16 Year old, Needs Help.

[stoneyhrm]

Well, I've been skinny as a kid. And I just started lifting about 1.5 years ago, as my Dad said my muscles were not ready yet.

So anyway, my routine is working 2 groups a week. Example. Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday of 1 week = Biceps and shoulders. Next week 2 = Forearms and shoulders.

The reason I have to do shoulders alot is because of my thin shoulders. I need to get broad shoulders. So is doing 2-3 groups a week as good as doing differnet ones each day?

Also, what body group is the front deltoids.

 

[Tatyana]

Hi and welcome.

Your workout is not clear, would you mind writing it out like

Monday=Legs

Tuesday=Back

etc.

Also, if you are the 'skinny' type you MAY be what is referred to as an ectomorph or hardgainer. That is a big MAYBE as you are still young and will fill out naturally as you get older.

Have you ever had a puppy or kitten and watched them grow? They often go from skinny little things to skinny bigger things, then they fill out.

People are the same.

You may also want to think that training 5 days a week may not be beneficial for building more muscle. Two or three times a week with good rest and diet may be better, especially if you are doing other sports.

Over-training will slow down, even reverse muscle growth for a lot of people.

 

[FriendlyCanadian]

Hey bro, I'd only recommend one thing, is not to lift to heavily on things like squats and leg presses, because your likely still growing and not at your max height yet, I lifted every weight in the gym when I was younger then you and I really think it stunted my growth. be careful duder!

 

[ceo]

A good thing for beginners is either a powerlifting routine or something like the 3x5. Look for a book called Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. You want to learn the basic compound movements and get your form down correctly, then keep adding weight every time you go back in the gym. I would go with a mon-wed-fri type schedule.

Check out Sculelos' log on the forum:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w.../sculelos-weight-log-profile-pics-550581.html

He's a young, tall, skinny guy who's put on over 30 lbs. in less than a year doing the 3x5. He is making steady progress week after week, and if he keeps it up, in a few years he'll be a monster.

MOST IMPORTANTLY...read this STICKY at the top of the forum about Training Info:
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/w...xercises-articles-more-start-here-484815.html

You will find the 3x5 there.

Good luck.

 

[layinback]

great thread and lots of good advice so far.

young man, i was veeery skinny at your age. i was involved in martial arts and we
did lots of calisthenics......very little weight training.

as the above post tell you,
study study study ( knowledge is power )
train smart......don't overtrain ( more is better doesn't apply to weight training)
educate yourself concerning diet ( 90% is eating enough- properly )

you are making enough testosterone to grow like a weed. be patient, bb'ing is a
marathon not a sprint.

good luck young man

randy

 

[GUARDIAN]

find yourself a training partner as well.

 

[searay]

as one of the above posts mentions, your not done growing yet and if your not careful you can fuse your growth plates and end your growth. do not go heavy and attempt lifts in the 1-6 rep range. keep the weights light enough to get at least 8+ reps and stay away from forced reps and training to failure. this is a great time to work on your form. tatyana had great advice as to not overtrain. you should train 3 days a week max and stick to the basics.
something like;
mon - squats 3 sets / 8-12 reps
calf raises 3 sets / 8-12 reps
wend - bench 3 sets 8-12 reps
military 3 sets 8-12 reps
dips 3 sets 1-2 reps from failure
fri - deadlift 3 sets 8-12 reps every 2 weeks
power rows 3 sets 8-12 reps every 2 weeks, switch with deads
pull ups 3 sets 1-2 reps from failure
bar bell curls 3 sets 8-12 reps alternate with d.b. curls each week
all sets should be stopped 1-2 reps from failure
this may not seem like much but it will help you build size and avoid stunting your growth. your focus should be on excellent form. good luck......

 

[AVFC]

I'm the same age as you & since i've been on the 5x5 (sticky FULL of information at the top of the board) I have grown well & become alot more vascular, I would recommend it 110%.

 

[skyflyer231]

Well, I've been skinny as a kid. And I just started lifting about 1.5 years ago, as my Dad said my muscles were not ready yet.

So anyway, my routine is working 2 groups a week. Example. Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday of 1 week = Biceps and shoulders. Next week 2 = Forearms and shoulders.

The reason I have to do shoulders alot is because of my thin shoulders. I need to get broad shoulders. So is doing 2-3 groups a week as good as doing differnet ones each day?

Also, what body group is the front deltoids.

Dude, this is totally wrong.

