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POST CYCLE RECOVERY:..............RADAR'S STICKEY
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jatca69
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here is one from WCB
Not sure of your question but here is a post from BB4l.
It covers pct and anti e''s
Ok. I’ll admit it. I didn’t know much about anti-estrogens and their ilk before I started researching this article. And I’ll admit another thing: I didn’t care. I knew that 10mgs of Nolvadex per day was all I ever needed to not get gyno, though 50 mgs/day of Clomid seemed to work the same for me. Cytadren (remember that stuff?) worked for me also, at 250mgs/day, but it seemed to make me more prone to joint problems. HCG worked best for me when I shot 500i.u. every other day post cycle for about 3 weeks. Arimadex was too expensive. AND THAT’S ALL I NEEDED TO KNOW!
Now nobody uses Cytadren anymore. We have affordable Arimadex (Anastrozole) in liquid form. We have Femera. And I had work to do to catch up.
In the long run, I wasn’t that interested in what all this other stuff did because I already knew what worked for me. Well, keep reading and you’ll find out why I was wrong, what my new plan is for during a cycle and post-cycle recovery, and some other interesting stuff about not getting any side effects from roids.
Here we go!
So, first things first. Some steroids convert to estrogen. This is through the aromatase enzyme, and is called (duh) aromatization. When this happens you can get side effects associated with having too much estrogen, including bloating, gynocomastia, acne, and so on. Some steroids on the other hand, have progesteronic activity (deca, for example). The symptoms (acne, etc...) are the more or less the same for progesteronic and estrogenic effects. Note that I didn’t say that these other steroids convert to progesterone, but rather that they have progesteronic effects. That’s because the steroid is able to act on the progesterone receptor without conversion to another substance. Hence, on my current 600mgs per week of Deca and my 750mgs per week of Test, anti-estrogens will only help with the aromatization of the test and not the progesteronic activity of the Deca I’m taking. Know what else? Here are a bunch of other compounds that don't aromatize (thats good news) activity and hence don't needm any amount of anti-estrogens: Methenolone, Stanozolol, Dromostanolone, Oxandrolone, Mesterolone, Stenbolone, and Trenbolone. Taking a big dose of any of these? Anti –estrogens won’t help much if at all, per se, but keeping estrogen levels low is still a good idea. Remember, estrogen still has a role to play, even sides, in ways we don't fully understand yet. Not only that but if you take progesteronic gear and use nolvadex, you may be at an increased risk for progesteronic sides, as nolvadex may increase progesterone receptors (Gynecol Oncol. 1999 Mar;72(3):331-6.).
What can you do?
Well, the easy answer is to take bromocriptine (parlodel) at 2.5 to 5mg every day. Bromocriptine is one of those drugs that the life-extention crowd were very big on a few years ago. It is an anti-parkinsons medication which causes higher levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine, with side effects being an increased sex drive, possible curbing of appetite, possible stimulation of CNS, and fat loss. It’s also indicated for some forms of male hypogonadism (yeah, so it may increase test levels on its own!). However, what we’re interested in here is that it can be used to lower prolactin and progesterone. [Side note: A few tabs of Cabergoline per day will also lowe prolactin and improve sexual function. I just couldn't figure out where else this would fit into this post.] Back to Bromo...it sounds almost perfect, right? Well, unfortunately, bromocriptine is also used to treat acromegaly (too much GH produced by the pituitary), and ergo may lower GH levels in your body! Fortunately, the dosage needed to halt overproduction of GH in your body is 10-20mgs/day, so we’re safe with our amount necessary to stop from growing breasts from too much deca…and yes, all the cool fat burning, sex drive, and nootropic “side effects” happen at 2.5-5mgs/ day doses. As a side note, taking 25mcg of T3 or maybe 50-100mcgs of T4 may be effective for eliminating some if not all of the chance of getting gyno from tren. And yeah, I have the research to back that statement up, but it involves another page of reading about TRH, TSH, the negative feedback loop involved with low levels of T4 stimulating TRH, blah blah blah. Trust me, you don’t care about the reasons why this works, just that it does. If you’re doing tren, take some T3 and you’ll get increased fat-burning, no gyno, and more maybe even anabolism. So if I were cutting up, tren, T3 (25mcgs), and bromo would all be part of my stack , and I’d expect to get really cut really fast (of course, there’s other cool drugs I’d add into that mix…clen, test, etc…but this is about anciliaries, not a cutting cycle).
