15 weeks - EQ or Primo?

[dylangemelli]

NEITHER needs to be nor should be ran longer than 12 weeks... i can see a slight argument for eq with the ester but its not necessary and primo certainly has zero argument for the need for an extended period of time ran... my pick would always be primo over eq but ive been doing this well over a decade and used to fall into the eq trap of the need to run it longer and that is simply a bro science narrative that is not factual in reality

 

[dylangemelli]

Good day All,

Thank you for the responses. I appreciate it.

As for the suggestions with regards to log and pictures - I apologize but I would rather not share as to stay low-key. However, I do understand the benefit in sharing.

Moving on...

Diet:

High protein
Medium fat
Low carb

Majority of carbs are ingested around my morning workout, pre/intra/post.
Whenever I eat what is considered high fat, I will avoid carbs with that meal. When I eat high carbs, then I will keep fat to a minimum. Always with high protein as priority.
For example:
1.) If I eat T-bone steak, I cook it in butter and eat the fat with the meat I will include a veg or salad.
2.) If I eat lean meat with minimal fat I will eat it alongside high carb such as rice or potato

Taking the above mentioned into account, all meals will be +- 800 calories.
4x meals per day. If I see I am behind in calories I will include a 5th meal.

I usually burn about 3000 calories on training days, burning roughly 500-700 calories during a workout.
My current daily calorie intake is sitting at +- 2200cal.

My plan is to be in a daily surplus of 10% (3300 calories) while I lean bulk. After cycle I will try keep at maintenance calories with a "cheat meal" every now and then. I will do this to keep the gained muscle and to let my body get used to the added weight gained and let the muscle settle so to speak.
I will be happy with 10lbs solid lean mass by the end of the cycle, and the smile will stay on my face if I keep 70% of my gains 6 months after cycle.
I will most likely recover for about a year and reassess whether or or not to run it again.

Conclusion:

I have taken the advise to keep the cycle length of Test E and Primo to 12 weeks instead of 15 weeks. *Spoiler alert - I will be bumping the Primo up to 500mg/week (due to having more available by doing 12 weeks).

I've decided to go with option 2...
It feels like it will be a lot simpler to execute compared to option 1 and with relatively less sides to worry about.
ie: Less compounds that convert of estrogen.

Option 2 - Test E, Primo, Var
1-12: Test E 300mg/week
1-12: Primo E 500mg/week
13-15: Anavar 60mg ed

PCT:
Week +-16-18: HCG 3x 1500 iu (e5d)
Example: 1500, 1500, 1500, 500. (Total 5000iu)
thereafter,
Clomid: 50/25/25/25
Nolvadex: 40/40/20/20

AI on hand: Arimidex

1-22: 10% daily calorie surplus
23-~: Maintenance calorie intake (3000 calories/day)

Feel free to comment on the above cycle update.

Thanks bros!

the cycle itself looks far better in terms of the test and primo length and dose but nothing else looks good..

anavar for 3 weeks is too short... 4 weeks would be the absolute shortest time frame but the worst part of all this is the use of hcg in pct, which is the biggest hinderance and worst idea you could come up with... HCG IS SUPPRESSIVE AND it increases estrogen.. the two worst things you could ever do during pct...

when you use testosterone, you are clearly adding large amounts of it into your body which causes you to eventually be suppressed when you stop using it because your body forgets how to produce it on its own... hence, the need for pct... so, what hcg does is MIMIC your lh and fsh, just like taking testosterone, mimics testosterone production which eventually leads to suppression, correct... so when you mimic lh and fsh, what happens when you stop using it?? im sure you can put two and two together... the reason you use hcg is to get your lh and fsh STIMULATED before pct, so they are not completely bottomed out because when you use test, they are non existent... just like when you run an oral without test... when you go into pct, your test is bottomed out.... when you go into pct using test, AT LEAST its much higher making recovery easier as you reteach your body to produce on its own... so if you use hcg BEFORE pct, then it gives that boost while your body learns how to produce on its own... HOWEVER, if you run hcg IN PCT or after, you end up suppressing yourself because you are just mimicking, not helping to jumpstart anything like nolva and clomid do for your natural testosterone production... NOT TO MENTION, hcg ALSO increases estrogen...

