Can't eat any more!

[SteelWeaver]

I'm posting my training day diet here. I would REALLY appreciate any feedback on what to do to clean it up a bit more, AND, more importantly, gain faster. It's been working for me, but I just can't shove any more down. Current gains are about 1kg per month (no bf% change) - I'd like to bump this up to about 2kg per month. I've read that 1lb a week is reasonable, especially if you don't want to gain too much fat, too.

On non-training days I cut out the sweet potato and granola bar. I almost never have a cheat day. On weekends I think I eat less simply because I sleep more.

Here's what I need to know: how can this diet be perfected? Like, I know I probably shouldn't go to bed full of tofu and high GI carrot, but I also know I should eat complex carbs within about 2 hours after training ... pity, I train at night!

Should I simply leave the sweet potato and granola bar in on off days?

I want to still be able to eat veggies and fruit. Can't buy low/non-fat cottage cheese, cheese.

I start cutting in January, so I want to gain as much as possible now.

I'm 5'11, 173 lbs (78.6kg) and about 20% bf, maybe a bit less - haven't checked very recently.

How can I possibly eat MORE? I think I need to switch something. This is a lot of food!

7am: 6 egg whites
2 whole eggs
1 mini green bell pepper OR 1 tomato OR half zucchini
handful of spinach OR handful of mushrooms
half a block tofu (150 - 190g)
150 grams muesli (raw oats with raisins (I know, I know), apple bits, nuts, seeds, etc) (sometimes Granola cereal, or bran flakes mixed in) plain instant oatmeal in winter
above with skim milk - maybe half a cup
1 cup coffee, 1 teaspoon brown sugar (bad girl), with skim milk

10 am: 1 pear OR 1 orange OR 1 persimmon
1 granola bar
sometimes 2 fruits, depending on mood

12 pm lunchbox filled with lentil, rice and feta cheese (full fat) salad (main ingredients)
includes cucumber, tomato, celery, cottage cheese (full fat), sometimes sesame seeds, sometimes walnuts, yellow bell pepper, olive oil, balsamic
(not sure of grams, but maybe 2 and a half times my fist size (total recipe for 4 days' lunch is 1 and a half cups lentils (uncooked), 1 and a half cups rice (uncooked), maybe 100g or so of feta)
500ml 100% apple or grape juice
1 small 0% fat fruit yoghurt

4:30 pm: 40g 100% whey protein (optimum nutrition)
1 apple OR 1 pear
half a sweet potato (110-150g uncooked)

6:30 pm: 1 or 2 whole-wheat crispy cracker type things (24 cal each) with cottage cheese and
100% peanut butter

7-9pm: weight training

9:30 pm: 40g Optimum Nutrition 100% Whey
1 banana
with milk

10:30pm: 1 block tofu (300-380g)
1 largish carrot

Spatterson, wilson6, MS? Anyone?

 

[SteelWeaver]

Wait a sec - I messed up - I'm dreaming. Not 1kg gains per month - I wish! I'm only gaining 0.5kg per month. I don't see how this is possible. My arms are bigger, my legs are bigger, my WAIST is bigger, my bf % is the same, I LOOK like I'm in better shape, but actual scale gains are minimal. What's going on?

 

[diamonddiceclay]

THE BEST THING TO PUT ON BULK IS RED MEAT-eggs should be used when cutting

 

[SteelWeaver]

Thanks guys, but I'm vegetarian. No red meat, no fish, no chicken. I'd even prefer not to eat the eggs, but I just don't have time for my diet to be that complicated.

I don't know that protein is the problem here - there's about 230g grams of protein in all that. About 155g from food. In other weeks, there's even more soy protein in my diet, which I believe has a PER close to animal flesh (?). And I believe brown rice with lentils provides all the ess. aa's.

Can you help me work with what I've got? I can't change the vegetarian part.

The late night training refuel has had me confused for months.

I think I need to move things around, but I don't know where.

 

[MS]

Have a proper post workout feed. This is the single most important concept for mass gain. Calories in = calories out hold true with any training goal. Save the reduced evening carbs for when you're cutting.

I personally think that you need to cut back on your veggies and whole grains if you want to eat more calories/protein. I am a big fan of veggies and grains, but you can overdo it when trying to add muscle. All that fiber and 'anti-nutrients' will decrease your absorption of macronutrients and vitamins.

At 20%bf you may want to consider a carb rotation mass gain diet. If done properly this can minimize fat gain/maximize muscle gains. I would also like to see you work out exactly what you eat in an average day in terms of grams of protein, fat and non-fiber carbs. I can't tell from what you posted since quantities are lacking on a lot of key ingredients. You should know this off the top of your head.

 

[SteelWeaver]

At 20%bf you may want to consider a carb rotation mass gain diet. If done properly this can minimize fat gain/maximize muscle gains. I would also like to see you work out exactly what you eat in an average day in terms of grams of protein, fat and non-fiber carbs. I can't tell from what you posted since quantities are lacking on a lot of key ingredients. You should know this off the top of your head.

