Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear arms

[FLASHMAN1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear

Why should any have to prove anything?? Prove they MIGHT be attacked or confronted in their home? Prove that they will sleep better at night knowing the odds are at least equalled? Prove they are at risk for a RANDOM home invasion?
A HOUSE WITHOUT A GUN IS A CRIMINAL'S PRAYER AND DREAM. I don't like it any more than anyone else. Some people on this thread must believe that they can debate like with a common criminal instead of applying the principles of high velocity physics.

I disagree. Crime stats should fall immediately by the logic used by gun control advocates. Simply put, if you take guns from those who abide by the law they are at increased risk for violence resulting in their catastrophic death.

As to suicide, a person should feel free enough to live their life to the fullest. They should also be able to determine when they can end it. If we legally allow a person to sign a "Do Not Resuscitate" in regards to their medical treatment by personnel, then where is the rationale in determining that, 'others may kill you, including medical staff and criminals, but you can not kill yourself.'

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO FEEL COMPETENT LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO OWN GUNS, PLACE THE BURDEN OF PROOF! SHOW HOW MANY LICENSED CCW PERMIT OWNERS HAVE COMMITTED VIOLENT CRIMES.

Great post Doc!!!!! I agree.....

 

[FLASHMAN1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear arm

Actually, you just gave a great argument for more control -- not less. Instead of making people wait 15 days, make them prove they have any good reason to own one. Outlaw handguns altogether.

In any case, you wouldn't expect to see gun control laws have any effect on crime for years. No doubt, determined criminals and nutcases would develop a black-market trade. And there's no way to stop such people, period. On the other hand, I think more aggressive gun control would help diminish domestic violence and suicide. Suicide continues to be the leading cause of gun death.

"develop" a black market trade??? where the fuck do YOU live, under a rock???? there already IS a heavy black market trade... As stated in my post, the people abiding by the law on how to get a gun aren't the ones out committing the crimes.... As to proving you need one, again, where do you live??? I should have the right to protect my home/family from intruders BY WHATEVER MEANS NECESSARY!!!! I HAVE in the past had someone break into my house when my family was home. Let me tell you, it could possibly be the most violated feeling you could have... Fortunately for the dumbass would-be robber, who by the way ignored the 50 fuckin beware of dog signs posted all over my property, my doberman got to him before I did w/my 12guage, and I almost felt bad for the stupid fuck as my dog proceeded to tear him to shreds, which I allowed to continue until I was satisfied that he wasn't going anywhere. My point is, the people that want to own a gun to properly provide protection for thier family and thier posessions aren't the ones committing weapon related crimes... the people that don't obey the law to get guns will not be stopped by a law that outlaws the sale of guns, because they don't obtain them legally anyways.... c'mon people, you can't be that blind.....

as far as handgun suicide being a problem, well, how to answer to that..... hmmmmmm, people kill themselves all kinds of ways, the do it with drugs, suicide by cop, jumping off a bridge, etc.... are we to now outlaw bridges because people jump off them to kill themselves??? c'mon man, gimme a break.... A person that TRULY wants to kill themselves is going to find a way to do it no matter what, outlawing guns won't help those stats....

 

[manny78]

Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear arms

4. If you ban Guns The crimminals will laugh there asses off! They will still get there guns and wont have to worry when they break into peoples houses.

You have a very good point here. Here in Canada, handguns are virtualli forbidden (except for law agencies....). And guess what ? We still have violent crimes. Criminal have always and will always find a way to get their candies. From the 87 homicides in Montreal last year, at least 6-7 of them could have been avoided if the victim had a gun in his/her hands. RyanH, I know you have your opinions but remember this, if a criminal wants to kill someone, he will; no matter what weapon he has he will definitely commit the crime. Your laws may not be perfect but at least, give your people a chance to defend themselves.

 

[BackDoc]

Very good post! A good dog and a good gun = nightmares for the bed wetting liberals.

 

[musclebrains]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear

Why should any have to prove anything?? Prove they MIGHT be attacked or confronted in their home? Prove that they will sleep better at night knowing the odds are at least equalled? Prove they are at risk for a RANDOM home invasion?
A HOUSE WITHOUT A GUN IS A CRIMINAL'S PRAYER AND DREAM. I don't like it any more than anyone else. Some people on this thread must believe that they can debate like with a common criminal instead of applying the principles of high velocity physics.

I disagree. Crime stats should fall immediately by the logic used by gun control advocates. Simply put, if you take guns from those who abide by the law they are at increased risk for violence resulting in their catastrophic death.