 

[Lets_Go_Bro!]

the cycle itself looks far better in terms of the test and primo length and dose but nothing else looks good..

anavar for 3 weeks is too short... 4 weeks would be the absolute shortest time frame but the worst part of all this is the use of hcg in pct, which is the biggest hinderance and worst idea you could come up with... HCG IS SUPPRESSIVE AND it increases estrogen.. the two worst things you could ever do during pct...

when you use testosterone, you are clearly adding large amounts of it into your body which causes you to eventually be suppressed when you stop using it because your body forgets how to produce it on its own... hence, the need for pct... so, what hcg does is MIMIC your lh and fsh, just like taking testosterone, mimics testosterone production which eventually leads to suppression, correct... so when you mimic lh and fsh, what happens when you stop using it?? im sure you can put two and two together... the reason you use hcg is to get your lh and fsh STIMULATED before pct, so they are not completely bottomed out because when you use test, they are non existent... just like when you run an oral without test... when you go into pct, your test is bottomed out.... when you go into pct using test, AT LEAST its much higher making recovery easier as you reteach your body to produce on its own... so if you use hcg BEFORE pct, then it gives that boost while your body learns how to produce on its own... HOWEVER, if you run hcg IN PCT or after, you end up suppressing yourself because you are just mimicking, not helping to jumpstart anything like nolva and clomid do for your natural testosterone production... NOT TO MENTION, hcg ALSO increases estrogen...

The anavar is just there to bridge and wait for esters to clear before I start PCT. That's why the Var is only there for 3 weeks. But I get you, it does seem like a slight waste. I'll push to 6 weeks.

I understand it like that, so my placement of HCG is incorrect then?


Would you say that the below looks better structured in terms of HCG and PCT:

Amended
Option 2 - Test E, Primo, Var
1-12: Test E 300mg/week
1-12: Primo E 500mg/week
10-15: Anavar 60mg ed

PCT:
Week 14-15: HCG 3x 1500 iu (e5d)
Example: 1500, 1500, 1500, 500. (Total 5000iu)
thereafter,
16-19: Clomid: 50/25/25/25
16-19: Nolvadex: 40/40/20/20

Your thoughts?

Thank you!

 

[Tiger Salman Khan]

Would love to see your log dude.....it will allow us to help you better..........

 

[Lets_Go_Bro!]

Would love to see your log dude.....it will allow us to help you better..........

Hi there Tiger,

I have had a look at the various examples of logs that many have recommended. However, I am not planning on doing a log for privacy reasons and I simply don't have the time to log every detail. I do apologize for that inconvenience.

What I am mostly concerned with is the cycle itself and the structure of it. Any assistance with that is greatly appreciated.
I have already amended the cycle I am planning having taken and used advice from the bros on this forum.

Now all that is left to do is to finalize the tweaking of the cycle structure.

With regards to my training, the below is what I have been doing and so far it has worked very well.

Training:
Push/Pull/Legs Split.
I usually train two days on and one day off. I simply just pick up where I left off after a rest day.
I pay attention to my body and how I feel. For example, if I train hard for two days and feel I need a rest then I take a rest. If I feel I could do another hard session I will skip the rest and train and take the rest the day after.

I make a point not to have more than three hard training sessions consecutively. If I feel I need two days rest, I'll take two days rest.
Usually my rest days are active rest days where I do low intensity cardio like walking, playing golf etc. Cardio intensity that is easy enough to have an uninterrupted conversation.

When I train I train very close to failure sometimes to failure and I tend to keep the volume low.
My sets and reps are as follows:
3 working sets of a target rep range of 8-10. Usually the first 4 reps are "easy" and after that the bar starts to slow down and this is where I feel the magic happens. Full muscle recruitment. These I call my "true" reps.

If I happen to choose my weight incorrectly and get to 10 reps with relative ease then I would pump out a few more reps until I get close to/to failure. The next set I would up the weight to increase intensity to allow myself to end with 8-10 reps when I hit failure.
Always making sure I execute my reps with good form of course.

If my form suffers, I abort and select a weight that allows me to execute my reps with good form and allows me to reach 8-10 reps as mentioned.

To add, I focus on compound lifts first and end with isolation exercises.
When I get to Isolation exercises, my reps might increase from 8-10 to 10-12 as to allow me to do slightly more reps with a lighter load. I still take them to or close to failure.
I usually do 15-20 working sets per training session. I try to keep volume to maximum of 20 working sets per muscle group per week.

For example,
Push Day:
3x Flat bench press
3x Incline bench press
3x Smith machine shoulder press
3x Dips (bodyweight, reps to failure each set)
3x Lateral raises
2x Tricep Extensions
2x Tricep Pushdown

Pull Day:
3x Lat pull down
3x Bent over rows
3x T-bar row
3x Seated cable row
3x Reverse Fly
2x Bicep curl
2x Hammer curl

Leg Day:
3-5x Barbell back squats
3x Deadlift
2x Lunges (bodyweight, reps to failure)
3x Leg extensions
3x Leg curls
4x Calves (Leg press machine/seated raises)

 

[dylangemelli]

The anavar is just there to bridge and wait for esters to clear before I start PCT. That's why the Var is only there for 3 weeks. But I get you, it does seem like a slight waste. I'll push to 6 weeks.

I understand it like that, so my placement of HCG is incorrect then?


