RipStone's 5x5-GFH journal

[Madcow2]

Identifying your lower back as a weak point in the squat is pretty key (I'm thinking dedicating some effort to goodmornings here). Knowing where and why you fail on the bench is something else good to know.

Anyway, one option for extending a run a bit is to decrease volume and accessory work and/or lower the target reps (maybe 2x3 or 1x3) and push on that for a couple more weeks. That's an option that's given people a bit of breathing room. That said, you just canned the squat and are worried about weak links like the lower back. I'd sit back and reflect. Set up a program and begin again. Maybe that's a WSB template, maybe that's another "5x5" but with different reps range or a tad more work at the top end i.e. 2 or 3 sets of 5 with top weight which will give you more work with heavier weight and probably build some better core conditioning. I'd certainly look at goodmornings and even making them a core emphasis. You could also try changing the rep ranges to 3, 8, 10 or whatever. There's a lot of ways you can go, you're essentially a white canvas with some basic shape tracings on it, what you decide to make of it is up to you.

 

[RipStone]

Identifying your lower back as a weak point in the squat is pretty key (I'm thinking dedicating some effort to goodmornings here). Knowing where and why you fail on the bench is something else good to know.

Anyway, one option for extending a run a bit is to decrease volume and accessory work and/or lower the target reps (maybe 2x3 or 1x3) and push on that for a couple more weeks. That's an option that's given people a bit of breathing room. That said, you just canned the squat and are worried about weak links like the lower back. I'd sit back and reflect. Set up a program and begin again. Maybe that's a WSB template, maybe that's another "5x5" but with different reps range or a tad more work at the top end i.e. 2 or 3 sets of 5 with top weight which will give you more work with heavier weight and probably build some better core conditioning. I'd certainly look at goodmornings and even making them a core emphasis. You could also try changing the rep ranges to 3, 8, 10 or whatever. There's a lot of ways you can go, you're essentially a white canvas with some basic shape tracings on it, what you decide to make of it is up to you.

Thanks for the advice Madcow. Always appreciated. "I'd sit back and reflect."....I will take this to and try and put something together for the next few days. Maybe even get it done tommorow cus I am on break and dont have much else to do

 

[Cynical Simian]

Rip, sorry if this constitutes a pseudo-hijack...

MC, where would you recommend incorporating good mornings into the SF program? FYI, hypers are the one thing in the program that my power rack/bench setup has prevented me from including, if that would affect placement.

 

[asdfzxcv]

I think I need to to work on my posterior chain/abs too as they seem to be a glaring weakness for me too.I think I still have some mileage left in my squat but I dont really want to tread to far with such weakness.I think that 8weeks on westside wont hurt at all,although it would be quite a change from what I am currently doing(5x5).

I will follow this thread and see what people recommend to you,good luck with whatever you choose .

 

[Madcow2]

Goodmornings are always a great exercise, they are just fairly taxing so you need to account for them. You could also do stiff or romanian deads or hold a plate against your chest and perform a similar motion. If you are going to do some light conditioning work with them then they can replace hypers, if you are going to do them somewhat seriously put in a couple of sets of modest weight 1-2x per week maybe and depending on your tolerance drop some other stuff if need be (i.e. beach work first or maybe some of the light squatting on Wed). If you are going to really hammer at them like a core lift, you need to factor that in explicitly.

 

[RipStone]

CS- no need to aploligize at all. You are actually helping me gather info.

ASDFZ- thanks. good luck to you too.

MC2 and others- I was reading this...

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5466367&postcount=958

...and what Glenn/Madcow said was what I was eluding to before when I said this...

"Madcow always says that both SF and DF 5x5 are just "snapshots"* in a lifters long term progression. So, I dont think I need to run DF yet. But, what would be the next step if I wanted to continue with the Ripptoe/Pendaly/Madcow philosohpy of focusing on adding weight the the core lifts only in order to grow/get stronger? I remember reading something about doing 3x3 instead....ring a bell anyone?? I really enjoy this program and have made amazing gains with it, but I believe I need to go to the next level to contine progressing."

Anyway, specifally, what Glenn posted here got me thinking...

"there seem to be a lot of people who do the style of training we usually can "5 by 5" for a while, then wonder "whats next".

one general comment i would make, is that if this style of training has been successfull for you, why change it? and by style of training, im not talking about one specific program, but the general style of doing whole body exercises, training the whole body or at least most of the body in each workout, and doing multiple sets not taken to failure.

i do, however, understand the mental side... you do the same thing over and over and you want something different. there are lots of ways you can change things without totally changing to a "new" program. switching back and forth between widely differing types of training isnt that good of an idea... small and systematic changes over time in what you are doing however IS a good idea."