As to suicide, a person should feel free enough to live their life to the fullest. They should also be able to determine when they can end it. If we legally allow a person to sign a "Do Not Resuscitate" in regards to their medical treatment by personnel, then where is the rationale in determining that, 'others may kill you, including medical staff and criminals, but you can not kill yourself.'

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO FEEL COMPETENT LAW-ABIDING CITIZENS SHOULD NOT BE ABLE TO OWN GUNS, PLACE THE BURDEN OF PROOF! SHOW HOW MANY LICENSED CCW PERMIT OWNERS HAVE COMMITTED VIOLENT CRIMES.

Um, ORegon -- if that's what you're talking about -- did not authorize death on demand. It requires that you have a terminal illness, be in suffering and have the consent of two physicians. I hardly think handing a gun to every depressed teenager is a good idea, do you?

As for the first part of your post, if that's how you feel in your home, I can well understand why you'd want a gun.

 

[musclebrains]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear

"develop" a black market trade??? where the fuck do YOU live, under a rock???? there already IS a heavy black market trade... As stated in my post, the people abiding by the law on how to get a gun aren't the ones out committing the crimes.... As to proving you need one, again, where do you live??? I should have the right to protect my home/family from intruders BY WHATEVER MEANS NECESSARY!!!! I HAVE in the past had someone break into my house when my family was home. Let me tell you, it could possibly be the most violated feeling you could have... Fortunately for the dumbass would-be robber, who by the way ignored the 50 fuckin beware of dog signs posted all over my property, my doberman got to him before I did w/my 12guage, and I almost felt bad for the stupid fuck as my dog proceeded to tear him to shreds, which I allowed to continue until I was satisfied that he wasn't going anywhere. My point is, the people that want to own a gun to properly provide protection for thier family and thier posessions aren't the ones committing weapon related crimes... the people that don't obey the law to get guns will not be stopped by a law that outlaws the sale of guns, because they don't obtain them legally anyways.... c'mon people, you can't be that blind.....

as far as handgun suicide being a problem, well, how to answer to that..... hmmmmmm, people kill themselves all kinds of ways, the do it with drugs, suicide by cop, jumping off a bridge, etc.... are we to now outlaw bridges because people jump off them to kill themselves??? c'mon man, gimme a break.... A person that TRULY wants to kill themselves is going to find a way to do it no matter what, outlawing guns won't help those stats....

LOL..I'm quite aware there's a black market trade in guns. I meant, of course, that it would prosper all the more in a climate of strict gun control.

I've been burglarized while I was at home too. Twice in fact. My cats were not an effective deterrent.

 

[FLASHMAN1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to

Um, ORegon -- if that's what you're talking about -- did not authorize death on demand. It requires that you have a terminal illness, be in suffering and have the consent of two physicians. I hardly think handing a gun to every depressed teenager is a good idea, do you?

As for the first part of your post, if that's how you feel in your home, I can well understand why you'd want a gun.

I'd love to see your opinion after you've experienced a home invasion/robbery, and had to watch some piece of shit hold a gun to one of your loved one's heads... All you liberal bedwetters are the same until something like that happens to you... then you blame it on the police for not protecting you well enough.... jagoffs

 

[FLASHMAN1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to

LOL..I'm quite aware there's a black market trade in guns. I meant, of course, that it would prosper all the more in a climate of strict gun control.

Bro, that's exactly my point.... EXACTLY.... taking guns away from law-abiding citizens would do NOTHING but put us (the general public) in more danger....

 

[musclebrains]

Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear arms

You have a very good point here. Here in Canada, handguns are virtualli forbidden (except for law agencies....). And guess what ? We still have violent crimes. Criminal have always and will always find a way to get their candies. From the 87 homicides in Montreal last year, at least 6-7 of them could have been avoided if the victim had a gun in his/her hands. RyanH, I know you have your opinions but remember this, if a criminal wants to kill someone, he will; no matter what weapon he has he will definitely commit the crime. Your laws may not be perfect but at least, give your people a chance to defend themselves.

Nobody argues that making handguns illegal will eliminate violent gun crime.

How long have handguns been forbidden there and what was the rate of handgun death prior to outlaw? Were those 87 homicides all by gun?

 

[musclebrains]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right

Bro, that's exactly my point.... EXACTLY.... taking guns away from law-abiding citizens would do NOTHING but put us (the general public) in more danger....

I'm not convinced this is true, for the reason I"m not convinced gun ownership provides more protection than opportunity for violence. I mean you can take this to the nth power and advocate gun ownership by every citizen of the United States. Do we really want to live in that kind of world?