I don't know how anyone else hasn't noticed it yet. But no matter what routine you decide to do you need to be working out your ENTIRE body throughout the week.

Just to clarify: HE IS DOING 2 MUSCLE GROUPS, AND WORKING IT 4 TIMES A WEEK, AND THEN CHANGING. SO HE IS PLANNING ON JUST WORKING HIS BICEPS AND SHOULDERS ONLY FOR A FULL WEEK. AND THEN AFTER THAT HE IS PLANNING ON DOING FOREARMS AND SHOUDLERS FOR A FULL WEEK.

This is totally wrong dude. I just want to point that out to you. I suggest you just sit and read these boards. Read the stickies first.

 

[ceo]

Dude, this is totally wrong.

I don't know how anyone else hasn't noticed it yet. But no matter what routine you decide to do you need to be working out your ENTIRE body throughout the week.

Just to clarify: HE IS DOING 2 MUSCLE GROUPS, AND WORKING IT 4 TIMES A WEEK, AND THEN CHANGING. SO HE IS PLANNING ON JUST WORKING HIS BICEPS AND SHOULDERS ONLY FOR A FULL WEEK. AND THEN AFTER THAT HE IS PLANNING ON DOING FOREARMS AND SHOUDLERS FOR A FULL WEEK.

This is totally wrong dude. I just want to point that out to you. I suggest you just sit and read these boards. Read the stickies first.

I noticed, and I think others did too. Most of us were just trying to point him in the right direction the way you did by echoing what I wrote about reading the stickies.

 

[AEKDB]

Hey bro, I'd only recommend one thing, is not to lift to heavily on things like squats and leg presses, because your likely still growing and not at your max height yet, I lifted every weight in the gym when I was younger then you and I really think it stunted my growth. be careful duder!

I think I have been away from these boards too long. Where are we getting this stuff? Most high school students by the age of 16 have started lifting weights as part of gym class or football training. Many of these students squat heavy weights for reps! If your statement is true we would expect the population of former high school football players to be shorter than average. There are no studies, that I am aware of, that point to this. Given the large % of the population that lifted weights in high school we should also see the average height of males decrease during the late half of the prior century but it did not.

Final nail in coffin is my personal experience as I grew three inches in college while my squat went from 200lbs to 500+.

 

[FriendlyCanadian]

I think I have been away from these boards too long. Where are we getting this stuff? Most high school students by the age of 16 have started lifting weights as part of gym class or football training. Many of these students squat heavy weights for reps! If your statement is true we would expect the population of former high school football players to be shorter than average. There are no studies, that I am aware of, that point to this. Given the large % of the population that lifted weights in high school we should also see the average height of males decrease during the late half of the prior century but it did not.

Final nail in coffin is my personal experience as I grew three inches in college while my squat went from 200lbs to 500+.

Well that's what the fucking Doctors.. with PHD's will tell you..

just saying..

I leg pressed about 1200 lbs when I was 14 or so, and I'm pretty sure it MIGHT have stunted my growth maybe not.. I cheated a bit.. with my hands on my knees.. but it wasn't the best idea..

Everybody is different just because YOU Grew doesn't mean others haven't stuned thier growth lifting to much with improper form.

 

[ceo]

I don't think lifting "heavy" (however heavy a 14-16 y/o can lift) is going to stunt growth or fuse any plates. Using steroids too young can though.

 

[skyflyer231]

I noticed, and I think others did too. Most of us were just trying to point him in the right direction the way you did by echoing what I wrote about reading the stickies.

I really just want to make sure he understands what he is doing now is very wrong. Which no one else seemed to do. I remember back when I started working out.

I would do just the things that I wanted to get big also. Mostly my pecs and biceps. And I would work them like 5 days a week with some other random things thrown in.

I wish someone would have told me how wrong it was right when I started. I remember actually even after people told me that it was wrong. I would still do it becuase no one was insistant that I change the way I worked out.

If I went back in time and knew exactly just how completely wrong it was I would be miles ahead of where I am now.

 

[ceo]

If I went back in time and knew exactly just how completely wrong it was I would be miles ahead of where I am now.

lol...we all would bro.

 

[FriendlyCanadian]

I don't think lifting "heavy" (however heavy a 14-16 y/o can lift) is going to stunt growth or fuse any plates. Using steroids too young can though.

maybe you're right, and that's just what I say to make myself sleep better at night, haha.