So the question is, would switching to WS constitute changin to a new program? (I would think it would). Or is it ok cus its still approaching training as systematiclly?

Regardless of if I decide to run WS or stick to the "5x5" methodololgy, I am not sure what to do with squats. I devised a 5x5-ish program, but it has me squatting 2x a week(monday and friday). The rep/sets are changed from SF 5x5 and I dropped Wed's squats. I am thinking that this would help. I dunno

Sorry for the lonnnnng post, but I am serious about training and what to try and do things right.

Thanks for reading this far if you did

 

[asdfzxcv]

I think even if you deviate from the ''5x5'' to a more westside type routine you will still be doing a better workout then 90% of the average gym patrons you see fumbling with 100sets of arm curls and bench presses .You can always can always pick up the original 5x5 when you feel like you are ready to commence it again.

 

[RipStone]

I think even if you deviate from the ''5x5'' to a more westside type routine you will still be doing a better workout then 90% of the average gym patrons you see fumbling with 100sets of arm curls and bench presses .You can always can always pick up the original 5x5 when you feel like you are ready to commence it again.

Haha, thats true.

Well, I put together a modified 5x5 to work on my weak areas. Let me know what you think guys.

Mon:
-squat 3x8, 2x3(prymaid to a max triple)
-bench press 5x5(same as SF 5x5)
-hammer-chins 5x5 (pyramid to a max set, like row with SF 5x5)
-good mornings 4x6(all sets done short of failure)
-abs 4 sets

Wed;
-conventional deadlifts 4x5(pyramid to a max set)*
-standing overhead press 3x8, 2x3(prymaid to a max triple)
-bent over BB rows 3x8 (all sets done short of failure)
-close-grip bench press 4x6 (all sets done short of failure)
-cable pull-throughs 2x8-12 (all sets done short of failure)

Fri:
-squat 3x8, 1x3, 1x10 (pyramid to a max triple, back-off set with same load as 2nd set)**
-bench press,4x5, 1x3, 1x8(same as SF 5x5)
-hammer-chins 4x5, 1x3, BW x as many as possible (pyramid to a max triple)
-rack pulls 3x8 (all sets done short of failure)
-tris/bis 3x8-12 (all sets done short of failure)

*I have been doing sumo deadlifts because I found this to be a stronger way to deadlifts for me, but I want to work on conventional deadlifts in order to help improve my back. Plus, I have been having some hip-flexor/hip discomfort (as noted in my journal) so I figured not doing sumo DLs would help relieve some of the discomfort.

** The triple I establish on Friday I will attempt to do 2 sets of(2x3) on next Monday’s workout. In order to help with this I will have a long rest period in-between both triple attempts/.

I will ramp the loads up so that I start setting new PR’s in week 3 or 4(just like with Madcow’s SF 5x5). Should I do this with just the core lifts (squat, bench, chins, deadlift, OH press) or should I do this will all the lifts (the assistance type work like rack pulls, GHRs, close-grip bench press, GMs, bent rows, tris/bis)?

 

[asdfzxcv]

Looks pretty decent to me,although you might want to get Madcow2's opinion as he will know how to modify it better then anyone else.

With the squats does it feel like your back is going to fold over with heavy weight on it?That is how mine tends to feel once the weight gets heavy.I am also curious as to your squat stance.Do you use a olympic(narrow) or powerlifter(wide) stance.I myself use the shoulder width olympic stance which I am comfortable with,but it feels like my glutes/hamstrings dont get worked very much at all,which could be part of my problem.

Sorry to rant on in your journal its just that we seem to have very similiar issues.

 

[RipStone]

Looks pretty decent to me,although you might want to get Madcow2's opinion as he will know how to modify it better then anyone else.

With the squats does it feel like your back is going to fold over with heavy weight on it?That is how mine tends to feel once the weight gets heavy.I am also curious as to your squat stance.Do you use a olympic(narrow) or powerlifter(wide) stance.I myself use the shoulder width olympic stance which I am comfortable with,but it feels like my glutes/hamstrings dont get worked very much at all,which could be part of my problem.

Sorry to rant on in your journal its just that we seem to have very similiar issues.

Yea, I am hoping Macdow chimes in too, but thanks for your opinion....it's appreciated.

I get that folding over feeling only onl heavy sets and when I am nearing my limit. For stance, I use a wide stance with my toes and knees pointed out. It definlet gets the glutes and hammies involved, but as a result there is less quad involvement compared to a narrower stance.

On a side note, I am gonna be lifting in a few hours. I think I will just go ahead with my proposed wed session and try to find my RMs for some of those lifts.