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Nathan said:
He's already got that down without the drugs.
heh heh heh ya fucker!
I'm telling on you 
M18
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DNP starts today
- Thread starter MUSTANG_18
- Start date
heh heh heh ya fucker!
I'm telling on you M18
SirWanksalot
New member
MrQuestion makes a good point about bromocriptine. If Lyles theory holds then dosing with bromo may keep the DNP induced hungries at bay, metabo upregulated, etc. that usually hit about 4th or 5th day into a cycle.
Essentially when your body diets, the leptin that normally makes it to the brain to say everything is ok is deminished, this lack of leptin signal is what causes the cascade of events metabo slowdown, hunger pains, etc. until you go back to eating.
With DNP, the fat burning is like 5 days in into one. Take 5 days on dnp is like dieting normally for 25 days on low kcals. Think about what must happen to leptin in a dnp enviroment, it most likely pluments by the 5th day and since the brain is no longer receiving the everythings OK leptin signal, the brain starts changing a whole host of chemicals and hormones to get you to stop what your doing and go back to normal eating.
think about supplimenting with bromocriptine and consider reading Lyle's excellent and detailed book on it's miriad of uses.
Essentially when your body diets, the leptin that normally makes it to the brain to say everything is ok is deminished, this lack of leptin signal is what causes the cascade of events metabo slowdown, hunger pains, etc. until you go back to eating.
With DNP, the fat burning is like 5 days in into one. Take 5 days on dnp is like dieting normally for 25 days on low kcals. Think about what must happen to leptin in a dnp enviroment, it most likely pluments by the 5th day and since the brain is no longer receiving the everythings OK leptin signal, the brain starts changing a whole host of chemicals and hormones to get you to stop what your doing and go back to normal eating.
think about supplimenting with bromocriptine and consider reading Lyle's excellent and detailed book on it's miriad of uses.
MrQuestion
Banned
SirWanksalot, glad you picked up on that too. I would like to chime in my two cents also.
I personally think that DNP truly fucks up one's leptin levels beyond just going on a caloric deficit. If uncouplers deplete ATP levels in the liver and especially the pancreas (where our hormone friend Mr. Insulin is secreted) then that just messes things up from the get go. THis is without considering reducing leptin levels simply by losing bodyfat. THen you mix in DNP's profound effect on fat loss, people dieting at low caloric levels, and with the people's bodyfat at this board being at the threshold..
bye bye leptin.
I bet leptin levels drop as low as 5 days of caloric eating in only half the time when we use DNP. So why do we still lose fat? Simply we are not relying on our body to burn fat, rather, it's simply being replaced with a profound fat burner.
Then we get ultra hungry, the fat loss is starting slow down despite feeling even warmer than before (but fat loss is still high in most cases I bet), and then the big surprise hits.
How many times has anyone done a few cycles of DNP and then all of the sudden lost their six pack, or gained some fat at a fast pace like never before while being hungry? Yes, we still lost plenty of fat overall yet we still had a rebound.
Im not speaking for all DNP users, I have read many reports where users have done DNP, got off, and didn't rebound at all (although I haven't read any where they tracked bodyfat to determine that).
I know for one thing. WHen I do DNP, I lose plenty of fat while on it, duh. But when I get off, I rebound like crazy if I am not careful. ANd even being careful I still have a bit of a rebound. Of course, I still lose more fat over the course when you include the fat loss while on DNP and the rebound followed after.
For example, I will lose 4-5 lbs of fat on a good week DNP cycle.
THe following week when I am off, Ill gain from .5 of fat (which is torture since Im still hungry and I still have to eat low calories while off of DNP) to 2lbs of fat (this is when I eat slightly above maintenance).
Yes, the rebound is that huge if I am not careful.
With bromocriptine, we basically trick our brains into thinking that our bodies our normal, above the leptin threshold (or at least keeping our best interest) and when we come off of DNP, the huge hunger pangs will be significantly down with our body metabolism being normal-close to normal.
And I theorize that with bromo that we can use a lower dose of DNP since now we have our brain on our side of the fat war which makes DNP more appealing. Why? I am not anti DNP, and I am not pro-DNP ( I used to be pro DNP 'big time')..but a low dose DNP would mean a greater chance of antioxidants controlling free radicals and would also minimize other risks. Of course, there may still be potential for other risks that has nothing to do with free radicals, like perhaps a potential autoimmune disease or something strange.
