Newbie cycles that vets could learn from.

[Realgains]

Okay I am going to put this dose thing to rest once and for all...he he he .

A very close friend of mine who has trained naturally for YEARS and has been stuck at his natural maximum weight for years (5'10" and 195 lean) decided to try steroids.

I strongly suggested that he be followed by a doctor especailly since he is 39 years old.
I recommended Ulters doctor to him, endochrinologist Dr. Scuggs.

Dr. Scuggs has many many steroid using patients BTW.

Scuggs put him on 100mg of nandrolone and 100mg of test(US human grade) injecting every 4th day. Thats a total of 350mg of juice every 7 days. He decided to stay "on" for 12 weeks. He gained a very solid 22 pounds. Its been 3 months since the cycle ended and he is still up 18 pounds. This was in a man 39 years of age that was already at his natural max weight. He did, however, have a very solid understanding of how to train properly. He trains low volume and infrequently with few very hard sets on the big basic compound movements. He also ate very well and got at least 8 hours of sleep EVERY NIGHT.

NOTE: Once you stop juice you will eventually go down to your natural max weight. Some are able to keep a little more as steroids can increase the actual number of muscle cells a little.

So you don't need high doses if everything is in order.

Go to www.newhopemed.com
Read "Steroids benefits and pitfalls"
In this acticle Dr. Scuggs say that 350-700mg of juice per week(only half of this being strong androgen testosterone) is MORE than enough for all but the most HARD CORE bodybuilders.

Gee guys...what does "the most hard core mean?" THE HIGHLY COMPETITIVE in my books..like Quadsweep.

RG

 

[Texas Ranger]

39 years old and 350mgs of Gear with a 22lb gain! That's pretty darn impressive!! 350-700mgs a week sounds good to me... I'm a little larger than the average guy(6'4" 245lbs 9-10%bf), but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

 

[Fonz]

What i find interesting in this whole thread is that everybody is expressing they're OWN OPINIONS.

You are NOT backing it up with scientific evidence.

If this board was run based on everybodies opinon, we's still be stuck in the Stone Age in relation to AAS.

Nelson, Realgains and Quad:

#1 you say 500mg/week is better than 1000mgs/week in regards
to physiological probelms.

Ok. Prove it.

I don't want HEAR SAY i.e. "My buddy told me" or "I heard". What I and others need is REAL lab work, real evidence not just words.

Being cautious is all said and good BUT what we aspire here is to
MAXIMIZE the effectiveness of the AAS we are taking.

FYI: I STRESS maximize the efficiency.

Your cycles do not seem to be doing that.

Ponder on that before answering.

I'm not being patronizing, but I am going to STEER the thread into a more scientific view point as we seem to be stuck with the rhetoric of two opposing view points.

 

[Realgains]

What i find interesting in this whole thread is that everybody is expressing they're OWN OPINIONS.

You are NOT backing it up with scientific evidence.

If this board was run based on everybodies opinon, we's still be stuck in the Stone Age in relation to AAS.

Nelson, Realgains and Quad:

#1 you say 500mg/week is better than 1000mgs/week in regards
to physiological probelms.

Ok. Prove it.

I don't want HEAR SAY i.e. "My buddy told me" or "I heard". What I and others need is REAL lab work, real evidence not just words.

Being cautious is all said and good BUT what we aspire here is to
MAXIMIZE the effectiveness of the AAS we are taking.

FYI: I STRESS maximize the efficiency.

Your cycles do not seem to be doing that.

Ponder on that before answering.

I'm not being patronizing, but I am going to STEER the thread into a more scientific view point as we seem to be stuck with the rhetoric of two opposing view points.

You forgot Ulter Fonz.

I think Dr. Scuggs knows a thing or two after all he is an endochrinologist dealing with hundreds of steroid users. When he says 350-700mg of gear is more than enough for all but the most hard core then I think we would be wise to listen up.


RG

 

[Nelson Montana]

Fonz,
I made a similar point to yours on another thread. Too many people base opinions on little more than what they want to believe.

However, in the case of what dosages are effective, I believe the question should be, at what point does the risk to benefit ratio become disfavorable? And that is something that will continue to be disputed for some time, I'm sure.

