Barry's Gun Ban List

[redsamurai]

I stated earlier i didn't care what religion he was.. it's irrelevant

but yet you keep calling him our black mooslim communist anti christ. C'mon dude, don't try and back out of it now. Somewhere deep in your central nervous system is a chip implant that tweeks you every 48 or so hours into an ass puckering anti obama frenzy where you will beleive everything you hear about him that fits the pre rendered narrative that was programmed into that chip and anything contrary you couldn't be bothered with.

 

[Headholio]

It's like their purposefully trying to drown us in this crap instead of the real problems/issues.

That is exactly the case.

 

[binö]

Back to this, since someone I won't name says I overplayed my Bush card (Cough..Bino...cough)




Bush's Wide Reciever operation was the same gun walking operation as the Fast and Furious operation, both run out of the Phoenix ATF office. Both were investigated by the Justice department and both were criticized.

Blog posts are not credible citations for news facts. That first link is a joke. the second link is fairly accurate.

If you have a problem with Obama and fast and furious, then you have to have a problem with Bush as well. They did the same thing. And it started under Bush. Personally, I don't have a problem with either of them, as I doubt that either had any involvement or knowledge of these type of ATF activities.
Fast and Furious is just another Faux boobs diversion, but I'm sure no one ever heard that Bush did the same thing while watching the fair and balanced station.

this style of defending obama is widely practiced by his fan base that refuses to admit that the man is cupable of any fault and any transgression he may have committed can be defended by claiming the other guy did it first.
op wide reciever was similiar but it was a different operation and ended before fast and furious fired itself into infamy.
some major differences between the two that you failed to mention:
-op wide reciever was known to the mexican gov (f&f was not)
-an attempt at gps tracking was used in op w.r, not attempt in f&f
-op w.r was discontinued once it was realized that tracking the weapons was not possible once they crossed the border
-no reported murders are linked to op w.r, whereas hundreds are linked to f&f.
the fact that you "don't have a problem" with obama's admin being linked to hundreds of dead mexicans says a lot about you.

 

[Headholio]

this style of defending obama is widely practiced by his fan base that refuses to admit that the man is cupable of any fault and any transgression he may have committed can be defended by claiming the other guy did it first.

I understand why you are tired of the "he did it first argument". It is a common argument when dealing with hypocrits. Thats why democrats use it so much with republicans. Get it?

op wide reciever was similiar but it was a different operation and ended before fast and furious fired itself into infamy.

So, Wide Receiver was different, so you are ok with the ATF botching up that operation? Because Bush was in office?
I don't doubtr there were differences in the 2 operations, but I know they were both botched. I know gun walking was done by the ATF since 2006, and they were screwing it up since 2006. So how do you close your eyes to that fact and pretend like this is an Obama problem?

Here's the Justice department report on both operations. Wide receiver let 474 guns across the border, and only recovered 64 of them (page 67). Are you ok with that? Letting guns across the border into the hands of criminals, and not recovering them. Did that just turn into a bad thing in 2009?

http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/2012/s1209.pdf

the fact that you "don't have a problem" with obama's admin being linked to hundreds of dead mexicans says a lot about you

I said I don't have a problem with Obama or Bush specifically, because neither one was directly involved in these operations. I have a problem with the ATF.
So what does it say about me? you think I'm worse than a guy who pretends that Obama is culpable for gun walking problems and pretends Bush did nothing when he started it and had his own botched operation? Explain the difference.

Page 412:

Both investigations had the same strategic goal – to follow guns up
an organizational chain to build a large gun trafficking case. Both
investigations involved many of the same issues and tactics, including the use
of physical and electronic surveillance; the use of cooperating FFLs; and the
bulk purchase of weapons by suspected straw purchasers and the
transportation of those weapons throughout the southwest border area and
into Mexico. Additionally, both investigations were run out of the Phoenix Field​

Division under the same SAC
.........

We reject the notion that Operation Wide Receiver lacked relevance​

because it was carried out under different leadership at the U.S. Attorney’s office and ATF headquarters.

P. 413​

Dismissing the relevance of a
similarly flawed investigation because it happened under another
administration’s “watch” is not what we believe should be expected of a senior​

Department official.

You should read the conclusions starting on page 417. It is clear, this was incompetence in the ATF that began in the Bush years and flowed into the Obama years. The report makes clear that the actions of the ATF were consistent and the Fast and Furious program has nothing significant to differentiate it from the same or similar activities happening since 2006.​

no reported murders are linked to op w.r, whereas hundreds are linked to f&f.

I think you need to cite your souce, because I don't think its true. Wide receiver left hundreds of guns unaccounted for. Fast and Furious, over a thousand. How can you count deaths caused by unaccounted guns? The results of both operations were the same. The smoke screen has been removed.



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[redsamurai]

sorry Bino but headholio has more sense about this than you. In no way did I sense Head had "no problem" with these gun walking operations, I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Head is absolutely right, it's incompetence at ATF. I'm actually surprised to hear they were doing it prior to 08 because I thought F&F was a new tactic and they dropped it seeing how it didn't work in the slightest. And Bino how do we know none of those guns sold to messicans prior to 08 haven't been used to murder people or will not in the future? Is there some special GOP pixie dust they sprinkled on the guns before they let them walk EXACTLY like F&F did? Isnt' it safe to assume those guns have either killed people or are in circulation with people who WILL at some point kill other people? I'm really confused at the distinctions you're attempting to draw between the two operations. If I'm reading you right it goes something like this.....sure both operations let guns walk across the border BUT the guns from F&F are the ones we KNOW have to date been used in murdering people, ergo F&F is a direct failure of Barack Hussein Obama while the previous Bush administration operation is.....well we're not gonna talk about it. Do I have that about right?

