RipStone's 5x5-GFH journal

[RipStone]

Just to clarify, the point of my post wasn't to criticize your request for help and say "do it yourself, dammit"; the whole point of this forum is to let people share information and advice. I was just trying to get you away from any remnants of the notion that the only way to approach training is to apply the exact thing someone else did. Ultimately, even though a lot can be gleaned from reading someone's journal, there's only so much that we can know about stuff like nuances of form or subjective impressions of how a set or workout felt that might affect what's best for you.

MC and AB are saying similar things, I think. The "break" wouldn't be a complete cessation of lifting, which is what AB was cautioning against, it'd be a deload.

Oh, and given that a lot of us are non-plat members, would you be able to throw the pic up on pufile or some other external host?

My bad. I guess I came off as a bit of an ass. I completley understood what you were saying and that is exactly how I intrepeted it. You just put it into a lot better words than I did

I see. So I need to deload. So now what I will do is write a program based on the expiernce I gained via SF 5x5. The program will be will be similar to what AB suggested, but tailored towards my individual needs. Moreover, I will start the program with a deload(or ramping the weights up from below what my current RMs are).

I dont get it man? You cant get your microscope out to look at my pics? I am not a platnium member either BTW. Here is a link to a putfile.com page. I havent used this site before so I hope this works..

http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=1/1816055989.jpg&s=x11

EDIT: As I was typing this and getting the pic uploaded I got Madcow's reply. So again I am confussed(I sound like an idiot but I am not). So I dont I reset the loads now and I just use 3 sets of doubles after warming up suffiecently and continue following the orginal SF 5x5 program??? (breath...)

 

[Madcow2]

Also keep in mind that when you are struggling and crawling along in sets of 5, a 1 rep increase has a lot more value than you think.


100x4 = 400
100x5 = 500
25% increase in work performed during the set

100x4 yields a 1RM of 109.1
100x5 yields a 1RM of 112.5
Basically 3% increase on a 1RM

It's important to realize that progress just doesn't come in leaps and bounds where you are PRing by 5lbs every week and not hitting the limit. Even 3 weeks of new PRs increasing by 2.5% is 102.50, 105.06, 107.68. That's 7.68% on your lifts. That's great even if you spent 4 weeks scaling. I don't know many who wouldn't trade 7 weeks total for an 8% increase on their lifts.

I think people see PR's all over the place and assume they are going to set them for most of the year and that's just not the case. Like I said, even that 1 rep has a nice impact on your 1RM so when it seems like you are crawling along, you are really still in the game.

 

[Madcow2]

EDIT: As I was typing this and getting the pic uploaded I got Madcow's reply. So again I am confussed(I sound like an idiot but I am not). So I dont I reset the loads now and I just use 3 sets of doubles after warming up suffiecently and continue following the orginal SF 5x5 program??? (breath...)

Only you can answer this. Are you really fatigued or is this just an off day or so (you did PR the military, your squat is moving from what I recall, the dead might be a sign of a problem). If you are still moving forward on most lifts, even at a crawl (like I illustrated above), you are fine, use a rep change or drop warm ups to keep your top sets going until your other lifts stall. If everything is stalled or you determine that fatigue is indeed an issue, you will have to reset and possibly take a light week in between if you think you will need it (i.e. what is the severity).

 

[Cynical Simian]

My bad. I guess I came off as a bit of an ass.

Haha, my concern was that I was the one who came off like an ass. Now that we've formally established that nobody misunderstood anything or took offense...

If you're unsure of your level of fatigue and how to proceed, don't try to make any dramatic changes with tomorrow's workout. After that, you'll have another data point on which to base your judgments and the weekend to assess things and determine what to do in the weeks ahead.

 

[RipStone]

Haha, my concern was that I was the one who came off like an ass. Now that we've formally established that nobody misunderstood anything or took offense...

If you're unsure of your level of fatigue and how to proceed, don't try to make any dramatic changes with tomorrow's workout. After that, you'll have another data point on which to base your judgments and the weekend to assess things and determine what to do in the weeks ahead.

Lol.