My biggest issue overall with DNP was simply free radicals. In fact, I panicked about losing some hair some time ago and it actully turned out that my hair was really thinning. Even my crotch pubic hair was very fine to the hair on my legs. I stopped DNP for awhile, and things were close to being back to normal.
So while there still may be a huge load of free radicals even on low dose DNP, there is now a greater chance to control it. I would love for other experts on chem or issues dealing with FR to chime in this issue.
In summary, with bromo making DNP more efficient while using it, and prevent a crash while off, this may be one of the best fat loss stacks around.
I am partly tempted to try it even though I haven't touched DNP for awhile, but if I fall in love with a girl and she dumps me or if some close relative dies that causes me to go a bit off my knockers, then Ill give it a shot.
Who knows, maybe Ill give it a shot simply for the curiousity effect. Im happy with my current diet so that I no longer rely on DNP, but things can change where DNP and I can become friends once again. Bromo also protects our noggin from FR damage too, so there is another plus right there.
Im just wondering DNP's effects on dopamine levels. Time for some digging.
I personally think that DNP truly fucks up one's leptin levels beyond just going on a caloric deficit. If uncouplers deplete ATP levels in the liver and especially the pancreas (where our hormone friend Mr. Insulin is secreted) then that just messes things up from the get go. THis is without considering reducing leptin levels simply by losing bodyfat. THen you mix in DNP's profound effect on fat loss, people dieting at low caloric levels, and with the people's bodyfat at this board being at the threshold..
bye bye leptin.
I bet leptin levels drop as low as 5 days of caloric eating in only half the time when we use DNP. So why do we still lose fat? Simply we are not relying on our body to burn fat, rather, it's simply being replaced with a profound fat burner.
Then we get ultra hungry, the fat loss is starting slow down despite feeling even warmer than before (but fat loss is still high in most cases I bet), and then the big surprise hits.
How many times has anyone done a few cycles of DNP and then all of the sudden lost their six pack, or gained some fat at a fast pace like never before while being hungry? Yes, we still lost plenty of fat overall yet we still had a rebound.
Im not speaking for all DNP users, I have read many reports where users have done DNP, got off, and didn't rebound at all (although I haven't read any where they tracked bodyfat to determine that).
I know for one thing. WHen I do DNP, I lose plenty of fat while on it, duh. But when I get off, I rebound like crazy if I am not careful. ANd even being careful I still have a bit of a rebound. Of course, I still lose more fat over the course when you include the fat loss while on DNP and the rebound followed after.
For example, I will lose 4-5 lbs of fat on a good week DNP cycle.
THe following week when I am off, Ill gain from .5 of fat (which is torture since Im still hungry and I still have to eat low calories while off of DNP) to 2lbs of fat (this is when I eat slightly above maintenance).
Yes, the rebound is that huge if I am not careful.
With bromocriptine, we basically trick our brains into thinking that our bodies our normal, above the leptin threshold (or at least keeping our best interest) and when we come off of DNP, the huge hunger pangs will be significantly down with our body metabolism being normal-close to normal.
And I theorize that with bromo that we can use a lower dose of DNP since now we have our brain on our side of the fat war which makes DNP more appealing. Why? I am not anti DNP, and I am not pro-DNP ( I used to be pro DNP 'big time')..but a low dose DNP would mean a greater chance of antioxidants controlling free radicals and would also minimize other risks. Of course, there may still be potential for other risks that has nothing to do with free radicals, like perhaps a potential autoimmune disease or something strange.
My biggest issue overall with DNP was simply free radicals. In fact, I panicked about losing some hair some time ago and it actully turned out that my hair was really thinning. Even my crotch pubic hair was very fine to the hair on my legs. I stopped DNP for awhile, and things were close to being back to normal.
So while there still may be a huge load of free radicals even on low dose DNP, there is now a greater chance to control it. I would love for other experts on chem or issues dealing with FR to chime in this issue.
In summary, with bromo making DNP more efficient while using it, and prevent a crash while off, this may be one of the best fat loss stacks around.
I am partly tempted to try it even though I haven't touched DNP for awhile, but if I fall in love with a girl and she dumps me or if some close relative dies that causes me to go a bit off my knockers, then Ill give it a shot.