Another idea to reduce progesterone is to take RU486 (yeah, the pregnancy drug). This drug has anti-progesteronic effects, and in women 600mgs totally plocks progesterone. Don’t even think about taking this dose, though…I’d reccomend taking around 50 mgs a day and working your way up. Remember, cortisol is also decreased with RU486, so sore joints may be a problem. Considering this, bromo’s cool secondary effects, and price, I’d consider bromocriptine a better choice.
So what steroids do aromatize? Here’s the some of the worst offenders: Testosterone, Methandrostenolone, Boldenone , Fluoxymesterone, (only in high enough doses)…you get the idea.
And Deca...yeah it even aromatizes, besides being a progestin, though not much.
Everyone still with me?
Okay, so what are some drugs that inhibit aromatization? Cytadren (aminoglutethemide), at 250-500mgs per day will do the trick, as will Arimidex at .5-1mg per day (more about Arimidex later, and remember, this is all dependant on what doses of aromatizing drugs you’re taking). Cytadren also limits the conversion of test to DHT, which may help eliminate any hair loss during a cycle. [Finesteride (Propecia = 1mg tabs, Proscar = 5mg tabs) has similar effects with regards to halting some of DHT’s negative effects.]. Cytadren may also slightly inhibits test production, so that kinda turns me off to it. Especially when other drugs actually increase test production and will prevent side effects more effectively. Unfortunately, cytadren has a really short ½ life, and it ideally should be taken 2-3x a day. That plus its cortisol inhibiting effects (and the sore joints you get from that) don’t make it really ideal for me. On the bright side, Cytadren may improve blood lipid profiles.
What else can we do to avoid side effects? Well, we can block the receptors that the estrogen attaches itself to, thus causing the side effects. Clomid (Clomiphine Citrate) and Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) will do this. As these drugs are selective in their activity, they are estrogenic to certain receptors (blood lipid profiles are favorably enhanced by the estrogenic action of these drugs), and antiestrogenic to others (they are anti-estrogenic in terms of their action on breast tissue, for example…and yes I know that Nolvadex is actually a weak estrogen that blocks out the competing stronger estrogens with regards to attaching to the receptors in breast tissue…I’m trying to keep things relatively simple, though). Generally Nolvadex is cheaper than Clomid, and thus more often used.
Now dig this: According to William LLewellyn, studies conducted in the late 1970's at the University of Ghent in Belgium used Nolvadex for 10 days at a dosage of 20mg daily, which increased serum testosterone levels to 142% of baseline, on par with the effect of 150mg of Clomid daily for the same duration! Depending on what you read into this, I’d say that Nolvadex is a superior buy for post-cycle recovery. That being said, Nolvadex is good, but not quite perfect, as it lowers IGF-1 levels. Post-cycle, though, when I’m worried about returning test-levels to normal, I’m not too worried about IGF-1 levels. Though, I’ve found testicular atrophy during a cycle is attenuated to a greater degree by Clomid. So besides competing with estrogen at the receptor, these drugs both increase serum test levels, and both drugs may also alter blood lipid profiles. I couldn't find the studies W.L. mentioned, but still found that 20mgs of tamoxifen is equal to 150mgs of clomid for purposes of testosterone elevation, FSH and LH, but tamixifen did not decrease the LH response to LHRH (Fertil Steril. 1978 Mar;29(3):320-7.). Thus, I'd still reccomend Nolv over clomid. Actually, I think nolvadex is far superior to clomid for most purposes.
As Nolvadex isn’t actually an anti-aromatase, but rather a competitor for the receptor site, and seeing as it increases test levels so much, I’d say that it’s actually a better post-cycle drug than Clomid. At least I know that it’s what I’ll be using post-cycle, even despite its effects on IGF-1.