Thanks man, thats a good idea actually. The only problem is that if I am in a serious or approaching a state of fatigue, one more session might put me over the edge or at least have me hanging my a thread. I will see how I feel tommorow and then proceed from there.

Madcow- again, thanks for all your help. What you are saying makes perfect sense. I will play it be ear and use tommorows workout as a barometer for how to proceed in the upcoming weeks.

BTW, what did you guys think of the pics and did the putfie link work??

 

[Madcow2]

BTW, what did you guys think of the pics and did the putfie link work??

It worked. Very noticable increase in size. How many weeks between shots?

 

[RipStone]

It worked. Very noticable increase in size. How many weeks between shots?

Awsome! I am glad to hear that. It's hard to judge yourself, even when looking at pics.

The old pic, on the right,was taken on 10-25-05. The new shot, on the left, was taken today. So like 11-12 weeks.

EDIT: I meant 2005, not 2004.

 

[Madcow2]

Awsome! I am glad to hear that. It's hard to judge yourself, even when looking at pics.

The old pic, on the right,was taken on 10-25-04. The new shot, on the left, was taken today. So like 11-12 weeks.

10-25-05 (it's 2006 now as unbelievable as that is)

 

[nelmsjer]

Wow...this is my first time through reading this journal. There is a lot of great information here regarding what to do at the end of a run, as well as what truly qualifies as fatigue and overreaching. I have a question, though.

Madcow2, what is the theoretical training value of increasing the intensity and reducing the volume? We go from 5x5, to 3x3, and now you are suggesting 3x2 and 2x2? At this point, we are heavily in the neural ranges, so are we technically simultaneously deloading in the sarcoplasmic and sarcomeric ranges? Is that the actual purpose?

Subsequently (and theoretically), I can see that once the 2x2 stalls and the CNS is fatigued, we are jumping back into a deloaded 5x5. This deloaded 5x5 will serve to restore the CNS, as well as continue to restore any remaining fatigue in the sarcomeric and especially sarcoplasmic ranges. Is my understanding on this correct?

 

[Madcow2]

Wow...this is my first time through reading this journal. There is a lot of great information here regarding what to do at the end of a run, as well as what truly qualifies as fatigue and overreaching. I have a question, though.

Madcow2, what is the theoretical training value of increasing the intensity and reducing the volume? We go from 5x5, to 3x3, and now you are suggesting 3x2 and 2x2? At this point, we are heavily in the neural ranges, so are we technically simultaneously deloading in the sarcoplasmic and sarcomeric ranges? Is that the actual purpose?

Subsequently (and theoretically), I can see that once the 2x2 stalls and the CNS is fatigued, we are jumping back into a deloaded 5x5. This deloaded 5x5 will serve to restore the CNS, as well as continue to restore any remaining fatigue in the sarcomeric and especially sarcoplasmic ranges. Is my understanding on this correct?

You are getting 2 things mixed:

5x5=25 reps, 3x3 = 9 reps
So 5x5 at 85% (or 85lbs to be simple) = 2125lbs
And 3x3 at 90% (90lbs) = 810lbs

Much lower workload and this is what allows for recovery in deloading. What we are doing is allowing intensity to rise (but volume is slashed and maybe frequency lowered) but intensity is not enough to offset the slash in volume.

What I've suggested above is actually the same volume or just 1 more rep (i.e. 5 reps vs. 3x2 = 5 reps). The intensity will be constant at first but the doubles will give him a margin to increase it as the reps are spread out. Keep in mind that all heavy weights have a big neural emphasis but the reason why they say they are bad or not good for hypertrophy is because of low workload implied in using very high intensities (i.e. you can't do a lot of work with very heavy weight - it's an inverse relationship). Here we keep workload constant and intensity is the same as what was used in 5 reps (I'm just making it easier on him by manipulating with time and breaking the reps appart). This will not be deloading, will probably push him further into fatigue as it will allow him to do more. That's why he needs to figure out if he is indeed overreaching or not. Maybe read through some of my posts and Biggt's in this thread as it goes into more detail and specifically why Waterbury's 10 sets of 3 program is very good for hypertrophy despite it using triples which are traditionally thought of as neural: http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?t=453191