How many 1/2-ton gutbusters will it take before the shirts are removed from PL?

[Devastation]

Yeah, there's a lot more to it. Sure, there are groove spots for everyone on their bench. However, if the lifters tried the same weight and hit the same groove spot without the shirt, they would still fail miserably. There's more to it than keeping a lifter in his groove. Basically, it's reached a point where these 1000 pound benchers are getting 250 pounds or more out of their shirt.

The way I look at the bench shirt issue is by comparing the records to the squat and deadlift. Have squat and deadlift records shot up so dramatically in recent years? There have been some big squats recently but the increases aren't as dramatic as the bench. Deadlift records seem to be pretty stagnant. If lifters were really getting so much stronger, wouldn't deadlift records be rising as well?

one reason deadlift records aren't rising nearly as fast is it is the 3rd and final lift. most guys are spent by the time it comes to deadlift at a meet

also there are no deadlift meets, (yes i know there are push/pull meets) as you have to have a 3 lift total to have your record recognized. there are bench only meets, but those are bench only records also

and fyi, the current deadlift record was set about 6 weeks ago , so yes it IS rising

 

[plifter]

one reason deadlift records aren't rising nearly as fast is it is the 3rd and final lift. most guys are spent by the time it comes to deadlift at a meet

I don't buy this as a reason. It's always been the third lift as far back as I can remember. Therefore, if being the last lift causes the amount lifted to be lower, it would have been lower the same amount in the past as it is currently. If lifters are 50% stronger today, the deadlift records would be 50% greater. If records on the pull increased as proportionally as the bench, some bastard would have pulled 1300 lbs by now!

 

[fortunatesun]

Still, I'd have to say that bench only meets are one reason the records are rising. Since it's the most popular of the three, you have groups like Metal Militia gearing their training strictly for bench press. Of course these records are going to rise fastest.

 

[kethnaab]

one reason deadlift records aren't rising nearly as fast is it is the 3rd and final lift. most guys are spent by the time it comes to deadlift at a meet

also there are no deadlift meets, (yes i know there are push/pull meets) as you have to have a 3 lift total to have your record recognized. there are bench only meets, but those are bench only records also

and fyi, the current deadlift record was set about 6 weeks ago , so yes it IS rising

oh, c'mon now. I have tons of respect for you and your abilities, but I think we all know that is a load.

how tough is it for a puller to do easy first lifts on the squat/bench, pass on the 2nd and 3rd lift, and save it all for the pull?

and yeah, Garry Heisey had, what, a 932 pull....18 years ago (close, maybe 930 16 years ago or something, whatever)? and now the record is 970.

so in the last 15 years, the deadlift record has gone up by 40 lbs.

the bench press record has gone up by 300+ lbs
the squat record by almost 200 lbs.

and it has nothing whatsoever to do with deadlifts being last in the competitition.

Rych is a strong mofo. and Gregg Valentino was pretty damn big. no one denies either of these facts.

now since my my last meet in Oct ive added roughly 80lbs to my bench using THE SAME EXACT SHIRT (not a new one the same one i had a year ago) are you going to tell me I DIDNT GET STRONGER

you've added 80 lbs to your bench since October when you first got the shirt.

could be strength added to your triceps. could be that you've found the groove in your new shirt better. could be both.

if i add 100 lbs to my rack deadlift from the knees, that means I've gotten stronger too, right?

If I add 100 lbs to my half-squat, that means I've gotten stronger too, right?

not trying to be a dick, and I'm not trying to undermine the work that people who use equipment put into their workouts. I know it seems that way, but I'm not.

but when the world bench press "record" is more than the deadlift record, then something is wrong, period. No one can tell me different, and you can claim "last lift in the comp" or whatever you want, but in the end, it boils down to this.

The gear does part of the lifting for you. It does. You can't deny it, it does. Whether you think that is proper or not is irrelevant to the discussion.

