Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear arms

[FLASHMAN1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal r

I'm not convinced this is true, for the reason I"m not convinced gun ownership provides more protection than opportunity for violence. I mean you can take this to the nth power and advocate gun ownership by every citizen of the United States. Do we really want to live in that kind of world?

every citizen??? no.... Every citizen that has the ability to pass a mandated weapon safety course and does not have a felonious criminal record??? ABSOLUTELY!!!!! I have no fear of a law abiding citizen being in ownership of a weapon of ANY kind, because I am not a criminal. Therefore, I'm not worried about getting shot in someone else's home as I attempt to rob them....

 

[manny78]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear arms

Nobody argues that making handguns illegal will eliminate violent gun crime.

How long have handguns been forbidden there and what was the rate of handgun death prior to outlaw? Were those 87 homicides all by gun?

Handguns have always been hard to get in Canada (you could but with a good reason). They've officially been forbidden (as well as semi-auto military riffles) in 1995. Thing is: the rate didnt change. In fact, in the last 2 years we've seen more crimes than ever (due to the bikers war). Those 87 homicides were not all by guns. AT least a good 12-15 happened between bikers, another 8 were done with hunting riffles. Of course there's crimes done with handguns, but now people will use instead baseball bat, crowbar..... Honestly if you ask me how I'd like to die I would rather prefer a bullet in my head than 8-10 hits with a bat....

 

[musclebrains]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right

I'd love to see your opinion after you've experienced a home invasion/robbery, and had to watch some piece of shit hold a gun to one of your loved one's heads... All you liberal bedwetters are the same until something like that happens to you... then you blame it on the police for not protecting you well enough.... jagoffs

Liberal bedwetter? How about we talk about this without name-calling. Your temper makes me quite unwilling to support your particular credibility as a safe gun owner.

I already said, I've been burglarized twice.

I've also had a cousin and uncle kill themselves with handguns. I have a client whose son, tormented at school by bullies, sat down at the dinner table and shot himself in the head. I'm sure you're aware of the common report that gun ownership increases the likelihood of homocide in the home 43 times over. So the argument that people will find a way to kill someone when gripped by passion or depression is simply not true. Guns are designed to kill.

I pose the reasonable question whether the protection guns offer is greater than the opportunity for violence they create. I'm not saying a gun isn't a deterrent or useful in a threat. Otherwise, I'd disarm the police, which I'm not advocating.

 

[musclebrains]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for person

every citizen??? no.... Every citizen that has the ability to pass a mandated weapon safety course and does not have a felonious criminal record??? ABSOLUTELY!!!!! I have no fear of a law abiding citizen being in ownership of a weapon of ANY kind, because I am not a criminal. Therefore, I'm not worried about getting shot in someone else's home as I attempt to rob them....

Sorry, but I don't want to live in a world where everyone who can operate a gun and hasn't been to prison is armed. And neither do the majority of Americans, as we found out in repeated polls after Littleton.

Criminals ambush people. The idea that you're gonna go get your gun out of a case when a lunatic breaks into your bedroom to shoot you in the head is just silly.

 

[gymnpoppa]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for pe

Sorry, but I don't want to live in a world where everyone who can operate a gun and hasn't been to prison is armed. And neither do the majority of Americans, as we found out in repeated polls after Littleton.

Criminals ambush people. The idea that you're gonna go get your gun out of a case when a lunatic breaks into your bedroom to shoot you in the head is just silly.

What he said.

 

[musclebrains]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear arm

Handguns have always been hard to get in Canada (you could but with a good reason). They've officially been forbidden (as well as semi-auto military riffles) in 1995. Thing is: the rate didnt change. In fact, in the last 2 years we've seen more crimes than ever (due to the bikers war). Those 87 homicides were not all by guns. AT least a good 12-15 happened between bikers, another 8 were done with hunting riffles. Of course there's crimes done with handguns, but now people will use instead baseball bat, crowbar..... Honestly if you ask me how I'd like to die I would rather prefer a bullet in my head than 8-10 hits with a bat....

I assume you are aware this is a miniscule number of deaths compared to American large cities. THere were 28,000 deaths due to guns in this country in 1999. There were 1720 in New YOrk City's five boroughs in 1990. By 1998, with an agressive gun control law and enforcement, the number dropped to 520. One third of handgun deaths are of people under 24, by the way.