Who knows, maybe Ill give it a shot simply for the curiousity effect. Im happy with my current diet so that I no longer rely on DNP, but things can change where DNP and I can become friends once again. Bromo also protects our noggin from FR damage too, so there is another plus right there.
Im just wondering DNP's effects on dopamine levels. Time for some digging.
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smokinghawk
New member
Two questions about DNP+bromo:
First, do you use the bromo AFTER the DNP to restore yourself, or during?
Second, how long do you need to use bromo to restore your metabolism?
First, do you use the bromo AFTER the DNP to restore yourself, or during?
Second, how long do you need to use bromo to restore your metabolism?
DNP is hell!
DNP+ Bromo= heller.
DNP+ Bromo+ ALA = HellEST!
If there's such words to describe the feeling while on these?!
To top it up, one's not supposed to use ECA during Bromo cause it will blunt its effect. So where is one going to find the least bit of energy for daily activities?
I bet anyone to try these three stacked !
DNP+ Bromo= heller.
DNP+ Bromo+ ALA = HellEST!
If there's such words to describe the feeling while on these?!
To top it up, one's not supposed to use ECA during Bromo cause it will blunt its effect. So where is one going to find the least bit of energy for daily activities?
I bet anyone to try these three stacked !
I talked with Lyle McDonald today about DNP and Bromo together. He thinks they would work, but didn't seem overly enthusastic about it, probably becasue people who are willing to use DNP diet for such a shorter amount of time, are a bit more flexibility in what they can eat and still lose weight, and don't deal with all of the psychological struggles of "natural" dieting. But he did suggest I try it, and let him know how it goes. In response to "Mr. Question", here are some things he had to say that might help you out...
**LYLE: This part is wrong/irrelevant. Leptin isn't produced by the liver or pancreas so affecting mitochondria through uncoupling there is irrelevant. And DNP doesn't relaly affect fat cells. So what he 'personally thinks' happens to be completely wrong.**
**LYLE: Yes, but no different than any other drug. Any time you pull calories out of fat cells (DNP, EC, dieting, whatever) leptin drops.**
**LYLE: Yes. INitially, DNP adds to the normal metabolism. After a while, it is replacement only. Same with EC. EC doesn't 'stop working', the body has shut down metabolic rate so that eC is now only a replacement of what's missing.**
**LYLE: Not sure if this follows. DNP is working through such a distinctly different mechanism than everything else.
That is, EC works through the sympathetic nervous system. With dieting, SNS activity goes down, bromo corrects that.
DNP is uncoupling mitochondrial metabolism, which isn't affected (for the most part) by dieting. NOt sure you can use a lower dose.**
**LYLE: You sound like me: the stress and anger approach to fat loss. **
**LYLE: If there is any effect of DNP on DA, it'll be indirect, by lowering leptin. The mechanism of DNP just doesn't give it any other way to affect DA levels.**
Later.
MrQuestion said:
**LYLE: This part is wrong/irrelevant. Leptin isn't produced by the liver or pancreas so affecting mitochondria through uncoupling there is irrelevant. And DNP doesn't relaly affect fat cells. So what he 'personally thinks' happens to be completely wrong.**
MrQuestion said:
**LYLE: Yes, but no different than any other drug. Any time you pull calories out of fat cells (DNP, EC, dieting, whatever) leptin drops.**
MrQuestion said:
**LYLE: Yes. INitially, DNP adds to the normal metabolism. After a while, it is replacement only. Same with EC. EC doesn't 'stop working', the body has shut down metabolic rate so that eC is now only a replacement of what's missing.**
MrQuestion said:
**LYLE: Not sure if this follows. DNP is working through such a distinctly different mechanism than everything else.
That is, EC works through the sympathetic nervous system. With dieting, SNS activity goes down, bromo corrects that.
DNP is uncoupling mitochondrial metabolism, which isn't affected (for the most part) by dieting. NOt sure you can use a lower dose.**
MrQuestion said:
**LYLE: You sound like me: the stress and anger approach to fat loss.
**MrQuestion said:
**LYLE: If there is any effect of DNP on DA, it'll be indirect, by lowering leptin. The mechanism of DNP just doesn't give it any other way to affect DA levels.**
Later.