Would you say that the below looks better structured in terms of HCG and PCT:

Amended
Option 2 - Test E, Primo, Var
1-12: Test E 300mg/week
1-12: Primo E 500mg/week
10-15: Anavar 60mg ed

PCT:
Week 14-15: HCG 3x 1500 iu (e5d)
Example: 1500, 1500, 1500, 500. (Total 5000iu)
thereafter,
16-19: Clomid: 50/25/25/25
16-19: Nolvadex: 40/40/20/20

Your thoughts?

Thank you!

test and primo looks great on dosing and length... there are several other things that need changed on timing and dosing etc...

1-12 test e 300 mg week
1-12 primo 500 mg week
1-12 aromasin or arimidex (as needed based upon your estrogen sensitivity or lack thereof)
9-14 anavar 50 mg day
11-14 hcg 1000 ius week
9-14 n2guard

pct 15-18


when you are in pct, you are going to get a major spike in cortisol... cortisol is termed the "gains killer" for a reason... it will put you into a catabolic state which will not allow you to build muscle and at the same time will eat it away, on top of the fact you will also get unwanted fat gain... so you will lose muscle and gain fat that you had just busted your ass an entire cycle for... GW and MK prevent the rise in cortisol... not only that but they keep you performing at a level you were while on cycle being the ultimate performance enhancers they are... on top of the fact that mk2866 is the ultimate for healing and recovery, which is imperative in pct as well as keeping strength up to a very high level... gw will also treat cholesterol and blood pressure, which are definitely things that need addressed in pct as well… N2Guard plays a pivotal role in a post-cycle therapy (PCT). There’s a strong misconception that the role of a PCT is simply to restart the natural testosterone production that was shut down from the steroid cycle. While this is true, there are a lot of the other issues that the body has to deal with during a PCT: hormone fluctuations, high liver enzymes, increased blood pressure, pressure on the kidneys and endocrine system, high stress and cortisol levels, the list goes on…N2Guard helps address all of these problems and helps you recover in a timely manner. The quicker you recover, the less likelihood of any long-term problems occurring, and the more likely that all gains you make during your cycle are retained.

clomid 50/50/25/25
nolva 40/40/20/20
aromasin (adjust as needed)
N2Guard
mk-2866 25 mg day
gw-501516 20 mg day

 

[Lets_Go_Bro!]

test and primo looks great on dosing and length... there are several other things that need changed on timing and dosing etc...

1-12 test e 300 mg week
1-12 primo 500 mg week
1-12 aromasin or arimidex (as needed based upon your estrogen sensitivity or lack thereof)
9-14 anavar 50 mg day
11-14 hcg 1000 ius week
9-14 n2guard

pct 15-18


when you are in pct, you are going to get a major spike in cortisol... cortisol is termed the "gains killer" for a reason... it will put you into a catabolic state which will not allow you to build muscle and at the same time will eat it away, on top of the fact you will also get unwanted fat gain... so you will lose muscle and gain fat that you had just busted your ass an entire cycle for... GW and MK prevent the rise in cortisol... not only that but they keep you performing at a level you were while on cycle being the ultimate performance enhancers they are... on top of the fact that mk2866 is the ultimate for healing and recovery, which is imperative in pct as well as keeping strength up to a very high level... gw will also treat cholesterol and blood pressure, which are definitely things that need addressed in pct as well… N2Guard plays a pivotal role in a post-cycle therapy (PCT). There’s a strong misconception that the role of a PCT is simply to restart the natural testosterone production that was shut down from the steroid cycle. While this is true, there are a lot of the other issues that the body has to deal with during a PCT: hormone fluctuations, high liver enzymes, increased blood pressure, pressure on the kidneys and endocrine system, high stress and cortisol levels, the list goes on…N2Guard helps address all of these problems and helps you recover in a timely manner. The quicker you recover, the less likelihood of any long-term problems occurring, and the more likely that all gains you make during your cycle are retained.

clomid 50/50/25/25
nolva 40/40/20/20
aromasin (adjust as needed)
N2Guard
mk-2866 25 mg day
gw-501516 20 mg day

Thanks for this.

Three questions though...

1. Does GW and MK not suppress testosterone?
2. Would it not be counter productive in PCT?
3. Do you use it along side clomid and nolva?

ie: Ostarine (MK) and Cardarine (GW)

 

[Lets_Go_Bro!]

PS: I have no experience with SARMS...

 

[25homes]

I go EQ all day

 

[dylangemelli]

Thanks for this.

Three questions though...

1. Does GW and MK not suppress testosterone?
2. Would it not be counter productive in PCT?
3. Do you use it along side clomid and nolva?

ie: Ostarine (MK) and Cardarine (GW)

i literally laid out a full explanation on the pct... 1. gw is NOT suppressive whatsoever... 2. mk is NOT suppressive in only 4 weeks of use.. 3. i am sorry, not trying to be an ass, but i cannot spoon feed it and lay it out any easier than i just did.. there is a FULL explanation, along with exactly how to run the pct... so im not sure how else i can lay it out for you to make it any easier...