How many 1/2-ton gutbusters will it take before the shirts are removed from PL?

[the koala]

i apologize a priori for the following polemic and rhetoric question, but how comes nobody ever complains about squat suits?

sorry for that

anyways, considering my training history i can't give a qualified statement on the subject on a non-metaphysical level, on a metaphysical level i try to give my opinion

first of all, i can't quite understand your motivation behind this post, kethnaab
it is not yourself lying below 1/2 a ton of weight and risking possible death, it's other guys, and nobody is forcing you to do the same

second, somehow i have the idea that in this discussion the whole 'free will' (however you may define that) idea is lost
i do not think, although i could be wrong here, that the people wearing those hardcore shirts are forced to do so,
they do it by personal choice and i'm pretty sure they know about the risks,

personally i think that the question 'is gear good or bad' doesn't lead to useful answers, because gear just is 'there'
and like someone already mentioned - there are multiple feds with different rules

the problem however is, i think, that the biggest numbers get most publicity
nobody cares about some dude raising the world record by something like 2,5kgs when some other dude is lifting 1000+ pounds somewhere (sorry about yet another polemic statement, however this is rather a question about human motivation rather then powerlifting as a sport)

i for myself don't use gear, all i use is a belt, wrist and kneewraps,
but would i be in the position of being able to handle such hardcore gear, and having the chance of taking a shot at 1000+ pounds, even if i might puncture my lung and die trying, i surely would do it
and thinking about the mere technical possibility of designing a shirt which can support 1000+ pounds is just awesome from the concept alone, i think

i got a little off topic,
i can't really understand all the discussions about bench shirts or not, simply because i think that it all comes down to personal choice and being able to take responsibility for what you do and the risks you are putting yourself under

powerlifting in combination with the gear, i like it, i'm not using gear because i don't consider myself ready yet, and i know that i will never be using those hardcore shirts/suits those 5% at the top of the world are using,
but i plan to use gear someday


just my 2 cents,
i apologize if any of my statements were offensive in any way, it wasn't meant that way

 

[plifter]

I've competed in powerlifting for 17 years (damn, that makes me sound old, I'm only 33). The bench press equipment is absolutely absurd now. I've been to the WPO bench meet at the Arnold and it's like the pro wrestling version of bench pressing. I saw Rychlak 2 yrs ago get crushed by 800 on his opener. He didn't even move it half an inch. It fell straight to his stomach and sunk in. The spotters had to lift about 250 pounds each to get it off him. So what does he do after missing that bad? He comes back with 840 for his second attempt. He made a few adjustments to the shirt and suddenly he blasts it straight up!

 

[kethnaab]

i apologize a priori for the following polemic and rhetoric question, but how comes nobody ever complains about squat suits?

many people do. I don't complain nearly as loudly though, because if you can get underneath 1200 lbs and move it, fuckin' A. The suit helps you lift it, but that's still 1200 lbs you're supporting.

THe lifting portion of it is bogus, but I can at least show some respect to a crazy bastid with that much weight sitting on his shoulders.

first of all, i can't quite understand your motivation behind this post, kethnaab
it is not yourself lying below 1/2 a ton of weight and risking possible death, it's other guys, and nobody is forcing you to do the same

I am a fan of Mendy's, and I was a bit ticked when I saw 1/2 ton drop onto his ribs. I also am a fan of powerlifting, and trying to explain to a non-fan of powerlifting about the shirts and suits and groove briefs just gets ridiculous.

Are you a fan of baseball? If not, this won't make any sense whatsoever, but if you are, imagine if the ML allowed aluminum bats into the game?

May as well kiss every hitting record good-bye. Babe Ruth will never have existed, and that would be a shame, in my eyes. If you're a fan of sports, you have a genuine interest in what you feel is best for the sport, and I have a genuine interest in maintaining SOME level of tradition.

What if they decided to allow lifters to do the deadlift from knee level instead of the floor? would that irk you? All those old deadlift records would be obliterated. Ed Coan? pffffttt...pussy, he only deadlifted 4.5x his bodyweight. The bench shirt is the same thing. Mendy couldn't get 1/2 a ton to touch his chest (But it sure did touch nicely once it "fell out of the shirt's groove")

Hey, I have a great idea, let's allow swimmers to wear flippers! Let's allow bicycle racers to stick a motor on their cycles! Let's allow runners to wear roller blades!

second, somehow i have the idea that in this discussion the whole 'free will' (however you may define that) idea is lost
i do not think, although i could be wrong here, that the people wearing those hardcore shirts are forced to do so, they do it by personal choice and i'm pretty sure they know about the risks,

understood and agreed about the risks, but they do NOT have a choice as to whether to wear the equipment or not.

Do you want to get embarassed? Don't wear the gear, and your raw 650 lb benchpress, which is ASSKICKING, gets laughed off stage by the guy 40 lbs lighter than you who destroys that with his double breasted bouncy-bouncy rubbersuit.

thinking about the mere technical possibility of designing a shirt which can support 1000+ pounds is just awesome from the concept alone, i think[/koala]

agreed. but designer shirts have nothing whatsoever to do with lifting. The lifter should be more important than the equipment, and that is no longer the case.