 

[manny78]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear

I assume you are aware this is a miniscule number of deaths compared to American large cities. THere were 28,000 deaths due to guns in this country in 1999. There were 1720 in New YOrk City's five boroughs in 1990. By 1998, with an agressive gun control law and enforcement, the number dropped to 520. One third of handgun deaths are of people under 24, by the way.

Guns IMO are like drugs, alcohol and many other things in life: it's all about education. If you know how and when to use them you shouldnt have any problems. Now I have a question for you: what do you think of Taser shock guns ?

 

[FLASHMAN1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal r

Liberal bedwetter? How about we talk about this without name-calling. Your temper makes me quite unwilling to support your particular credibility as a safe gun owner.

I already said, I've been burglarized twice.

I've also had a cousin and uncle kill themselves with handguns. I have a client whose son, tormented at school by bullies, sat down at the dinner table and shot himself in the head. I'm sure you're aware of the common report that gun ownership increases the likelihood of homocide in the home 43 times over. So the argument that people will find a way to kill someone when gripped by passion or depression is simply not true. Guns are designed to kill.

I pose the reasonable question whether the protection guns offer is greater than the opportunity for violence they create. I'm not saying a gun isn't a deterrent or useful in a threat. Otherwise, I'd disarm the police, which I'm not advocating.

Ok, I apologize for name-calling..... Back to discussion. I am sorry for the loss of your family members, that's a horrible way to go, HOWEVER.... Do you think that without guns being involved, those people that truly WANT to die would not find other means??? Of course they would.... As to your client whose son commited suicide for "being tormented by school bullies", Maybe if your client had been more involved in his son's life as far as allowing him the oppurtunity to talk about things, that could've been avoided. I know a LOT of people (myself included) that had to put up with some form of torment as children, and they don't ALL blow thier brains out.... Obviously there are more underlying problems there, maybe that you are unaware of also... A lot of today's gun related crimes that are commited by young people could've been avoided simply by parents being more involved in thier children's lives... For example, Columbine.... The parents of those kids expect us to believe that thier children had guns and pipe bombs in thier rooms without thier knowledge... HMMMMM, a joint, MAYBE a small bottle of liquor I'd believe, but shotguns and pipe bombs?????? NO FUCKIN WAY!!!! those parents were negligent at BEST!!!! Again, another situation where the criminals did not obtain thier weapons by legal means....

 

[musclebrains]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for person

Ok, I apologize for name-calling..... Back to discussion. I am sorry for the loss of your family members, that's a horrible way to go, HOWEVER.... Do you think that without guns being involved, those people that truly WANT to die would not find other means??? Of course they would.... As to your client whose son commited suicide for "being tormented by school bullies", Maybe if your client had been more involved in his son's life as far as allowing him the oppurtunity to talk about things, that could've been avoided. I know a LOT of people (myself included) that had to put up with some form of torment as children, and they don't ALL blow thier brains out.... Obviously there are more underlying problems there, maybe that you are unaware of also... A lot of today's gun related crimes that are commited by young people could've been avoided simply by parents being more involved in thier children's lives... For example, Columbine.... The parents of those kids expect us to believe that thier children had guns and pipe bombs in thier rooms without thier knowledge... HMMMMM, a joint, MAYBE a small bottle of liquor I'd believe, but shotguns and pipe bombs?????? NO FUCKIN WAY!!!! those parents were negligent at BEST!!!! Again, another situation where the criminals did not obtain thier weapons by legal means....

A. My cousin was 14. He got his father's gun out of the closet and killed himself intentionally, left a note after his girlfriend broke up with him. Crazy shit. But, yes, I think it would have been much more unlikely that he would have thrown himself off a skyscraper, taken poison or slit his wrists.

B. I hardly said that every tormented kid kills himself. I'm talking about discouraging suicide. My client's son killed himself with his father's gun.

I really despise the way people blame parents for their children's violent resort to guns. My client was at her son's school every week for a year and tried to transfer him. The system wouldn't permit it. Happily, the kid's death ended up in the adoption of a law that has become model.

One-third of gun deaths are of people under 24.

 

[musclebrains]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to

Guns IMO are like drugs, alcohol and many other things in life: it's all about education. If you know how and when to use them you shouldnt have any problems. Now I have a question for you: what do you think of Taser shock guns ?

Guns are designed for one purpose: to kill. Drugs and alcohol are not.

I haven't thought much about the tasers.