Darn! I knew you were going to ask this! Oh, you're a hard woman, MS! But my heart leapt when I saw you'd replied, anyway. I SHOULD know it off the top of my head. But (sigh) I didn't. So I sat down and applied my lazy ass to it.

And I'm shocked.

Protein: 295g (29.5%)
CHO: 495g (43.4%) (This percentage after subtracting fiber below).
Fat: 115g (25.8%)

Fiber: 61g

Total calories: 3954 (Excluding fiber)

Very eye opening. How am I gaining so slowly on so many calories????

On non-training days I drop the potato and a couple of other things, but not much:

Protein: 263g (31%)
CHO: 402.9g (41.4%) (This percentage after subtracting fiber below).
Fat: 98.8g (26.2%)

Fiber: 51g

Total calories: 3421

I thought I was kind of doing a carb rotation, but I guess carbohydrates are still very high here. (I know my percentages don't add up exactly, but I used a nutritional calculator to work out the initial grams, etc. )

(http://www.nat.uiuc.edu/mainnat.html)

I think it's pretty accurate anyway.

So ... I looked at W6's client's hi-carb/lo-carb ratios, but they're for a cutting diet, and spatterson's CHO percentage is lower than I think I'd cope with. I get super grumpy and whiny and my quads burn when I walk up stairs when I go low carb. I only realised this last month, when I learnt about it, and connected it with my behaviour earlier in the year, when I had cut out most starchy carbs from my diet.

What percentages would you recommend? And how to spread them through the day? How many days at a time? 3 high, 2 low?

You said to eat properly post-workout. Does a protein shake with banana, followed later by 380g raw tofu and a carrot make the grade?

What can I do about the veggie and grain overload?

If I started losing fat now, would I still have to start cutting so early next year?

Sorry, sorry, so long, so many questions.

 

[wilson6]

Every female that I've brought over from the dark side (no meat) has made considerably far more progress with increasing lean mass and dropping body fat. If we weren't meant to eat meat, it wouldn't taste so good. Meat protein is a top source of protein, takes considerable energy to digest, is packed with nutrients and maintains fullness for a period of time.

"I get super grumpy and whiny and my quads burn when I walk up stairs when I go low carb."

Everyday someone else learns the value of carbs for lifting and mental function.

W6

 

[MS]

Your ratios look OK on paper, but because of the high fiber content you may be absorbing a lot less than you're eating. I am your weight, around 16-17%bf right now, and a strict vego. I gain good lean mass:fat ratio on 3000cals per day MAX. But everyone is different. I would suggest (for a start) that you adjust your macronutrient ratio so that you're eating close to isocaloric (40:30:30 C:F)), but include the fiber in you carb calculation. This will effectively increase you protein intake. Try to fit in more low fiber protein sources such as cottage cheese, eggs, soy protein ISOLATE, whey etc....Consume these proteins in meals that are separate to your veggies and grains, preferably with some fat.

Carb cycling also works very well for adding muscle, not just for dieting. I really think your situation warrants a close look at carb cycling. I don't know what weight and %bf you started at, but on the surface of it it seems that your diet and/or training is not optimal for you. A clued up trainer might help a lot (if there is any such thing in Japan?). However, as I've said before, the judges in Japan may have compeletely different tastes and criteria for figure competitors. So the best you can do is train well, eat well and rest lots. Don't worry about the scales too much. Keep track of the bodyfat. You may be losing fat, but retaining fluid (common on high carb/high calorie diets), so the scales stay the same but you look bigger. 0.25kg per month of muscle adds up to 3kg per year. That's actually very good for a female who's not using steroids. If you keep that up for a couple of years you'll be awesome!!! However if half of that weight is fat, then that's not so good

 

[wyst]

I eat meat (not much) and plenty of other proteins, but I also eat a lot of fiber in the forms of salads and the like. I didn't realize they'd keep me from absorbing the protein. I got rid of most of the empty carbs and put in good fiber instead and now you're saying that the fiber is keeping me from absorbing the protein?! It's enough to drive me back to McDonald's!

LOL.

MS -- can you recommend a good nutrition book for someone who mostly doesn't eat red meat? Fish chicken and eggs, as well as maybe a good book for just eggs? Or even for strict veggos like you?

Steel: Regarding Japanese competition: there are a few english language web sites about the Japanese bodybuilding women out there. One of them that comes to mind is steel butterflies (I know, groan). I can't think of the URL off the top of my head, but if you're interested I'll post it when I get home...

Wyst

 

[MS]

Wyst, PLEASE don't go back to McD's! In moderation fiber is your friend. I was merely commenting on the observation that Steel seems to be taking in A LOT of calories for her weight, but is finding it difficult to gain muscle. Although she is not obese, 20%bf is on the high side for a bodybuilder. This may be a digestion/absorption problem, a lack of protein, but then again it may be something else. Fiber decreases you absorption of all nutrients, not just protein. For most people this is a good thing since many people eat too much carbs anf fats too. If you're happy with your gains then keep doing what you've been doing, otherwise change it. Vego bodybuilders may need more total protein intake than omnivores.