Hello Pro-Choice!!

[MattTheSkywalker]

if a woman does not want to raise a child, i don't think she should be forced to BY LAW into giving birth. like these kids, there are too many unwanted children already in this world that need good, decent homes.

you're not following my logic by saying that poor people shouldn't be allowed to have kids. people that don't want to RAISE children should not be giving BIRTH to children.

a poor family can still raise a child in a loving and caring environment.

babies don't come from the stork. I don't want a child. So I make sure I don't get women pregnant.

No woman is ever forced into giving birth. ever.

 

[hellboy]

Firstly, I don't think it is valid at all to simply claim that abortion is "a personal decision". That is the thesis, and you need to make points to support it.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. This is not a formal debate about a cut-and-dried topic. This is a highly emotional issue that will never be resolved. Ever. Even if it's eventually made illegal it will still be done behind closed doors and will still be argued by lawmakers and lobbyists until it's made legal again and then it will still be argued until it's illegal again. Etc.

Secondly, the womens' rights angle is best kept in another argument.

Once again I disagree. To many people the woman's right to choose is at the center of this argument. To others its ethical/moral reasons. To yet others it's your next (below) quoted point. All of them must be considered.

Thirdly, this issue hinges on two major points of variation:
1. definition of a person under the ethics of the state and/or society
2. balance between historically objective and subjective motivation and definition

See above.

 

[Shak]

No woman is ever forced into giving birth. ever.

suppose abortion is made illegal. suppose a woman is raped and becomes pregnant. suppose she doesn't want this baby.

if she's a law-abiding citizen, wouldn't this force her into giving birth?

 

[IHateBrolies]

2Thick mentioned "cost to society". I just wanted to put his remarks in context.

If you've read the Constitution at all, you'd see that it provides for the safeguard of individual rights, not societal good.

I also know that, barring the direct infringement of peoples' rights, the good of society/groups/interests can and will be a deciding factor in policymaking and voting.

 

[Dial_tone]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. This is not a formal debate about a cut-and-dried topic. This is a highly emotional issue that will never be resolved. Ever. Even if it's eventually made illegal it will still be done behind closed doors and will still be argued by lawmakers and lobbyists until it's made legal again and then it will still be argued until it's illegal again. Etc.



Once again I disagree. To many people the woman's right to choose is at the center of this argument. To others its ethical/moral reasons. To yet others it's your next (below) quoted point. All of them must be considered.



See above.

Greatest post ever.

 

[hellboy]

if a woman does not want to raise a child, i don't think she should be forced to BY LAW into giving birth...

Absolutely.

Edit - I mean absolutely as in great point. Not absolutely as in she absolutely should be forced to have the baby.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

suppose abortion is made illegal. suppose a woman is raped and becomes pregnant. suppose she doesn't want this baby.

if she's a law-abiding citizen, wouldn't this force her into giving birth?

If I were king, in cases of demonstrable/prosecuted rape, I would allow abortions. I'd have to - a system of laws fails as soon as someone breaks them, if there is not a redress of consequences.

My understanding (and it is signifcant) of this medical issue is that the trauma of rape makes conception extremely unlikely. It;s kind of a red herring in this argument.

To be fair, partial birth abortion is also a red herring. They comprise an extremely small percentage of all abortions, yet are always harped on by anti-abortion people.

 

[john937]

While I agree late term abortion is at best disgusting,
it is missleading to think late term abortions are performed just because someone whimsically decided they didn't want to be a parent.
For the most part late term abortions are performed on defective/deformed pregnancies
that can't be detected early on,
for example aborting a Downs-Syndrome baby.

 

[IHateBrolies]

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. This is not a formal debate about a cut-and-dried topic. This is a highly emotional issue that will never be resolved. Ever. Even if it's eventually made illegal it will still be done behind closed doors and will still be argued by lawmakers and lobbyists until it's made legal again and then it will still be argued until it's illegal again. Etc.

People can be emotional all they want. But if they don't present valid arguments, then they are just basically screaming.

To clarify, I am just asking people to argue *why* abortion is a personal choice, and not suppose it a priori. Otherwise, to me, it looks like a pissing contest.

Once again I disagree. To many people the woman's right to choose is at the center of this argument. To others its ethical/moral reasons. To yet others it's your next (below) quoted point. All of them must be considered.

Ok good point. In my view, more fundamental questions supercede this angle. But that is obviously just my view.

 

[MattTheSkywalker]

no, this is silly. abortion is a woman's issue. period.

Not if legislation is involved it isn't. And if taxpayer dollars are used to fund it (they are) then it is not a single gender issue.