself and most of all I work for the members. People have asked me fore discounts to places that are not even a sponsor of elite many time. Guess what I got them and I give them to anyone who asks.
All of this just disrupts a community. And its flat out retarded.
In this game we have all had out good pct's or bad pct's and our great pct's. We have all had a product we found we love and ones we do not care for. We have all found the cycles that work best for us and the ones that do not.
We all did it together for the most part. Some one helped some one who helped some one who helped the next guy.
In the end it all boils down to this. everyone here is getting a good understanding of steroids,pct,ai's and the whole nine yards. Everyone here learns from each other. And in the end everyone ends up finding what works great for them.
So when you think about it like that. What is there left to complain about? What that nelson told so and so to use Aromasin,unleadhed and sustain for pct? Are you going to tell me that is not going to work? well it all depends but I can tell you this. I have seen it work for many people. And anyone here (even you hayez and you to future and others who have been around a wile) have also seen it work for people. You can not deny the fact that it has worked for many people. Nor can anyone deny the fact that just clomid worked for this guy or that guy or a friend of a friend.
Shamless plugs???? NO maybe some times but for the most part ADVICE GIVEN FROM A FRIEND. Or from some one who has been around a wile and seen it work.
I mean even hayez You are in this thread
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/bodybuilding-supplements/sustain-alpha-review-590899.html
and this thread
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/sustain-alpha-review-update-594728.html
And look who else is in these threads 1500,njmuscleguy,GUARDIAN (rip) and many others.
Its threads like this I like to see. Where people realize hey I just found something better or something that works great for me. Hayez was and is a nolva/clomid lover for life. But he took the advice of some one and used something different. What was the end result for him? Something better!!!
What they hell is wrong with that.
There is many other threads where people have used many different types of pct. Some of them worked for them and some of them did not. Some where better and some where not.
Here on ef we are always helping each other to grow and reach that point where we have all found what works best for us. that is what we do here. If you do not think so then maybe you got your eyes closed or something.
Lets get over this shit already. The product do work.
needtogetaas
New member
and truthfully you could have added like 20 different pct's to that list depending on all kinds of different cycles.
sonicwaste
New member
If I don't decide to go on HRT after my cut cycle is done... I will most definitely post my bloodwork.
Providing, I don't do HRT... My PCT will be: Unleashed, Sustain Alpha, Forged PC, Post Cycle, Aromasin. I will have run HCG throughout the cycle.
Providing, I don't do HRT... My PCT will be: Unleashed, Sustain Alpha, Forged PC, Post Cycle, Aromasin. I will have run HCG throughout the cycle.
