Big Boy Basics

[Andalite]

ah that would probably be a good thing for me to do, as I got back into deadlifts today after getting close for 5 months and my technique was a little off.

I am also going to try the type of thing you do for my military press, it has got the point where I cant progress even 5lbs every 9 days with ramping up to a single set. So Im doing some pre exhaust style trisets for the next 4-6 weeks then Im going to do straight sets and 6 sets of 4 kinda like the thing you were talking about Ill let u know how it goes

I don't do pre exhaust trisets....Your plan looks nothing remotely close to mine. Why did you say its similar to what I'm trying to do?

Also, you are correct: when you come back from a lay off doing Quality Volume Training for 3-4 weeks is good to set a base number and then building on that from week 5 onwards

 

[ExtraMile]

I don't do pre exhaust trisets....Your plan looks nothing remotely close to mine. Why did you say its similar to what I'm trying to do?

Also, you are correct: when you come back from a lay off doing Quality Volume Training for 3-4 weeks is good to set a base number and then building on that from week 5 onwards

i meant afterward the trisets, I said I was going to do something like 6x4, so multiple sets with the biggest weight for that day, that is like what you do isnt it?

 

[Andalite]

i meant afterward the trisets, I said I was going to do something like 6x4, so multiple sets with the biggest weight for that day, that is like what you do isnt it?

Nah dude....thats not what I do. My training is different from day to day. Very little is set in stone - I have like a 30% plan and the rest of the 70% is thinking on my feet for the most part.

But, perhaps I can be of service: explain to me what you mean by 6x4 increasing the weight. What do you expect to happen? And are we talking about OHPs right now? What weights you gonna take and how will that workout determine your next workout?

I know these are kinda long winded questions, but bear with me.

 

[bblazer]

Nah dude....thats not what I do. My training is different from day to day. Very little is set in stone - I have like a 30% plan and the rest of the 70% is thinking on my feet for the most part.

But, perhaps I can be of service: explain to me what you mean by 6x4 increasing the weight. What do you expect to happen? And are we talking about OHPs right now? What weights you gonna take and how will that workout determine your next workout?

I know these are kinda long winded questions, but bear with me.

I still don't quite understand the method to your madness. Maybe because I am old - who knows. But if you are breaking things down into meso cycles, etc I would think that you have more of a plan than what I have noted in bold. Do you have a "leg day" for example, and know that you are at least going to do back squats for x sets of y reps and z weight progressions, and then let fly from there based on how you feel or what you feel like doing?

Then I read your logs and see a great disparity between your deads and your squats. In my experience, when you see a trainee with those low of numbers (please understand I mean nothing cutting by that statement) with such a wide gap between their deadlift and squat, something is wrong somewhere. Again, in my experience, I normally don't see that much of a difference until you get to much more advanced strength athletes where eventually their squat overtakes their dead significantly (and in some more rare instances vice versa).

I absolutely mean no disrespect, but I am really lost. Maybe if you explained your system to me as if I were a 5 year old I could grasp it.

Thanks,
B-

 

[Andalite]

I still don't quite understand the method to your madness. Maybe because I am old - who knows. But if you are breaking things down into meso cycles, etc I would think that you have more of a plan than what I have noted in bold. Do you have a "leg day" for example, and know that you are at least going to do back squats for x sets of y reps and z weight progressions, and then let fly from there based on how you feel or what you feel like doing?

I've listed my training template right at the beginning of this journal. It's the very first post.

You're talking about squats so I'll address Squats in particular. I don't do back squats to the most that I can. I hate back squats as a matter of fact. My "Squat Day" involves me doing:

1.) Overhead Squats
2.) Front Squats
3.) Back Squats
4.) Grip Training
5.) Core Training

For Overhead Squats, I try to hit around 155+ for reps and sets which varies from workout to workout. I either improve reps, sets, weight, rest between sets or quality of reps. Sometimes I pyramid sometimes I don't. Progressing on Overhead Squats is super difficult because it just takes longer.

Front Squats: These have been a new challenge for me. I mentioned this earlier but I'll go over this again: I used to do these with the cross grip like you see most bb'ers do. Bad idea. I ended up having zero technique and all brute force. I don't do that. I am a technique kinda guy. So, about 5 weeks ago I went from using that cross grip (which had been grip for about 4 years) to using the clean grip. This takes time for me to adjust to. So, I've been doing massive number of sets to work on quality and relearn the front squat. To put it into numbers: I do around 6-10 sets of front squats and about 3-5 sets of overhead squats (not counting warm-up sets) per workout.

Back Squats: I do not like this exercise but I do it anyway because it allows me to move more weigh than front squats and overhead squats. I skipped it last session but I have been doing these for around 2 months now. You can check my old journal if you'd like. I also managed to hit a 365 lbs back squats AFTER doing a shitload of oh squats and front squats. I have no issue with my back squat not being close to my deadlift. It doesn't bother me. I'm not a powerlifter and while I have better form on this than 90% of the people I've ever seen do it, I don't sweat this lift as much.

