Viable?

[kortisol]

I am a natural trainee who just got into the game a few months ago. I've been hopping from idea to idea and program to program. I haven't been able to stick with a program for longer than a few weeks but because of my beginner status I've been able to make solid progress so far. I started out at 196 and now I'm up to 218 at 6'0 (14-16 percent body fat) in only a matter of 4 months. The gains have been split between fat/muscle/water retention.

This is the program I created and intend on using/sticking with for the next couple of months. I hope the more experienced lifters will have constructive criticism to offer to help maximize progress.

A) Deadlift 10x5
BB Overhead Press 10x5
BB Pullover 10x5

B)Squat 1x20
BB Bent Row 10x5
BB Bench 10x5

I plan on running this everyday alternating between A and B until sunday which will be a rest day. The set/rep scheme for every movement is 10x5 aside from squat which is 1 set of 20 repetitions. Some might argue the volume is too high but I don't think 270 reps every two days is terribly difficult. Also I don't possess the greatest genetics in the world but at nearly 220 pounds I stand as the smallest male in my family, which may or may not signal a slightly above avergae recovery and muscle building capacity.

I might as well note that after awhile of performing high volume workouts this way I intend to switch to a much, much lower volume routine. I expect the transfer to be highly beneficial.

Thank you for your time.

 

[_cato_]

You want to work out 6 days a week with that? And the sets are straight sets or ramping sets? Why 1 set of 20 for squats?

Seems excessive, particularly for a beginner. It'll be especially harsh on your lower back deadlifting 10x5 3x per week.

Just to put it in perspective, you're doing around 6x more weekly volume than a typical beginner program.

 

[kortisol]

Straight sets were my idea but theres no reason why I couldn't ramp them either. I've been deadlifting minimum 3x a week so far and I must admit my lower back does cause some difficulty with me just trying to support my body in daily life. I get through it and I believe the struggle is worth it (causes me to compensate by using extra ab strength just walking around). I refuse to deadlift any less than that. I understand it may seem like a lot for a beginner but as a beginner I don't lift very heavy and I only have one lift above novice level (OHP 130+). To be honest I hate squatting so I just try to get it out of the way in one intense set. I also don't have a squat rack at home so I always have to clean the bar over my head every time I squat or have my brother help me.

 

[zedhed]

Hey bro, Welcome to EF and glad to have you with us.
To me that just seems so complicated and too dam much.
I would seriously suggest that you google Strong Lifts 5x5.
This is an excellent program for anyone at any stage of working out.
Keep in mind that you must EAT in order for this program to work to its full potential.
Also if you use this program use it exactly as it is written. I will say that again bro, use it exactly as it is written.
If you use this program you will find that it is brutally effective at giving you strength and size in a short amount of time.
Check it out and post up your thoughts bro. And good luck to you.

 

[kortisol]

Thanks for the welcoming thoughts zed.

The volume might appear too much but it is actually very simple.

I've researched stronglifts and I find the volume to be a little on the low side. If I were to go that route I'd probably use madcows over stronglifts. Stronglifts or a nice 3x3 would be ideal for a deload period though. I frequently zigzag my diet, some days I eat 2000 calories or so and some days I eat 4000 or so. I don't believe in using programs exactly as they are written. To exclude my own ideas and tendencies is just not in my nature. I can't help myself in that regard.

Good luck to you as well.

 

[lweaver]

Welcome

You seem to have good body composition, how are your main lifts doing?

Cutting the volume and putting more work into your diet will yield more gains in the long run. As a beginner you can hypothetically eat like shit and have a bullshit program and still make significant gains. As you get stronger in relation to yourmax potential, you will have to start doing more and more things correctly.

You have the idea of focusing on the important lifts and that's great. Just a few things to consider...

Is your squat form good enough, and is your focus strong enough to get the full advantages of the exercise with only one set? Squat form begins to break down after things begin to get difficult, in short you begin to train your body to perform with less than optimal form by only performing one extended set for a long period of time.

What is the purpose of 10 sets of 5 with the deadlift? Most pros who are strong as fuck will agree that low rep schemes/heavy singles are ideal for this lift for the majority of sessions. 10 sets of five at close to your 5RM will just lead to overtraining, and in the long run prevent your from geting stronger.

I'd also look into eating more if strength is the main goal. Most dudes your size will drop weight at a flat 2000 kcals a day, it just doesn't make sense to starve your body and expect it to get stronger. 2000 calories is great...for preworkout.

Good luck, I'd seriously consider some sort of progressive programming if you want the gains to keep coming but you're squatting, dealifting, overhead pressing and benching so you are on the right track.

 

[kortisol]

Body composition is sub optimal I must admit, 10 percent fat or lower would be more ideal.