Cyclofenil (remember that drug?) will do just about everything with regards to halting estrogen’s binding to receptors that the other two drugs I just discussed will do, but helps LH production to a greater degree. Lowering your LH (in addition to having an adverse effect on the general recovery of your entire hormonal system) will also contribute to estrogenic-type effects. Raising LH = Good. Lowering LH = Bad. Most people take a tab or 2 per day of this stuff, in any case. There’s better stuff on the market, though.
Now onto Femara (AKA Letrozol), which is more effective than Arimidex in it's ability to pass thru the cell membrane of lipid (fat) cells and inhibit the activity of aromatase -- Arimidex is just over 80% effective at inhibiting aromatase, Femara is around 95-97%. Other than that, both of these drugs stop the process of aromatization, rather than just blocking the receptors as Clomid and Nolvadex do. An effective dose of Letrozole is 1-2.5 mg/day, but be forewarned, it can kill your sex drive, and could decrease IGF levels. On the other hand, I’ve seen studies where it increases IGF levels. Also worth noting is that there’s a rebound effect when you come off letrozol. As of this time, the jury is still out this drug, in my mind.
(1. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7 2. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 1997 Nov-Dec;63(4-6):261-7)
How about Aromasin? Well, its totally different than everything else we’ve looked at so far. Aromasin (exemestane) it is a aromatase inactivator...It actually makes estrogen receptors useless. Instead of just inhibiting production (as an anti-aromatase would do) it cuts off production totally. Aromasin can effectively prevent about 90-95% of estrogen conversion. And though it won’t kill your sex drive, just like Nolvadex, it decreases IGF-1 levels by about 23-24%. Worth noting is that Aromasin may be less harsh on blood lipids than most of the other compounds mentioned here (with the exception of Nolvadex which may actually improve HDL & LDL).
Lets talk about Arimadex (Anastrozole), now. From the research I’ve done, this seems to be the best thing around and I’ll tell you why. First off, ‘dex is an aromatase inhibitor (remember what that is?). 1mg per day of this stuff (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7, “Estrogen Suppression in Males”) was shown to decrease estrogen by 50% and increase testosterone levels by 58%. LH and FSH also went up slightly. The test increase didn’t happen at a dose of .5 per day, but estrogen suppression was the same. Anastrozole also raises IGF1 and shows a trend towards increasing IGF2 (J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2002 Apr;80(4-5):411-8) BTW, literature provided by the original maker of Arimadex states that stable blood plasma concentrations of the compound are achieved after 7 consecutive 1mg daily doses. All of that plus the usual blood lipid changes we’ve seen with most of the anciliaries we’ve looked at! Anyway, that’s a pretty hefty decrease in estrogen, even at .5mg/day. For my money, if I wanna stop aromatization during a cycle, I’m gonna use Arimadex at .5mgs per day. Its the perfect during-cycle ancillary.
What about HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin)? For starters, it increases (stimulates) endogenous (natural) testosterone production. It’s ideal for post-cycle. I’ve found personally that 500IU every other day or even every day, post-cycle works best for me. Incidentally, this is the PDR (and Dan Duchaine's) reccomendation. In one study I looked at, 6000IU of HCG elevated test levels for 6 days. That’s why a lot of people recommend taking it every 3-5 days. I’d have more stable blood levels, though if I shot it more frequently …remember, it’s a water-based injectable, after all. In that same study I read, 1500IU of HCG shot test levels up between 250 and 300%. Again, though, I’d be more comfortable with the more stable and slow increase. Also, keep in mind that HCG suppresses FSH and LH production and has been anecdotally linked to gyno. Thus, it (in combination with Nolvadex) is ideal for post-cycle recovery…when gyno is not as much of an issue (due to the nolvadex and the cessation of other compounds), but restoring natural test levels is.