Then I read your logs and see a great disparity between your deads and your squats. In my experience, when you see a trainee with those low of numbers (please understand I mean nothing cutting by that statement) with such a wide gap between their deadlift and squat, something is wrong somewhere. Again, in my experience, I normally don't see that much of a difference until you get to much more advanced strength athletes where eventually their squat overtakes their dead significantly (and in some more rare instances vice versa).

I take no offense to anything you have to say, sir. You're bringing up a very interesting point and I am glad you did. Perhaps others reading this (if there is anybody reading this) are also wondering.

To put numbers into perspective,
Deadlift = 475
Back Squat = 365

However, that back squat of 365 was done after around 10 work sets of overhead squats and front squats in total. In addition to this, I hit a 175 lbs oh squat (which is somewhat my current 1RM at the moment) and a 300 lbs front squat (which is when I decided to shift grips to a clean grip). So, I was kinda tired when I hit back squats and yet I managed to hit 365. I know 365 isn't a lot and I know you're thinking "why would he put such a key lift right at the end", right? Well, sir, I don't like back squats. I like Front Squats and OH Squats a 10000000000 times more. So as far as priorities go, back squats go right at the end.

I absolutely mean no disrespect, but I am really lost. Maybe if you explained your system to me as if I were a 5 year old I could grasp it.

There is no reason for me to take offense or anything of the sort. I love talking about my training.

But, I'd like to first say that I have no system. There is no routine which I am following or anything of the sort. My workouts are assessed one at a time. So, it is hard for me to give you a set answer for a long period of time: for example, if you ask me "what are you going to do about Deadlifts?" this is what I'll answer:

I just spent the last 5 weeks doing Cluster sets with 415 lbs. I went from Singles to Doubles in this time. So, essentially, what I did (if we break it down to its bare bones, you know?) is do a shitload of doubles with very little rest. So, for the next 4 weeks here's what I am gonna be doing (or atleast trying to do):

Weeks 1 & 2 will be spent doing doubles. This means 2 rep sets for a total for 5-6 sets starting with 415 and adding 5-10 lbs per set depending on how I feel. I'll take my usual 5-10 minute rest between sets because this is not cluster work.

Weeks 3 & 4 are kinda complicated. Here's a sample workout of what might happen:
400x5
410x2 (+10 lbs)
405x5
415x2 (+10 lbs)
400x5
That is a sample workout. So basically, I am increasing the intensity and volume of weight I am using gradually.

See...all this was decided based on the last 5-6 weeks of cluster sets. Now, if this goes according to plan, I'll do a couple of weeks of singles and perhaps peak or set a new max. Or I might not. It depends on my performance - which is why I don't think too far into the future. I build on my achievements so I have to first achieve before I can build.

I hope my answers make sense. I appreciate you dropping by and asking me stuff. I have no problems in sharing information and I like your tips: what you said about OH Presses I wrote down because since I am getting back to them after such a long time I forget all the tiny details and these details count like hell

 

[Tblock1]

Honestly your back squat and deadlift numbers don't look out of whack to me........but your bench is WAY out of whack I think you should be benching like 315 for those squats and deadlift numbers. I know you don't like the bench though.

 

[Andalite]

Honestly your back squat and deadlift numbers don't look out of whack to me........but your bench is WAY out of whack I think you should be benching like 315 for those squats and deadlift numbers. I know you don't like the bench though.

I would like to bench 315 lol... I just can't because of my shoulder injuries and dislocations. That is why I am doing those crazy bell bench presses...they really help build my stabilizer strength and when I start benching, it doesn't hurt.

 

[bblazer]

Thank you for writing such a detailed response. I appreciate it.

I would argue (and I'm sure you saw this coming based on my frame of reference) that you are missing out by not making back squats your "squat of priority." Do you feel that you are still getting the same ham, glute, erector, someplace else that you would with the back squat?

Again, thanks for your responses. You definitely train "outside of the box" and that interests me. I may not agree with all of it, but how else do we learn if we don't try and think in new ways!

B-

 

[Andalite]

Thank you for writing such a detailed response. I appreciate it.

I would argue (and I'm sure you saw this coming based on my frame of reference) that you are missing out by not making back squats your "squat of priority." Do you feel that you are still getting the same ham, glute, erector, someplace else that you would with the back squat?

Again, thanks for your responses. You definitely train "outside of the box" and that interests me. I may not agree with all of it, but how else do we learn if we don't try and think in new ways!

B-

Nothing is permanent and nothing is set in stone.

I used to prioritize back squats for like 4 years. It's only recently I've moved towards Front Squats because I know they're more effective. PL'ers might not agree with me but then OLY lifters and Strongmen might...who knows? I am just focusing on Front Squats for now. In a few months that might change. And I will get progressively stronger on back squats - it just won't be as quick.

As for Overhead Squats: they're a brutal exercise and pretty much my staple because of their toll on my core strength, hip mobility, glute and hamstring strength.

 

[bblazer]

Oh, we do front squat, but it is considered more of an assistance exercise. It does have good carryover to the atlas stones, and does help the back squat. WHile we have done them in my group, as a general rule I think the overhead squat is generally ignored. I'm not sure I could answer why either. But then again, I would venture to guess that it would be put into the assistance category as well.

B-