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MrQuestion
Banned
Oh sweet! Lyle has checked on this info and I want to say thanks to you. Mischief, and Lyle. I just had a crazy thought one night and put bromo and DNP both together and thought up of the possible strategies of how it can enhance fat loss.
Of course, Im bound to screw up since I am far from a guru and barely know some physiology. Let me answer some of Lyle's input.
"**LYLE: This part is wrong/irrelevant. Leptin isn't produced by the liver or pancreas so affecting mitochondria through uncoupling there is irrelevant. And DNP doesn't relaly affect fat cells. So what he 'personally thinks' happens to be completely wrong.**"
As you can see, my knowledge of physiology is shit. THe reason I thought of this was simply thinking of the refeeding-leptin enhancing aspects.
For example, I thought if insulin levels were plumetted due to low ATP levels in the pancreas, then how would glucose reach to the fat cell without insulin? Doesn't that hold some responsibility for the upregulation of leptin pushing carbs into fat cells? I just figured if we tried to raise leptin levels up through a refeed on DNP, it would be a tough thing to do.
And Lyle is of course right about DNP not affecting fat cells, which is why putting Usnic Acid or some other uncoupler into a topical cream is a complete waste of time since hardly any of it will reach the mithochondria lacking fat cell (although there may be traces, but I would like to be corrected if wrong). Practically most of the mitochondria will be affected within the muscle cells, so taking it orally and getting the systemic effect would work just fine.
"**LYLE: Yes, but no different than any other drug. Any time you pull calories out of fat cells (DNP, EC, dieting, whatever) leptin drops.** "
I was just thinking the profound effects of DNP pulling calories out of fat cells faster than EC, thyroid, etc so that's how I came up with that reasoning of thinking with the drop of leptin. Im just speaking of a time issue here. No different if we lost a 2 lbs of bodyfat within 7 days from DNP or diet or whatever it may be, but I figured if people 'tend' to lose body fat faster on DNP than most other ways, then leptin would go down faster.
"**LYLE: Yes. INitially, DNP adds to the normal metabolism. After a while, it is replacement only. Same with EC. EC doesn't 'stop working', the body has shut down metabolic rate so that eC is now only a replacement of what's missing.**"
Lyle makes an excellent point where which I noticed hardly anyone else didn't think of once they ceased DNP. That is our own body's metabolism shuts down while using a 'replacement' like DNP and we are more susceptible to gain more fat due to a shitty metabolism once we finish the cycle.
This is why skinfold calipers are out there folks. They are used to measure bodyfat, so let's learn and start using them.
"**LYLE: Not sure if this follows. DNP is working through such a distinctly different mechanism than everything else.
That is, EC works through the sympathetic nervous system. With dieting, SNS activity goes down, bromo corrects that.
DNP is uncoupling mitochondrial metabolism, which isn't affected (for the most part) by dieting. NOt sure you can use a lower dose.**"
I went into a simple mode of thinking here. I just figured if leptin levels are maintaned better our or brain is fooled into thinking our bodies are not starving to death, other hormones which may have some interrelations with DNP may go up or be better balanced. For example T3 may stay higher than usual, and while I have no proof of this, the longer one stays on DNP the more critical T3 becomes. I could be wrong on this though. And there are the other hormones like GH, etc, etc.
And how I thought up of a lower dose DNP was simply meaning that we may not have to be as dependant on DNP for fat loss then before since our brain-bodies are now better adjusted for the environment with bromo.
"**LYLE: If there is any effect of DNP on DA, it'll be indirect, by lowering leptin. The mechanism of DNP just doesn't give it any other way to affect DA levels.**
And this is what I figured. But now I know for sure thanks to Lyle.
"**LYLE: You sound like me: the stress and anger approach to fat loss. **"
Some guys go to bars to start fights, others scribble in their diary and leave it locked inside when it comes to dealing with some anger issues. I figured it would make more sense to take it out on my body fat since this is the fight that actually has any meaning to me. WWWIII up in this body here.
In closing, if anyone else wants to reap any benefit on this issue, just skip my writings and focus on Lyle's. Im being honest here, he is that right on with this stuff. Also, his booklet covers tons of stuff with bromo and leptin which is very intriguing.
Mischief, if Lyle can read this again, I would be a blushing poster. Thanks.