SO…lets review:
During a cycle (because I ALWAYS use test in my cycles), I think it’s a good idea to use Arimadex at .5-1mg per day, 2 take care of aromatization, thus preventing side effects related to estrogen. If I’m using gear that has progesteronic side effects , I'm gonna avoid nlovadex, and I’m gonna have to throw in some Bromocriptine at 2.5-5mgs every day, especially when I’m using lots of Tren (and perhaps trying to get cut) I’d want the added "side effects" we already discussed from the Bromo, and I'd thrown in that T3 as well. When I’m all done with the cycle, Nolvadex (at 10-20mgs/day for a month) post cycle, plus 500-1000 IU of HCG every other day (for 2-3 weeks) will help restore test levels to normal. Clomid at 50mgs per day will …umm….keep or return your nuts to a normal size, and will have anti-estrogenic and pro-gonadotropic effects. I like it during a cycle to keep my nuts big. Sorry, there’s no really polite way to say that stuff about keeping your nuts normal.... But in any case, I’d run the Clomid for about 2 weeks of the start of PCT if this was a concern, or during the cycle...possibly for the last 2 weeks, if you want. I use it quite alot, myself, during a cycle (100mgs/day). Although I've been shying away from it recently due to the relative inexpensiveness of other, better compounds...and the fact that clomid messes with my vision.
__________________
The Big Hungarian!!!!
MOD @
Chemicallyenhancedbodybuilding
Bodybuilding4life
Not sure of your question but here is a post from BB4l.
It covers pct and anti e''s
Ok. I’ll admit it. I didn’t know much about anti-estrogens and their ilk before I started researching this article. And I’ll admit another thing: I didn’t care. I knew that 10mgs of Nolvadex per day was all I ever needed to not get gyno, though 50 mgs/day of Clomid seemed to work the same for me. Cytadren (remember that stuff?) worked for me also, at 250mgs/day, but it seemed to make me more prone to joint problems. HCG worked best for me when I shot 500i.u. every other day post cycle for about 3 weeks. Arimadex was too expensive. AND THAT’S ALL I NEEDED TO KNOW!
Now nobody uses Cytadren anymore. We have affordable Arimadex (Anastrozole) in liquid form. We have Femera. And I had work to do to catch up.
In the long run, I wasn’t that interested in what all this other stuff did because I already knew what worked for me. Well, keep reading and you’ll find out why I was wrong, what my new plan is for during a cycle and post-cycle recovery, and some other interesting stuff about not getting any side effects from roids.
Here we go!
So, first things first. Some steroids convert to estrogen. This is through the aromatase enzyme, and is called (duh) aromatization. When this happens you can get side effects associated with having too much estrogen, including bloating, gynocomastia, acne, and so on. Some steroids on the other hand, have progesteronic activity (deca, for example). The symptoms (acne, etc...) are the more or less the same for progesteronic and estrogenic effects. Note that I didn’t say that these other steroids convert to progesterone, but rather that they have progesteronic effects. That’s because the steroid is able to act on the progesterone receptor without conversion to another substance. Hence, on my current 600mgs per week of Deca and my 750mgs per week of Test, anti-estrogens will only help with the aromatization of the test and not the progesteronic activity of the Deca I’m taking. Know what else? Here are a bunch of other compounds that don't aromatize (thats good news) activity and hence don't needm any amount of anti-estrogens: Methenolone, Stanozolol, Dromostanolone, Oxandrolone, Mesterolone, Stenbolone, and Trenbolone. Taking a big dose of any of these? Anti –estrogens won’t help much if at all, per se, but keeping estrogen levels low is still a good idea. Remember, estrogen still has a role to play, even sides, in ways we don't fully understand yet. Not only that but if you take progesteronic gear and use nolvadex, you may be at an increased risk for progesteronic sides, as nolvadex may increase progesterone receptors (Gynecol Oncol. 1999 Mar;72(3):331-6.).
What can you do?