Today's bench press shirts are providing 300+ lbs to the baddest benchers in thew orld, and in Rych's case, possibly 400 lbs. That is fucking retarded. God bless them for having the nuts to lie underneath half a ton, but nonetheless, the shirt does 30% of the weight for them.

I wonder what the deadlift record would be if Benni could do a rack deadlift from his knees?

 

[plifter]

I'm not trying to dis anyone's accomplishments either. I lift in contests with equipment. However, the most I've yet to get out of a shirt is about 30 lbs. Wraps and squat suit give me about 60 pounds.

 

[kethnaab]

single ply bench shirts that give 30 or 40 lbs or whatever are fine. It could easily be argued that a belt gives far more than that, but it is obvious that the function of the belt is to keep the spine aligned properly and it is VERY reasonable to use one for safety purposes.

a single ply shirt that is supportive enough to increase your bench by maybe 30 or so pounds, but that still allows you to bring an unloaded bar to your own chest is going to keep the shoulder nice and stable and tight, and serve a "protective" function without lifting 30% of the weight for you.

The entire purpose of the pause is to remove the kinetic energy from the lift, forcing you to "explode" off the chest.

HA. Who needs to explode when you have a pile of double-ply denim that will explode for you? Granted, it takes a team of 3 approximately 10-20 minutes to get that denim on the lifter, and then you still have to try to lower the bar to the chest (which is always a challenge, eh?)

Kinda fucked up, isn't it? The hardest part of the bench press is now finding the shirt's groove so you can actually bring the bar down to touch your chest?

It used to be that the hardest part of the bench press was actually lifting the weight...

What i don't get is how so many people get laughed and ridiculed because they will bounce the weight off their chest and claim that it was a good lift. Or guys that stop 2 or 3 inches from their chests and claim that it was a good lift.

In fact, there is a thread somewhere about "bench pressing faux pas" or whatever, and the bouncing and/or not lowering all the way are both considered the 2 worst "cardinal sins" of benching.

Someone explain to me how that is any different than wearing a bench press shirt that essentially bounces the weight for you?

I'll tell you the difference. A bench press shirt artificially inflates the bench press a whole helluva lot more than bouncing the bar off your chest does.

 

[Devastation]

oh, c'mon now. I have tons of respect for you and your abilities, but I think we all know that is a load.

how tough is it for a puller to do easy first lifts on the squat/bench, pass on the 2nd and 3rd lift, and save it all for the pull?

and yeah, Garry Heisey had, what, a 932 pull....18 years ago (close, maybe 930 16 years ago or something, whatever)? and now the record is 970.

so in the last 15 years, the deadlift record has gone up by 40 lbs.

the bench press record has gone up by 300+ lbs
the squat record by almost 200 lbs.
?

the bench has went up 300 lbs in the last 15 yrs? your saying in 1991 that the world bench press record was 537lbs? lmao

first, if you're going to compare lifts to lifts, do it in a full meet perspective. single lift records are just that. and if you honestly think the deadlift being last in a meet doesn't affect what that record stands at, you need to compete and find out

second, NOBODY here is arguing that equipment in the bench and squat greatly enhances those numbers lifters are putting up. NOBODY so quit beating that dead horse

third, about someone sandbagging their first two lifts to save some gas in the tank for the deadlift is highly frowned upon in powerlifting. any top level respectable lifter is going to go for their best total at a meet, because that is what wins the trophies, not a state, national or world record in the deadlift. who wants to be remembered as the idiot who did token attempts at their first two lifts to break a record on the last lift? i know i wouldn't

fourth, the world bench press record is a full 130 lbs below the world deadlift record. oh you're not comparing the full meet bench to the deadlift? why not? maybe you should compare the single lift deadlift record to the fullmeet bench record. oh wait there is no single deadlift record

you're twisting shit to make your arguement sound valid. putting spin on an important topic such as equipment creates unnecessary negativity for our sport. new lifters looking to get into powerlifting could easily be turned off by reading comments by people saying pl'ing has become a joke, or others saying it is wwe bound, or that ANYONE can put on a bench shirt and bench 600 lbs. the truth is equipment is now just another piece of the puzzle one has to solve in order to stay competitive. like everyone has already said, there are many different federations that should cater to exactly what it is you want or believe powerlifting should be

and wtf is with the greg valentino reference. what does synthol have to do with pl'ing? i'm quickly losing sight of what your point is here

