Coming off the juice after 3 years straight usage. Need recovery advice.

[sparetire]

Biteme,

don't take this the wrong way, but why the hell did you plan on doing a 3 year cycle and never included HCG into the plan? That's simply ignorant in my opinion. Anyone who does the research, plans ahead, knows that if you are running cycles longer than 20 weeks you need to run HCG every other month or two to keep the nuts in check. I ran my longest cycle this time around (17 weeks) and can't imagine running it any further than that without hcg. Now with that said and done and realizing you can't change the wrongs you did with your 3 year, non pct cycle, i would definitely go to an HRT SPECIALIST and talk to him. He'll probably prescribe you HCG and after time, your nuts and hopefully your natural testosterone will come back. I've been off of my last cycle (test/eq) now for 3 weeks and I still have berries down there...They are slowly getting back up to par, but I'll get some HCG for the next go.. Now stop being like a stubborn male and get your ass down to an hrt specialist and tell him whats up. Also, if you are experiencing depression, get yer ass to your doc and get some anti-d's if your depression is suicidal.. (lexapro works pretty good and doesn't inhibit 80% of men's erectile functions).

I'm not trying to be a hard ass but just telling you like it is bro!

 

[DIVISION]

Now, I'm gonna say it just like it is, your attitude is that of an arrogant, offensive person and you are wrong and I'm getting tired of you. So why don't you go away with your lies. You do not have my best interests in mind as you claim. Your behavior disgusts me.

Bro, you keep changing your mind about everything. First you say you're staying on AAS for the rest of your life......3 weeks later you change your mind and say "I lied". You don't stay on AAS for 3 years without a backup plan, you're just setting yourself up for a fall. Of course I have your best interests in mind, but when you just throw up excuses like the "God wills it" stuff, what do you expect. You can't rationalize with someone who uses God as a reason for everything that happens in their life.

You need to PM Jenetic about your recovery.







DIV

 

[crfpilot14]

div, i always had you pegged as an ass but the more i read your posts the more i am changing my mind. it is a rare moment when you retaliate on someone with a flame or childish banter like many on here do. it would have been easy to come back at his comments with a personal attack but you just laid out your argument like an adult. props to ya...

 

[Maetenloch]

I surprised no one's mentioned SWALE - he's a doctor who specializes in treating athletes for HRT and other endocrine issues. You can check out his web site at http://www.allthingsmale.com . In addition to monitoring your blood work, he also has developed protocols for restarting test production after long steroid cycles. Sounds perfect for you.

 

[DIVISION]

div, i always had you pegged as an ass but the more i read your posts the more i am changing my mind. it is a rare moment when you retaliate on someone with a flame or childish banter like many on here do. it would have been easy to come back at his comments with a personal attack but you just laid out your argument like an adult. props to ya...

Measure a man by his actions fully; from the beginning to the end.




DIV

 

[gymratforlife]

Measure a man by his actions fully; from the beginning to the end.




DIV

Div the poet lol .

 

[biteme]

Thanks to all of you who are truly sincere in your desire to offer advice.

 

[awittyusername]

I surprised no one's mentioned SWALE - he's a doctor who specializes in treating athletes for HRT and other endocrine issues. You can check out his web site at http://www.allthingsmale.com . In addition to monitoring your blood work, he also has developed protocols for restarting test production after long steroid cycles. Sounds perfect for you.

Swale is not accepting any new patients. He is too busy with the patients he has and his lectures. Luckily, I got in last yr

 

[DIVISION]

Swale is not accepting any new patients. He is too busy with the patients he has and his lectures. Luckily, I got in last yr

How do Swale's PCT strategies differ from any traditional PCT we see from Jenetic?



DIV

 

[awittyusername]

How do Swale's PCT strategies differ from any traditional PCT we see from Jenetic?



DIV

I have never used his pct. I use swale for hrt. For steroid cycles will test before during and after...and have it billed to insurance.

He is not accepting new patients....I am not advertising...So, stop editing all swale threads.
Here it is....

Since I've been hanging out here a bit lately, I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Also, I'm just running to catch a plane for Las Vegas, attending the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine International Conference. I guess they are supposed to publish an article I wrote on how to administer TRT for men. Wish me luck!

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.
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www.AllThingsMale.com

ANY ADVICE I MAY GIVE IN NO WAY SUBSTITUTES FOR A PROPER EVALUATION BY YOUR PHYSICIAN; NOR DOES IT CONSTITUTE DR/PT RELATIONSHIP, OR LIABILITY, IN ANY WAY