Well, the easy answer is to take bromocriptine (parlodel) at 2.5 to 5mg every day. Bromocriptine is one of those drugs that the life-extention crowd were very big on a few years ago. It is an anti-parkinsons medication which causes higher levels of the neurotransmitter dopamine, with side effects being an increased sex drive, possible curbing of appetite, possible stimulation of CNS, and fat loss. It’s also indicated for some forms of male hypogonadism (yeah, so it may increase test levels on its own!). However, what we’re interested in here is that it can be used to lower prolactin and progesterone. [Side note: A few tabs of Cabergoline per day will also lowe prolactin and improve sexual function. I just couldn't figure out where else this would fit into this post.] Back to Bromo...it sounds almost perfect, right? Well, unfortunately, bromocriptine is also used to treat acromegaly (too much GH produced by the pituitary), and ergo may lower GH levels in your body! Fortunately, the dosage needed to halt overproduction of GH in your body is 10-20mgs/day, so we’re safe with our amount necessary to stop from growing breasts from too much deca…and yes, all the cool fat burning, sex drive, and nootropic “side effects” happen at 2.5-5mgs/ day doses. As a side note, taking 25mcg of T3 or maybe 50-100mcgs of T4 may be effective for eliminating some if not all of the chance of getting gyno from tren. And yeah, I have the research to back that statement up, but it involves another page of reading about TRH, TSH, the negative feedback loop involved with low levels of T4 stimulating TRH, blah blah blah. Trust me, you don’t care about the reasons why this works, just that it does. If you’re doing tren, take some T3 and you’ll get increased fat-burning, no gyno, and more maybe even anabolism. So if I were cutting up, tren, T3 (25mcgs), and bromo would all be part of my stack , and I’d expect to get really cut really fast (of course, there’s other cool drugs I’d add into that mix…clen, test, etc…but this is about anciliaries, not a cutting cycle).
Another idea to reduce progesterone is to take RU486 (yeah, the pregnancy drug). This drug has anti-progesteronic effects, and in women 600mgs totally plocks progesterone. Don’t even think about taking this dose, though…I’d reccomend taking around 50 mgs a day and working your way up. Remember, cortisol is also decreased with RU486, so sore joints may be a problem. Considering this, bromo’s cool secondary effects, and price, I’d consider bromocriptine a better choice.
So what steroids do aromatize? Here’s the some of the worst offenders: Testosterone, Methandrostenolone, Boldenone , Fluoxymesterone, (only in high enough doses)…you get the idea.
And Deca...yeah it even aromatizes, besides being a progestin, though not much.
Everyone still with me?
Okay, so what are some drugs that inhibit aromatization? Cytadren (aminoglutethemide), at 250-500mgs per day will do the trick, as will Arimidex at .5-1mg per day (more about Arimidex later, and remember, this is all dependant on what doses of aromatizing drugs you’re taking). Cytadren also limits the conversion of test to DHT, which may help eliminate any hair loss during a cycle. [Finesteride (Propecia = 1mg tabs, Proscar = 5mg tabs) has similar effects with regards to halting some of DHT’s negative effects.]. Cytadren may also slightly inhibits test production, so that kinda turns me off to it. Especially when other drugs actually increase test production and will prevent side effects more effectively. Unfortunately, cytadren has a really short ½ life, and it ideally should be taken 2-3x a day. That plus its cortisol inhibiting effects (and the sore joints you get from that) don’t make it really ideal for me. On the bright side, Cytadren may improve blood lipid profiles.
What else can we do to avoid side effects? Well, we can block the receptors that the estrogen attaches itself to, thus causing the side effects. Clomid (Clomiphine Citrate) and Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) will do this. As these drugs are selective in their activity, they are estrogenic to certain receptors (blood lipid profiles are favorably enhanced by the estrogenic action of these drugs), and antiestrogenic to others (they are anti-estrogenic in terms of their action on breast tissue, for example…and yes I know that Nolvadex is actually a weak estrogen that blocks out the competing stronger estrogens with regards to attaching to the receptors in breast tissue…I’m trying to keep things relatively simple, though). Generally Nolvadex is cheaper than Clomid, and thus more often used.