My birth father was 6'5 though, the docs told me I was going to be like 6'3.. and I AM NOT!

though maybe I'm still growing.. that would be soooo awesome...

 

[AEKDB]

Well that's what the fucking Doctors.. with PHD's will tell you..

just saying..

I leg pressed about 1200 lbs when I was 14 or so, and I'm pretty sure it MIGHT have stunted my growth maybe not.. I cheated a bit.. with my hands on my knees.. but it wasn't the best idea..

Everybody is different just because YOU Grew doesn't mean others haven't stuned thier growth lifting to much with improper form.

You ignored the logical argument I laid out prior to my personal experience. Further you site your personal experience as proof that it must be true although you do not know how tall you would have grown had you not lifted a single weight ever (in fact you could have been even shorter).

Could lifting at a very young age (under 13) possibly stunt growth? From the studies I have read yes but this is based on theory as well since it is impossible to perform a control test. Again, we have a large population of males who have lifted weight on a regular basis starting at the age of 14 to 16 and there is no evidence that this population is shorter than average.

I can not site my source since there is NO evidence that this population is shorter than average. Since you are saying there is evidence that this population (i.e. males 14 to 16 who lifted on a regular basis through high school) is shorter than average (growth stunted by weight lifting), please site your sources.

 

[FriendlyCanadian]

Enough with the language and personal attacks FC. If you want to argue in an adult manner that's fine but if you continue with this crap you won't be allowed here.

And please respect the original member by staying on topic. This goes to all participants in this thread.

Cheers,
Scotsman

 

[stoneyhrm]

I understand what you guys are talking about how I should just let myself fill out and not lift to heavily. And You say that I just have to give it time.

I'm just mad because my school is full of football players/basketball players, and people my age are bigger than me.

It is just really hard to be called skinny.

 

[djeclipse]

Well that's what the fucking Doctors.. with PHD's will tell you..

They will also tell you not to squat below parallel and deadlift is bad for you. Which is also a complete load of BS.

 

[djeclipse]

I understand what you guys are talking about how I should just let myself fill out and not lift to heavily. And You say that I just have to give it time.

That is not what they (most) are saying. Train core movements like Squat, Deadlift, Bench press, Rows, add weight to the bar with these lifts and eat and you will grow.

Have a look at this work out, give it a try, read the info there and let us know how it goes, even start a journal here.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=13263164&postcount=3

If you have any questions about the lifts or the program let us know. Learning to performing the lifts properly is key.

 

[stoneyhrm]

Sorry for double post I don't know how to edit on this forum

But anyways, I really don't know much about weight lifting. Like, what you guys are saying. I've just been doing dumbell sitting shoulder presses alot because of my thin shoulders. And I sometimes do barbell presses to work on pecs. But I just do my shoulders alot because they are not broad, I need to get them Broad.

What is it called when you are natually skinny like me? Just so when people at school call me it I can say something, and not get so mad.

 

[djeclipse]

Read above.

When you're naturally skinny it's called not eating enough.

Eat and train, you will grow.

 

[stoneyhrm]

Read above.

When you're naturally skinny it's called not eating enough.

Eat and train, you will grow.

I thought it was called a very fast Metabalism?

 

[djeclipse]

I thought it was called a very fast Metabalism?

Fast, average, slow, in the end you gain or loose weight based on how many calories you eat vs how many calories you burn.

Fast matabalism, not growing = eat more

With good training and a caloraic excess you will gain muscle. Without training or poor training yo will gain fat.

But it really is as simple as eat more calories then you burn and you will gain weight.

 

[djeclipse]

I thought it was called a very fast Metabalism?

If you already had a term for it, why did you ask here what it was called?

 

[FriendlyCanadian]

Enough with the language and personal attacks FC. If you want to argue in an adult manner that's fine but if you continue with this crap you won't be allowed here.

And please respect the original member by staying on topic. This goes to all participants in this thread.

Cheers,
Scotsman

Well I feel like I should send you a pm for this Scottsman.

Also I was staying on topic, and what crap maybe we can discuss this in an "Adult" manner, since I can no longer see the post in question since you edited it. maybe you have a copy you can pm me.

Anyhow, wasn't trying to start shit or attack anyone personally. I'm sorry you saw it that way.

I was just trying to pass on some information something that my doctor told me, who is a highly educated man, though he may not be entirely right, I still find it's not horrible advice as I heard it alot when I was lifting at a young age.