Of course, more drugs will yield more result, but it also yields more potential risks. Prove it? Does anyone really need to provide a litany of health risks associated with steroids? But oh yeah, there will always be the guy who says "I do this and that and I'm fine." Everybody's fine...until they aren't -- and there've been enough cases of that, as you well know.

My stance on issue is this: use the least amount to get the most result. 1600mgs will not produce twice the gains of 800mgs. But if someone wants that little extra effect that a bigger risk will give, god bless 'em.
I've also seen firsthand, many many times over, how small gains are maintained while large gains are lost. Take it for what it's worth.

I believe Quadsweep and myself are speaking from a position of knowledge and experience. Realgains is promoting caution. With so many fools giving reckless, erroneous, and irresponsible advice on this board, I think we're the last ones who should be called out for their views on this matter.

 

[Quadsweep]

Fonz,
I made a similar point to yours on another thread. Too many people base opinions on little more than what they want to believe.

However, in the case of what dosages are effective, I believe the question should be, at what point does the risk to benefit ratio become disfavorable? And that is something that will continue to be disputed for some time, I'm sure.

Of course, more drugs will yield more result, but it also yields more potential risks. Prove it? Does anyone really need to provide a litany of health risks associated with steroids? But oh yeah, there will always be the guy who says "I do this and that and I'm fine." Everybody's fine...until they aren't -- and there've been enough cases of that, as you well know.

My stance on issue is this: use the least amount to get the most result. 1600mgs will not produce twice the gains of 800mgs. But if someone wants that little extra effect that a bigger risk will give, god bless 'em.
I've also seen firsthand, many many times over, how small gains are maintained while large gains are lost. Take it for what it's worth.

I believe Quadsweep and myself are speaking from a position of knowledge and experience. Realgains is promoting caution. With so many fools giving reckless, erroneous, and irresponsible advice on this board, I think we're the last ones who should be called out for their views on this matter.

This was my point exactly! I always fall on the side of caution when giving advice. You have to remember that we do not know the people on here personally and with all the years I have been in this sport, I have come to realize that there are a lot of obcessive compulsive personalities here (me included). You suggest an inch and they may take a mile!

Quad

 

[Judo Tom]

This thread has been an awesome read!!!! I really appreciate the fact that although there were different opinions from different people that it did not turn into a useless flame war..

everyone here presented some GOOD points!!

Thanks.

 

[Zoomster]

I am a new user and this thread has really made sense to me. When I first starting researching on this and other boards whenever I would ask about first cycles I usually got the standard answers : 40mgs of Dianabol wks 1-5 combined with 400mgs Deca and 500 mgs Test for a total 10-12 week cycle.
There were a few variations of this, but usually this was the recommendation. My thought process is that I need to find, through trial and error, the lowest levels of AS that achieve's my desired result. The only way to do this is to experiment with lower dosages and then adjust accordingly. Why should I start with higher doses when the lower dose may accomplish my goals? Saves me money and lowers the risk for sides. So, thanks for this very informative thread.

 

[Hard Gainer Blast]

I want to start a Dinabol or deca stack which would be the best for a hard gainer like myself? Very great thread, informed me of alot of information...just very skeptical about peoples opinoins sometimes.

 

[Realgains]

I want to start a Dinabol or deca stack which would be the best for a hard gainer like myself? Very great thread, informed me of alot of information...just very skeptical about peoples opinoins sometimes.

You need to learn to train without steroid first before you can make good use of low dose cycles.
You need to train very infrequently, never more than three days per week on a three way split and twice per week on a two way split may be better(Upper body/lower body). Train on the basic compound movements for limited work sets ...like 3 sets per body part.. BUT HARD! Squats are a must so do them very hard and go deep. Also include some form of deadlift in your routine. Try to add tiny bits of weight to the bars weekly.www.fractionalplates.com

www.hardgainer.com

You don't need to use more than 400 of deca per week and 20 of d-bol in divided doses for the first 4 weeks only. Thats MORE THAN ENOUGH! Actually you don't need the d-bol at all but deca/d-bol is a good stack.
If you can make gains without gear then this plan will be a good one....but you must learn to train properly without gear and be able to make gains without gear first.

The reason so many recreational lifters use large doses of gear is because they do not know how to train without gear.

Eat all the time but avoid saturated fat.
Sleep a minimum of 8 hours every night.
Limit cardio to three 30 minutes sessions per week.
Do no other sports.

AND be followed by your doctor.

RG