Now dig this: According to William LLewellyn, studies conducted in the late 1970's at the University of Ghent in Belgium used Nolvadex for 10 days at a dosage of 20mg daily, which increased serum testosterone levels to 142% of baseline, on par with the effect of 150mg of Clomid daily for the same duration! Depending on what you read into this, I’d say that Nolvadex is a superior buy for post-cycle recovery. That being said, Nolvadex is good, but not quite perfect, as it lowers IGF-1 levels. Post-cycle, though, when I’m worried about returning test-levels to normal, I’m not too worried about IGF-1 levels. Though, I’ve found testicular atrophy during a cycle is attenuated to a greater degree by Clomid. So besides competing with estrogen at the receptor, these drugs both increase serum test levels, and both drugs may also alter blood lipid profiles. I couldn't find the studies W.L. mentioned, but still found that 20mgs of tamoxifen is equal to 150mgs of clomid for purposes of testosterone elevation, FSH and LH, but tamixifen did not decrease the LH response to LHRH (Fertil Steril. 1978 Mar;29(3):320-7.). Thus, I'd still reccomend Nolv over clomid. Actually, I think nolvadex is far superior to clomid for most purposes.
As Nolvadex isn’t actually an anti-aromatase, but rather a competitor for the receptor site, and seeing as it increases test levels so much, I’d say that it’s actually a better post-cycle drug than Clomid. At least I know that it’s what I’ll be using post-cycle, even despite its effects on IGF-1.
Cyclofenil (remember that drug?) will do just about everything with regards to halting estrogen’s binding to receptors that the other two drugs I just discussed will do, but helps LH production to a greater degree. Lowering your LH (in addition to having an adverse effect on the general recovery of your entire hormonal system) will also contribute to estrogenic-type effects. Raising LH = Good. Lowering LH = Bad. Most people take a tab or 2 per day of this stuff, in any case. There’s better stuff on the market, though.
Now onto Femara (AKA Letrozol), which is more effective than Arimidex in it's ability to pass thru the cell membrane of lipid (fat) cells and inhibit the activity of aromatase -- Arimidex is just over 80% effective at inhibiting aromatase, Femara is around 95-97%. Other than that, both of these drugs stop the process of aromatization, rather than just blocking the receptors as Clomid and Nolvadex do. An effective dose of Letrozole is 1-2.5 mg/day, but be forewarned, it can kill your sex drive, and could decrease IGF levels. On the other hand, I’ve seen studies where it increases IGF levels. Also worth noting is that there’s a rebound effect when you come off letrozol. As of this time, the jury is still out this drug, in my mind.
(1. J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7 2. J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 1997 Nov-Dec;63(4-6):261-7)
How about Aromasin? Well, its totally different than everything else we’ve looked at so far. Aromasin (exemestane) it is a aromatase inactivator...It actually makes estrogen receptors useless. Instead of just inhibiting production (as an anti-aromatase would do) it cuts off production totally. Aromasin can effectively prevent about 90-95% of estrogen conversion. And though it won’t kill your sex drive, just like Nolvadex, it decreases IGF-1 levels by about 23-24%. Worth noting is that Aromasin may be less harsh on blood lipids than most of the other compounds mentioned here (with the exception of Nolvadex which may actually improve HDL & LDL).
Lets talk about Arimadex (Anastrozole), now. From the research I’ve done, this seems to be the best thing around and I’ll tell you why. First off, ‘dex is an aromatase inhibitor (remember what that is?). 1mg per day of this stuff (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7, “Estrogen Suppression in Males”) was shown to decrease estrogen by 50% and increase testosterone levels by 58%. LH and FSH also went up slightly. The test increase didn’t happen at a dose of .5 per day, but estrogen suppression was the same. Anastrozole also raises IGF1 and shows a trend towards increasing IGF2 (J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2002 Apr;80(4-5):411-8) BTW, literature provided by the original maker of Arimadex states that stable blood plasma concentrations of the compound are achieved after 7 consecutive 1mg daily doses. All of that plus the usual blood lipid changes we’ve seen with most of the anciliaries we’ve looked at! Anyway, that’s a pretty hefty decrease in estrogen, even at .5mg/day. For my money, if I wanna stop aromatization during a cycle, I’m gonna use Arimadex at .5mgs per day. Its the perfect during-cycle ancillary.