 

[kethnaab]

the bench has went up 300 lbs in the last 15 yrs? your saying in 1991 that the world bench press record was 537lbs? lmao

*scratches head*

Rych hit a 1015 this year, yes? Ken Lain hit 715 in 1990, yes?

first, if you're going to compare lifts to lifts, do it in a full meet perspective. single lift records are just that. and if you honestly think the deadlift being last in a meet doesn't affect what that record stands at, you need to compete and find out

I have. My point was NOT that the pull coming last has no affect. My point is that in order to get the pull to count, the lifter only has to qualify with 1 squat and 1 bench, and those 2 lifts don't need to be much of anything. Remember Garry Heisey?

third, about someone sandbagging their first two lifts to save some gas in the tank for the deadlift is highly frowned upon in powerlifting. any top level respectable lifter is going to go for their best total at a meet, because that is what wins the trophies, not a state, national or world record in the deadlift. who wants to be remembered as the idiot who did token attempts at their first two lifts to break a record on the last lift? i know i wouldn't

so you're saying that if you could hit 1000 in a pull and end up with a world record, and all you had to do was hit 700/500 on the first 2 lifts, you wouldn't do it?

cool man. respect to you. I sure as hell would.

fourth, the world bench press record is a full 130 lbs below the world deadlift record. oh you're not comparing the full meet bench to the deadlift? why not? maybe you should compare the single lift deadlift record to the fullmeet bench record. oh wait there is no single deadlift record

that is completely irrelevant.

Let's take Benni as an example. He hit 970. Are you saying that if he hits 970 in a 3-lift comp, he could hit...what, an extra 100 lbs on a pull in a single deadlift-only comp?

kinda like in training, for example?

you're twisting shit to make your arguement sound valid. putting spin on an important topic such as equipment creates unnecessary negativity for our sport. new lifters looking to get into powerlifting could easily be turned off by reading comments by people saying pl'ing has become a joke, or others saying it is wwe bound, or that ANYONE can put on a bench shirt and bench 600 lbs. the truth is equipment is now just another piece of the puzzle one has to solve in order to stay competitive. like everyone has already said, there are many different federations that should cater to exactly what it is you want or believe powerlifting should be

As I said, I agree with the negativity aspect, it is bad and doesn't belong.

But if you see something that you think is fucked up, are you going to sit there and say nothing? Not bring it up because you don't want to "rock the boat"?

and wtf is with the greg valentino reference. what does synthol have to do with pl'ing? i'm quickly losing sight of what your point is here

the point?

If synthol were allowed in bodybuilding, there would be people who would use it, and people who will bitch.
and the people who use it will say to those who don't, "just stick to your own federation, sorry you're so much "smaller" than us"

if flippers were allowed in Olympic swimming, there would be people who would use it, and people who would bitch.

and the people who use the flippers would say to those who don't, "just stick to your own swimming organization, but too bad, so sad about all the records we're going to destroy"

if aluminum baseball bats were allowed in pro baseball, there would be people who would use them, and people who would bitch.

and the people who use the aluminum would wave good-bye to every single hitting record ever set, leaving them so far in the dust that it would be as if Babe Ruth had never existed.

that is my point.

 

[Chambewy20]

I've watched your posts for the last three or four months and all you do is argue and bitch and moan about nonsense.

This is a powerlifting forum, if all you got is criticism then go bitch on the C&C, if your sole reason in this forum is to critcize, leave...

 

[kethnaab]

I don't just argue, bitch and moan about nonsense. Apparently you only read the threads involving me criticizing something you don't want criticized.

but whatever. negativity is bad, Dev is correct on that one. so I'll stop. Just re-read the title of this thread and think about it please.