Why do I feel hungover and crave carbs the day after my carb-up?

[SteelWeaver]

Mmmm. My knowledge is pretty sketchy, but that sounds a bit off to me. Both simple and complex carbs replenish muscle glycogen. And they go to the liver, too, at some point. I don't know the route, exactly. It 's the speed at which they get into the blood and the corresponding blood sugar and insulin spike, that differs. Simple carbs, being much shorter chains, break down quickly, and complex carbs, being long complex chains, take much longer to break down. That's why slow-burning complex carbs are best pre-workout and during the day, and simple sugars like maltodextrin and and dextrose are great post-workout, when you WANT an insulin spike. And at that time they will travel fairly quickly straight to the muscles.

The type of sugar makes a difference though - e.g. fructose goes straight to the liver first.

Like I said though, I have a very sketchy knowledge of the actual chemistry, you might want to check with someone more knowledgeable

 

[SirMack]

SO what type of foods are the BEST for the CARB Loading up days? Which foods should I avoid totally?

I'd love to know, as I want to maximize my diet, and if I can eat the right type of carbs on my load up days that just might help.

 

[MuscleDm]

For carb loading days I would stick with foods that have a moderate to low GI, and don't contain fructose. Example:
Yams, oats, brown rice, beans. If you are very depleted and want to refill muscle glycogen quickly post training, stick with straight up glucose or dextrose. Sucrose is OK, and fructose is bad for refilling muscle glycogen. Sucrose and fructose are rate limiting as the liver sucks them right up. Also, getting those carbs as quickly as possible is important, waiting more than 2 hours after training will severly restrict the rate of muscle glycogen replenishment. Plus it isn't a bad idea to do some light cardio after weight training to utilize some of the lactic acid that was build up to be oxidized rather than turned back into glucose.

Good luck....
Ryan

 

[Lumberg]

The caveat to that is that most simple sugars in our food consist of fructose. Fructose only goes to the liver.

You want carbs that will break dowm to glucose (aka dextrose) so that they can go to the muscles.

I think the reasoning behind consuming starches is that your body will break them doen ito glucose. Correct me if I am wrong.

JC

 

[JJFigure]

I'll check out the references quoted in NHE tonight and let you guys know where the information on what replenishes muscle glycogen vs. what replenishes liver glycogen. I definitely know fructose goes right to liver, but other than that, I need to go back to the book.

 

[MS]

Many of the metabolic benefits of a high carb refeed come from refilling liver glycogen, with additional benefit from muscle glycogen supercompensation and glucose flux through the fat cells that stimulates leptin secretion. So don't be afraid of fructose as part of your refeed, but make sure it's not excessive. A good 1 day refeed (high carb/low fat) will fill up everything nicely whether it's high GI, low GI, or fructose. If you've just come off of a high fat diet (such as on a CKD) then you might want to control your carb sources a little more carefully and use ALA liberally to help overcome the transient insulin resistance that you encounter. If you've just come off a low fat diet, it's less of an issue.

 

[JJFigure]

JC - you were right on. Here's the quote from NHE:

'More specifically, starches are broken down to glucose whereas sucrose...is a disaccharide consisting of part glucose and part fructose. Fructose is preferentially used to refill liver glycogen stores, whereas glucose is preferentially used to refill muscle glycogen stores.'

'In addition, sugar, and particularly fructose, when consumed in the large quantities typical of the American diet, stimulate lipogenic enzymes, raise serum triglyceride levels and promote insulin resistence, and raise LDL cholesterol.'

Both of these statements have multiple references from studies done on the effects of carbohydrates on muscle glycogen.

 

[MS]

There is no doubt that fructose (and galactose from milk sugars) will refill liver glycogen first (and also won't raise insulin appreciably), and that other sugars and starches are better for refilling depleted muscle glycogen/raising insulin. But that doesn't necessarily mean that fructose (or galactose) are poor sugars. It depends on your goals. If it's just a daily carb-up post workout, then yes you should avoid high fructose foods. If it's a once-a-week or infrequent carb refeed to prevent metabolic slowdown from dieting, then liver glycogen also needs refilling and in this case there is nothing wrong with fructose or lower GI carbs (especially towards the end of your refeed) and it is actually important that you DO top up liver glycogen on a regular basis when dieting. Without adequate glycogen, the liver will convert less thyroid hormone (amonst other metabolic adaptations) and you will lower your BMR.

"'In addition, sugar, and particularly fructose, when consumed in the large quantities typical of the American diet, stimulate lipogenic enzymes, raise serum triglyceride levels and promote insulin resistence, and raise LDL cholesterol.'"


So true, the two keys here being "when consumed in large quantities" and especially if you're already in a hypercaloric state. It's far less of a problem if you're hypercaloric and not consuming outrageous amounts of sugars (ANY sugars in excess=lipogenesis).