My main lifts aren't that great in my mind and thats one reason why I try to compensate with a higher accumulative workload. but for all I know they might be alright in comparison for the amount of time I've spent. Deadlift is 350 or so but I perform worksets in the 200-240 range. My reason being is a couple singles of 350 is much, much less total work than 50 reps at 200. Higher workload = more growth and I'd rather grow faster and sacrifice strength gains a little bit to get the job done (similiar to the german volume training approach). Another thing is I haven't ever been in a situation where lifting more than a couple houndred pounds was required of me to perform some kind of task in ordinary life.

My squat form isn't that great but I have yet to be badly injured and my philosohpy is "if you're not injuring yourself, then form is good enough". I use an almost sissy squat technique by keeping my legs somewhat close together. It feels more natural for me that way.

Deadlift is my favorite exercise and one day I want to have a back that I can truly be proud of. Deads and rows forever!

Thanks weaver, I will make sure to eat more food =).

 

[_cato_]

I see that you are acknowledging our comments about volume, but I don't think you really grasp what we are saying. You may in fact be "able" to do the routine that you are suggesting, and you may even make gains on it for a while, but there's a difference between "able" and optimal or "a good idea." Doing an "excessive" amount of weight training doesn't result in faster gains. It actually will diminish your gains because you will be burning up a lot of calories from the extra workouts that otherwise could be going toward muscle building. Moreover, it significantly increases the chances that you will either burn out or suffer some sort of overuse injury because you aren't conditioned for what you are trying to do. In sum, it's a waste of time at best, a risky endeavor at worst.

There's a difference between an advanced trainee building up to a huge training load and a beginner trying to start off with one right off the bat. There's a reason that beginner programs all prescribe similar volume levels-it correlates to a typical trainee's recovery ability and capacity for gains. It's unlikely that your recovery ability is 6x better than a typical beginner. Typically as trainees progress in their training life, the volume must continue to increase to continue to elicit gains.

You can try it out if you want, but you're probably better off in the long term if you cut back a bit. Even if you did that routine 3-4 days a week only. Remember that this is a marathon, not a sprint.

I had more to say but I'm about to pass out in my chair and I lost my train of thought...

 

[kortisol]

_cato_
You seem to be implying less is more. I'm not entirely sure I agree with that although it would be extremely arrogant of me to think I know better than the tried and true methods of the millions before me. I've had days where I was doing over 35,000 lbs in one session split between only 3 lifts :dead, row, and bench. I think those were the days that really began pushing me forward in size. It could just be because I'm a newbie and I can make size gains off of anything but somewhere deep down I feel more is more. I've read a few german volume training articles and they all promise fast size gains. I figure I might as well incorporate some of those principles, as it would seem counter intuitive to ignore an opportunity to make fast gains, ESPECIALLY in the beginner stage where the process of adaption is heavily underway. I wouldn't mind overtraining a tad bit and then vastly reducing the volume. Supercompensation I believe is what they call it and the process should in theory allow me to adapt and conditon myself to handle a high workload.

I am very aware of what people are suggesting, and I do appreciate the sharing of knowledge.
In consideration of your 3-4 day a week suggestion, would a 5 week cycle like this work better in theory?

week 1: 3 days a week to reach 60,000 total lbs
week2: 4 days a week to reach 80,000 lbs
week 3: 5 days a week to reach 100,000 lbs
week 4:major deload : 2-3 days a week 40,000 lbs
week 5: continue deload

20,000 lbs per workout. Thats actually very reasonable.

 

[lweaver]

If size is your primary goal then hypertrophy and increasing workload may be important...for the intermediate to advanced lifter.

At this point however, bigger size gains are going to be made by eating more calories and decreasing volume. An amazing thing happens when you begin to get stronger...you get bigger. Not just beach muscle--but thick, functional, nobody-wants-to-fuck-with-you muscle.

Maybe go with what you are doing for awhile, but I promise it is going to stop working in the relatively near future. At that point, start stronglifts 5x5 exactly as recommended. Work hard until you have a 1.5 bodyweight bench, double bodyweight squat/dead, and then try and tell us that you don't only feel strong as hell but also much much bigger.

The problem with German volume training is the proponents of such things are generally advanced lifters who have a base in slagging heavy weights. Remember that you can train long, or you can train hard...but you cannot do both. In my experience training hard is more beneficial. Don't believe this? Consider that you are performing 5 rep sets with 240 lbs, or 69% of your one rep max. Your true five rep max is probably around 315 lbs. (90% of your one rep max). In essence you are doin a shit-ton of reps with a relative weight that most trainees would designate for warmups.

While you may not need to lift more than 240 lbs day to day consider the functional aspect...if your maximal strength potential is higher, all tasks in relation to this will be easier. If you deadlift 350 and Mongo deadlifts 800, who will have the easier time lifting the 240 pound load? Mongo hasn't touched 240 since he was 7 years old, but I bet you know who will have the easier time of it. Plus carrying a fridge up a few flights without any help just makes you look like a fuckin badass.

I've done high volume before...high volume is difficult. After a long enough session so is jogging. If you really want to push yourself, try some heavier loads and see how it goes.