Of course, Im bound to screw up since I am far from a guru and barely know some physiology. Let me answer some of Lyle's input.
"**LYLE: This part is wrong/irrelevant. Leptin isn't produced by the liver or pancreas so affecting mitochondria through uncoupling there is irrelevant. And DNP doesn't relaly affect fat cells. So what he 'personally thinks' happens to be completely wrong.**"
As you can see, my knowledge of physiology is shit. THe reason I thought of this was simply thinking of the refeeding-leptin enhancing aspects.
For example, I thought if insulin levels were plumetted due to low ATP levels in the pancreas, then how would glucose reach to the fat cell without insulin? Doesn't that hold some responsibility for the upregulation of leptin pushing carbs into fat cells? I just figured if we tried to raise leptin levels up through a refeed on DNP, it would be a tough thing to do.
And Lyle is of course right about DNP not affecting fat cells, which is why putting Usnic Acid or some other uncoupler into a topical cream is a complete waste of time since hardly any of it will reach the mithochondria lacking fat cell (although there may be traces, but I would like to be corrected if wrong). Practically most of the mitochondria will be affected within the muscle cells, so taking it orally and getting the systemic effect would work just fine.
"**LYLE: Yes, but no different than any other drug. Any time you pull calories out of fat cells (DNP, EC, dieting, whatever) leptin drops.** "
I was just thinking the profound effects of DNP pulling calories out of fat cells faster than EC, thyroid, etc so that's how I came up with that reasoning of thinking with the drop of leptin. Im just speaking of a time issue here. No different if we lost a 2 lbs of bodyfat within 7 days from DNP or diet or whatever it may be, but I figured if people 'tend' to lose body fat faster on DNP than most other ways, then leptin would go down faster.
"**LYLE: Yes. INitially, DNP adds to the normal metabolism. After a while, it is replacement only. Same with EC. EC doesn't 'stop working', the body has shut down metabolic rate so that eC is now only a replacement of what's missing.**"
Lyle makes an excellent point where which I noticed hardly anyone else didn't think of once they ceased DNP. That is our own body's metabolism shuts down while using a 'replacement' like DNP and we are more susceptible to gain more fat due to a shitty metabolism once we finish the cycle.
This is why skinfold calipers are out there folks. They are used to measure bodyfat, so let's learn and start using them.
"**LYLE: Not sure if this follows. DNP is working through such a distinctly different mechanism than everything else.
That is, EC works through the sympathetic nervous system. With dieting, SNS activity goes down, bromo corrects that.
DNP is uncoupling mitochondrial metabolism, which isn't affected (for the most part) by dieting. NOt sure you can use a lower dose.**"
I went into a simple mode of thinking here. I just figured if leptin levels are maintaned better our or brain is fooled into thinking our bodies are not starving to death, other hormones which may have some interrelations with DNP may go up or be better balanced. For example T3 may stay higher than usual, and while I have no proof of this, the longer one stays on DNP the more critical T3 becomes. I could be wrong on this though. And there are the other hormones like GH, etc, etc.
And how I thought up of a lower dose DNP was simply meaning that we may not have to be as dependant on DNP for fat loss then before since our brain-bodies are now better adjusted for the environment with bromo.
"**LYLE: If there is any effect of DNP on DA, it'll be indirect, by lowering leptin. The mechanism of DNP just doesn't give it any other way to affect DA levels.**
And this is what I figured. But now I know for sure thanks to Lyle.
"**LYLE: You sound like me: the stress and anger approach to fat loss. **"
Some guys go to bars to start fights, others scribble in their diary and leave it locked inside when it comes to dealing with some anger issues. I figured it would make more sense to take it out on my body fat since this is the fight that actually has any meaning to me. WWWIII up in this body here.
In closing, if anyone else wants to reap any benefit on this issue, just skip my writings and focus on Lyle's. Im being honest here, he is that right on with this stuff. Also, his booklet covers tons of stuff with bromo and leptin which is very intriguing.
Mischief, if Lyle can read this again, I would be a blushing poster.
Thanks.
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I know I'm not going to have time to talk to him today, and I'm going out of town for the weekend. But I do plan on discussing it with him further next week, when I have more time freed up. I'll post here if I learn anything really interesting. If you have any questions you specifically want me to check out, PM or email them to me, and I'll try to remember to ask.