 

[skullcrushin22]

You just got to give it time when I was 16 I was 6'2'' 175 and I hit 223 when I was 21 with about 12% bf. Dont be discouraged, starting to learn and get your technique perfect now will pay off in the long run. The 3*5 is a great place to start.

 

[deathdroprob]

I thought it was called a very fast Metabalism?

hey man, Im olny 18, and since taking the advice from the guys off this boad Ive pt so much weight on, so fast of have heasp of stretch marks, legs, shoulders, biceps, like everywhere. It only happened when I started eating decently.

Since you skinny, learn about the basics of food, and take a rough count of protein each day. Say Like Me, I eat a meal with 30+ grams of protein every 2-3 hours.

I know it might sound a bit technical and boring but it really isnt that. Just google it and ask around these boards. It will work for you. I did for me, now Im bigger than most people I know.

 

[silver_shadow]

BTW docs don't have PHd's.... maybe that's where the problem lay... you went to a phd doc!

anyway, this is an old and outdated myth of weightlifting stunting growth. there are plenty of little kids in the eastern bloc countries who are lifting much earlier than the rest of the world and producing great results... and they do it with full scientific backing too.

glen pendlay has his 5 yr old lifting albeit just to learn technique since he's alot younger.

the reason you aren't tall could be many - there's no way to say that since your father was 6'5" you HAVE to be at least 6'3". genetics doesn't always work in such a straightforward way because there are recessive genes from previous generations which might influence someone a few generations down the line rather than the immediate one. that's why the child of an african and a caucasian isn't necessarily going to be in between in terms of skin colour.

(@ friendly canadian)

 

[djeclipse]

BTW docs don't have PHd's.... maybe that's where the problem lay... you went to a phd doc!

anyway, this is an old and outdated myth of weightlifting stunting growth. there are plenty of little kids in the eastern bloc countries who are lifting much earlier than the rest of the world and producing great results... and they do it with full scientific backing too.

glen pendlay has his 5 yr old lifting albeit just to learn technique since he's alot younger.

the reason you aren't tall could be many - there's no way to say that since your father was 6'5" you HAVE to be at least 6'3". genetics doesn't always work in such a straightforward way because there are recessive genes from previous generations which might influence someone a few generations down the line rather than the immediate one. that's why the child of an african and a caucasian isn't necessarily going to be in between in terms of skin colour.

(@ friendly canadian)

Well said.

 

[ceo]

PhD is a doctorate degree. Medical Doctorate = MD, and some of them even have PhD's too. The PhD guys are usually professors somewhere or doing research in a lab.

But, I agree about it not being able to be proved conclusively that beginning weightlifting at a young age can stunt growth. I don't think there's any merit to that.

 

[FriendlyCanadian]

BTW docs don't have PHd's.... maybe that's where the problem lay... you went to a phd doc!

anyway, this is an old and outdated myth of weightlifting stunting growth. there are plenty of little kids in the eastern bloc countries who are lifting much earlier than the rest of the world and producing great results... and they do it with full scientific backing too.

glen pendlay has his 5 yr old lifting albeit just to learn technique since he's alot younger.

the reason you aren't tall could be many - there's no way to say that since your father was 6'5" you HAVE to be at least 6'3". genetics doesn't always work in such a straightforward way because there are recessive genes from previous generations which might influence someone a few generations down the line rather than the immediate one. that's why the child of an african and a caucasian isn't necessarily going to be in between in terms of skin colour.

(@ friendly canadian)

You're probably right, sorry about the PHD thing I thought all doctors had to get a PHD, he was an MD I believe, whatever you'd call a family doctor. I mean ya really just cause a doctor says you're gonna be 6'3 doesn't nessisarly mean that you are. this was just a caution he gave me, and I thought that perhaps the leg press might have caused my growth to be stunted..

it's wierd though, I'm getting taller at 23.. is that even possible? my friend said holy fuck you're taller.. and I was like.. holy fuck I am..

or could that just be my back straightening out?? (sorry that's a bit of a thread hijack)

he told me you risk fusing your growth plates if you lift to heavily with lifts that put pressure on your knees, you guys all have very good sources and what seems like reliable information, so It's hard for what my doctor said to hold much of any water.

Seriously though at his age, I don't see the point in lifting heavy, I do believe that he could get just as much of out higher reps at lighter weight working on perfect forum and developing his joints and then move to heavier weights when he's older. Heavier weights definitely does increase the chance for injury.