What about HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin)? For starters, it increases (stimulates) endogenous (natural) testosterone production. It’s ideal for post-cycle. I’ve found personally that 500IU every other day or even every day, post-cycle works best for me. Incidentally, this is the PDR (and Dan Duchaine's) reccomendation. In one study I looked at, 6000IU of HCG elevated test levels for 6 days. That’s why a lot of people recommend taking it every 3-5 days. I’d have more stable blood levels, though if I shot it more frequently …remember, it’s a water-based injectable, after all. In that same study I read, 1500IU of HCG shot test levels up between 250 and 300%. Again, though, I’d be more comfortable with the more stable and slow increase. Also, keep in mind that HCG suppresses FSH and LH production and has been anecdotally linked to gyno. Thus, it (in combination with Nolvadex) is ideal for post-cycle recovery…when gyno is not as much of an issue (due to the nolvadex and the cessation of other compounds), but restoring natural test levels is.
SO…lets review:
During a cycle (because I ALWAYS use test in my cycles), I think it’s a good idea to use Arimadex at .5-1mg per day, 2 take care of aromatization, thus preventing side effects related to estrogen. If I’m using gear that has progesteronic side effects , I'm gonna avoid nlovadex, and I’m gonna have to throw in some Bromocriptine at 2.5-5mgs every day, especially when I’m using lots of Tren (and perhaps trying to get cut) I’d want the added "side effects" we already discussed from the Bromo, and I'd thrown in that T3 as well. When I’m all done with the cycle, Nolvadex (at 10-20mgs/day for a month) post cycle, plus 500-1000 IU of HCG every other day (for 2-3 weeks) will help restore test levels to normal. Clomid at 50mgs per day will …umm….keep or return your nuts to a normal size, and will have anti-estrogenic and pro-gonadotropic effects. I like it during a cycle to keep my nuts big. Sorry, there’s no really polite way to say that stuff about keeping your nuts normal.... But in any case, I’d run the Clomid for about 2 weeks of the start of PCT if this was a concern, or during the cycle...possibly for the last 2 weeks, if you want. I use it quite alot, myself, during a cycle (100mgs/day). Although I've been shying away from it recently due to the relative inexpensiveness of other, better compounds...and the fact that clomid messes with my vision.
__________________
The Big Hungarian!!!!
MOD @
Chemicallyenhancedbodybuilding
Bodybuilding4life
Question DRJMW:
I am very prone to estrogenic sides! I have already had gyno removed so I of course will have nolvadex on hand in case symptoms arise!
Would you choose arimidex or femara to run during my cycle to keep estrogen formation low? I know femara is stronger but its effectiveness also decreases when nolva is run at the same time!
Could one still develop gyno even while running femara?
Would arimidex maybe the better choice as it is not effected by nolvadex adminsteration?
Here is my planned cycle:
1-7 winny tabs @ 50mg/ED
1-12 EQ @500mg/week
1-14 Prop @ 100mg/EOD
9-16 Var @ 50mg/ED
HCG run 4-500IU's every days
PCT will be with nolva, clen, unleashed!
Thank you for your input!
I am very prone to estrogenic sides! I have already had gyno removed so I of course will have nolvadex on hand in case symptoms arise!
Would you choose arimidex or femara to run during my cycle to keep estrogen formation low? I know femara is stronger but its effectiveness also decreases when nolva is run at the same time!
Could one still develop gyno even while running femara?
Would arimidex maybe the better choice as it is not effected by nolvadex adminsteration?
Here is my planned cycle:
1-7 winny tabs @ 50mg/ED
1-12 EQ @500mg/week
1-14 Prop @ 100mg/EOD
9-16 Var @ 50mg/ED
HCG run 4-500IU's every days
PCT will be with nolva, clen, unleashed!
Thank you for your input!
heres some more good info...its long..ill just post the link..
http://forums.anabolicreview.com/showthread.php?t=94626
http://forums.anabolicreview.com/showthread.php?t=94626
I have written extensively about PCT and the proper use of ancillaries. My PCT has never failed. It works for everyone. Make any PCT work fast and efficiently, one needs to keep his AAS dosing moderate and use correct ancillaries. It really is that simple. Many users have no idea what their baseline Testosterone, estradiol, and prolactin levels are. And many of these same users are wasting their time with any PCT, for their natural levels are low to begin with. Do not assume that jsut because you are young and healthy that your levels are decent--you may be fooling yourself.
evolutionoftherevolution
New member
DrJMW said:
DrJMW, can you point us to that post?