 

[fortunatesun]

I've not seen the latest generation shirts. But I keep thinking back to a video from elitefts. I saw explaining proper (raw) bench press technique. They talked about how to find the spot after lifting off where the bar feels lightest- this of course becoming the point of descent. What can a shirt do but but keep everything in proper alignment? So Rychlak makes 840 after adjusting his shirt. In my mind he's still lifting 840 pounds. You could say he's receiving assistance, but couldn't you also just say he's lifting smarter: he's now able to keep his form commited to the way he's going to maximize his ability?

Am I correct here or is there more to this than I know about(which I'm sure there is )?

 

[kethnaab]

I've not seen the latest generation shirts. But I keep thinking back to a video from elitefts. I saw explaining proper (raw) bench press technique. They talked about how to find the spot after lifting off where the bar feels lightest- this of course becoming the point of descent. What can a shirt do but but keep everything in proper alignment? So Rychlak makes 840 after adjusting his shirt. In my mind he's still lifting 840 pounds. You could say he's receiving assistance, but couldn't you also just say he's lifting smarter: he's now able to keep his form commited to the way he's going to maximize his ability?

Am I correct here or is there more to this than I know about(which I'm sure there is )?

what you're missing is that the shirts are made of a material that is strong enough and tight enough to prevent 1000 lbs from touching the powerlifter's chest.

What's the point of touching the bar to the chest if you (the lifter) aren't moving the weight?

granted, you gotta have the triceps strength to lock it out, but 1/2 ton not touching the chest because of a shirt?

WTF, are we lifting weights here or are we engaged in a fashion show? The shirt shouldn't matter, the lifter's strength should.

 

[fortunatesun]

I admit that's alot of support... Guess I have to try one out so I can see for myself. No sense being too ignorant to have a usefull opinion.

 

[kethnaab]

the argument is that it protects the shoulder.

except you can get as much protection of the shoulder using a much smaller single ply shirt that isn't as tight. You get maybe 30 or 40 lbs on your bench, but big deal. That's nothing compared to what a guy like Rych gets....in the neighborhood of 350+

 

[wnt2bBeast]

Come on man....

Your entitled to your opinion but you've pretty much expressed in earlier posts that no one will ever be as strong as Coan or Kazmier...

This is not apples to apples, now they have bench only, push pull and single ply shirts that are three times as strong at least as anything produced in the 80's or 90's.

If you want to HATE on all of this crap... go to a different forum becuz it's already fallen on deaf ears around here... remember Roger Maris and Mark Mcguire and Barry Bonds...

come on...it just ain't the same....

Amen..i get tired of this fuggin argument from assnozzles in my gym as well

I dont think we have any WPO lifters who post on this board do we?? Until then worry about your own bench shirted or not before casting stones

Just a hypottheitcal question i bought a metal viking shirt well over a year ago..now since my my last meet in Oct ive added roughly 80lbs to my bench using THE SAME EXACT SHIRT (not a new one the same one i had a year ago) are you going to tell me I DIDNT GET STRONGER..bear in mind im a natural lifter as well so its not drug related

That is the 1 point non shirted lifters never seem to comprehend..yeah sihrts are shirts, yes shirts help yes shirts are better today then they were years ago but in order to INCREASE ur shirted Bench you STILL NEED TO GET STRONGER..what the fuck is so hard to understand about that?????????

ket i understand you arent flaming but bear in mind you come as someone who is knocking people who use shirts..it takes time/practice and believe it or not STRENGTH to learn and master a shirt..im not flaming you either but it just gets a lil tiresome

 

[plifter]

I've not seen the latest generation shirts. But I keep thinking back to a video from elitefts. I saw explaining proper (raw) bench press technique. They talked about how to find the spot after lifting off where the bar feels lightest- this of course becoming the point of descent. What can a shirt do but but keep everything in proper alignment? So Rychlak makes 840 after adjusting his shirt. In my mind he's still lifting 840 pounds. You could say he's receiving assistance, but couldn't you also just say he's lifting smarter: he's now able to keep his form commited to the way he's going to maximize his ability?

Am I correct here or is there more to this than I know about(which I'm sure there is )?

Yeah, there's a lot more to it. Sure, there are groove spots for everyone on their bench. However, if the lifters tried the same weight and hit the same groove spot without the shirt, they would still fail miserably. There's more to it than keeping a lifter in his groove. Basically, it's reached a point where these 1000 pound benchers are getting 250 pounds or more out of their shirt.

The way I look at the bench shirt issue is by comparing the records to the squat and deadlift. Have squat and deadlift records shot up so dramatically in recent years? There have been some big squats recently but the increases aren't as dramatic as the bench. Deadlift records seem to be pretty stagnant. If lifters were really getting so much stronger, wouldn't deadlift records be rising as well?

 

[plifter]

Just another thought; 900 pound deadlifts are still very rare. I think the number of 900 pound benchers is catching up with the deadlifters.