 

[silver_shadow]

You're probably right, sorry about the PHD thing I thought all doctors had to get a PHD, he was an MD I believe, whatever you'd call a family doctor. I mean ya really just cause a doctor says you're gonna be 6'3 doesn't nessisarly mean that you are. this was just a caution he gave me, and I thought that perhaps the leg press might have caused my growth to be stunted..

it's wierd though, I'm getting taller at 23.. is that even possible? my friend said holy fuck you're taller.. and I was like.. holy fuck I am..

or could that just be my back straightening out?? (sorry that's a bit of a thread hijack)

he told me you risk fusing your growth plates if you lift to heavily with lifts that put pressure on your knees, you guys all have very good sources and what seems like reliable information, so It's hard for what my doctor said to hold much of any water.

Seriously though at his age, I don't see the point in lifting heavy, I do believe that he could get just as much of out higher reps at lighter weight working on perfect forum and developing his joints and then move to heavier weights when he's older. Heavier weights definitely does increase the chance for injury.

there's always a chance of injury in this sport and if someone doesn't want the risk then they could always take up chess. i think 14-16 is an ideal age to START learning the compound lifts on a good weightlifting program that stresses on steady increases in resistance. it's the best time when you can take advantage of the amount of testosterone in your body and pack on some serious mass. this guy explains it best:

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/ShitOrGetOffThePot1.html

 

[FriendlyCanadian]

there's always a chance of injury in this sport and if someone doesn't want the risk then they could always take up chess. i think 14-16 is an ideal age to START learning the compound lifts on a good weightlifting program that stresses on steady increases in resistance. it's the best time when you can take advantage of the amount of testosterone in your body and pack on some serious mass. this guy explains it best:

http://www.higher-faster-sports.com/ShitOrGetOffThePot1.html

He probably has more test in his body at 18-21 no?

Also I didn't say not to do the compound lifts, but what is to say that someone squatting 225 x 20 vs someone squatting 450 x 6 isn't getting more out of his workout. Yes there is always a chance for injury, but the guy squatting 225 def has a less chance to injure himself, no?

 

[silver_shadow]

He probably has more test in his body at 18-21 no?

Also I didn't say not to do the compound lifts, but what is to say that someone squatting 225 x 20 vs someone squatting 450 x 6 isn't getting more out of his workout. Yes there is always a chance for injury, but the guy squatting 225 def has a less chance to injure himself, no?

maybe. maybe not. there was this time when i was doing a german volume training routine a few yrs ago. it's where you do 10x10 on major lifts. it beats the crap out of you. about the 3rd week i was into something like set 8 of bench and fatiguing. rep 8 or 9 and i was feeling like shit like i was supposed to and then i pushed real hard and ended up with a twinge in my delt. stopped right there and couldn't press for a few weeks. wasn't too serious luckily. higher volume isn't necessarily less risk as far as i'm concerned.

rippetoe has his HS kids lifting in the 5 rep range and pushing for PRs every workout i believe... they put on some serious mass. he's also a nationally credited strength coach so i'm guessing that he knows what he's doing.

 

[djeclipse]

He probably has more test in his body at 18-21 no?

Also I didn't say not to do the compound lifts, but what is to say that someone squatting 225 x 20 vs someone squatting 450 x 6 isn't getting more out of his workout. Yes there is always a chance for injury, but the guy squatting 225 def has a less chance to injure himself, no?

I certainly wouldn't say the guy squatting 225 x 20 has a less chance of getting injured.

1. Even with light weights if proper form isn't being used you can gt injured. It doesn't matter what weight/ rep range you are using.

I used to work at accuride, they make tire rims for heavy and light truck. There was a heavy truck line, we made the rims that went on the 18 wheelers. Those suckers were heavy. The light truck line made the smaller truck rims, some 15", they weer light.

Believe it or not, there were more muscle related injuries (back, joint pain etc. ) in the light truck line then the heavy truck. Even though the rims they were lifting were 1/3rd the weight, the higher repetation took a tole on the body.

2. When the rep range is higher, fatigue sets in and it is simply harder to keep proper form for 20, even 10 reps. So that 225 x 20 I would say is more prone to injury then the guy training in the 6 rep range. This is one of the reasons you don't see people training deadlift doing sets of 8-10, you are more prone to injury lifting in that rep range. As you fatigue it's hader and harder to keep form. Have you ever seen the vid of blut wump doing 20 rep squats? It's insane.

As Sliver Shadow said (he beat me to it...) rippetoe knows what he is doing.