 

[binö]

sorry Bino but headholio has more sense about this than you. In no way did I sense Head had "no problem" with these gun walking operations, I don't know how you came to that conclusion. Head is absolutely right, it's incompetence at ATF. I'm actually surprised to hear they were doing it prior to 08 because I thought F&F was a new tactic and they dropped it seeing how it didn't work in the slightest. And Bino how do we know none of those guns sold to messicans prior to 08 haven't been used to murder people or will not in the future? Is there some special GOP pixie dust they sprinkled on the guns before they let them walk EXACTLY like F&F did? Isnt' it safe to assume those guns have either killed people or are in circulation with people who WILL at some point kill other people? I'm really confused at the distinctions you're attempting to draw between the two operations. If I'm reading you right it goes something like this.....sure both operations let guns walk across the border BUT the guns from F&F are the ones we KNOW have to date been used in murdering people, ergo F&F is a direct failure of Barack Hussein Obama while the previous Bush administration operation is.....well we're not gonna talk about it. Do I have that about right?

of course you will side with headholio he closer resembles your beliefs than i do, duh!
gop pixie dust=gps tracking devices that proved ineffective and lead to the cancellation of the project.
if they have killed they have never been linked that i have read read about...one would think if they did they press would be screaming about bush killing more innocents.
brian terry got murdered by a FF weapon and blew the lid off,mix in obama's obfuscations regarding the matter (claiming exec. privledge)and the you have quite the scandal that is why FF is in the spotlight and WR is not...you can bet your bottom dollar that we would know about WR in relation to murders and bush's evil machinations

 

[redsamurai]

of course you will side with headholio he closer resembles your beliefs than i do, duh!
gop pixie dust=gps tracking devices that proved ineffective and lead to the cancellation of the project.
if they have killed they have never been linked that i have read read about...one would think if they did they press would be screaming about bush killing more innocents.
brian terry got murdered by a FF weapon and blew the lid off,mix in obama's obfuscations regarding the matter (claiming exec. privledge)and the you have quite the scandal that is why FF is in the spotlight and WR is not...you can bet your bottom dollar that we would know about WR in relation to murders and bush's evil machinations

no not duh, if he was wrong on this I'd say so. He was wrong to call all the people worried about democrat gun control "ass puckering hillbilly's", but it's a hilarious visual in any case. But he's not wrong here. And you're still holding onto flawed reasoning...gun walking ops are wrong PERIOD!! Whether the GPS units failed or not is irrelevant, there's no way to close in on those guns in time even if they all went to the same place. The ATF made a calculated decision to possibly sacrifice a few lives so that they locate the main hive. And they did that with the citizens of a foreign country. WR SHOULD be in the spotlight as well because we have absolutely zero knowledge of what happened to those guns. We only got lucky with F&F because those guns got dropped at the scene when things went bad.

 

[Headholio]

of course you will side with headholio he closer resembles your beliefs than i do, duh!
gop pixie dust=gps tracking devices that proved ineffective and lead to the cancellation of the project.
if they have killed they have never been linked that i have read read about...one would think if they did they press would be screaming about bush killing more innocents.
brian terry got murdered by a FF weapon and blew the lid off,mix in obama's obfuscations regarding the matter (claiming exec. privilege)and the you have quite the scandal that is why FF is in the spotlight and WR is not...you can bet your bottom dollar that we would know about WR in relation to murders and bush's evil machinations

Pretty funny that you call me partisan when it is republicans that are turning this ATF fuck up into political slander. And you didn't hear equivalent slander about Bush because the democrats don't sink that low, and republicans are hypocrites once again. Another example of fair and balanced fake news.

And the program wasn't cancelled. It continued from 2006 on. It was cancelled but it continued? From the same ATF office? You aren't making sense.

You can nit pick to try and differentiate what is essentially the same thing, but Americans don't buy this right wing propaganda, and the election proved it. Fox noise isn't working.

Brian Terry got killed. But you claimed hundreds. Still waiting for the back up on that.

I don't doubt people got killed due to all ATF fucked up gun walking programs, but tryng to sell this gun walking= Obama crap is such transparent political BS I would be embarrassed to be on that side of the argument.

Read the justice department conclusions page 417.

 

[Headholio]

He was wrong to call all the people worried about democrat gun control "ass puckering hillbilly's"

What!!

 

[redsamurai]

What!!

well i didn't say it wasn't funny. On social issues I usually lean more left but not on gun control. Not anymore. Not that I want the average american who isn't responsible enough to raise children, to have access to military grade weapons....but I also think the dems want to take away too much. Sawed off shotties, extended clips, all that should be legal in your home. Especially sawed off shotties. That never made sense to me. Criminals will always just saw off the barrels right before they use it, but cops see a sawed off in your wife's closet for when you're out of town and there'll be some five oh ass puckerin....like it's just a matter of time before you're heading into a school yard with that sawed off. Makes no fucking sense, just penalizes the people that it's actually useful for....home defense. A 16 gauge sawed off is the perfect hallway sweeper for your wife....and those rounds won't go through the wall and hurt your kids like other ammunition will. A 9mm is really a terrible home defense ammunition.