New to working out. My "Plan" Eh?

[Mass Insanity]

No, I wouldn't say that at all. Beginners lack general work capacity. Beginners lack technique. Beginners lack the ability to work intensely enough to require much recovery. Does squatting 135 do the same damage to the body as squatting 405? Of course not. You're not going to overtrain in a period of a few weeks, especially when you're not capable of stressing the body very hard.

And I hope I don't have to explain why machines are not any safer for a beginner.

Personally I think 135 will do the same amount of damage 405 would do considering the youth of the muscle. And why wouldn't machines be safer for beginners..lol They control the movement and have directons on the side for god sakes. I don't think its a question of over training the body I think its a question of setting a new person up with solidadvice thats safe and measurable. That he can use longer than a few weeks.. you know maybe a little routine just incase he wants to work out longer thank 3 weeks. but i dunno

 

[PWR]

No, I wouldn't say that at all. Beginners lack general work capacity. Beginners lack technique. Beginners lack the ability to work intensely enough to require much recovery. Does squatting 135 do the same damage to the body as squatting 405? Of course not. You're not going to overtrain in a period of a few weeks, especially when you're not capable of stressing the body very hard.

And I hope I don't have to explain why machines are not any safer for a beginner.

The only way that beginners learn the ropes is to throw it to them and let them grab it. No sense bullshitting with all the machines and doing the whole body routine, people new at it get bored easily and doing the same thing over and over again throughout the week doesnt help. 135 can do just as much damage to new muscles as 405 can do to an advanced lifter. They way you do it correctly is to use light weights and learn form with real weights (dumbells and bars). A beginner will always be a beginner with free weights if they stay on machines. It doesnt matter how much you get use to or can do on some machine..... when you pick up the free weights he will have to learn all over again.

Like I said, my opinion is different from yours. Yours may work fine, but I would want to learn the correct way right from jump then to waste time on machines and multi body routines over and over. Not trying to be arguementative but we disagree on this subject.

 

[lockdownd7]

The only way that beginners learn the ropes is to throw it to them and let them grab it. No sense bullshitting with all the machines and doing the whole body routine, people new at it get bored easily and doing the same thing over and over again throughout the week doesnt help. 135 can do just as much damage to new muscles as 405 can do to an advanced lifter. They way you do it correctly is to use light weights and learn form with real weights (dumbells and bars). A beginner will always be a beginner with free weights if they stay on machines. It doesnt matter how much you get use to or can do on some machine..... when you pick up the free weights he will have to learn all over again.

Like I said, my opinion is different from yours. Yours may work fine, but I would want to learn the correct way right from jump then to waste time on machines and multi body routines over and over. Not trying to be arguementative but we disagree on this subject.

Ok, now let's not be an idiot. "No sense bullshitting with whole body routines"? I hope you're not serious. If you need any evidence of the effectiveness of such "bullshit" go check out the massive 5x5 thread I'm sure you seen on this site.

Recovery is not limited to the muscular system. The difference of the effect of a 135 squat and a 405 squat on the CNS is tremendous. Beginners aren't efficient enough at using their CNS to be able to inflict a lot of damage. That's why they don't need as much recovery. Muscles don't take that long to recover, comparatively.

 

[needtogetaas]

5x5 and get some fucking core..

 

[PWR]

Ok, now let's not be an idiot. "No sense bullshitting with whole body routines"? I hope you're not serious. If you need any evidence of the effectiveness of such "bullshit" go check out the massive 5x5 thread I'm sure you seen on this site.

Recovery is not limited to the muscular system. The difference of the effect of a 135 squat and a 405 squat on the CNS is tremendous. Beginners aren't efficient enough at using their CNS to be able to inflict a lot of damage. That's why they don't need as much recovery. Muscles don't take that long to recover, comparatively.

No sense in name calling tough guy. We dont agree on the whole body routine idea. I think the guy needs to learn with core lifts, free weights and a split routine. You dont... get over it. I dont really give a shit.

 

[lockdownd7]

No sense in name calling tough guy. We dont agree on the whole body routine idea. I think the guy needs to learn with core lifts, free weights and a split routine. You dont... get over it. I dont really give a shit.

You're obviously welcome to your opinion (although "opinion" isn't really relevant in this discussion), but I would think you'd be willing to defend it when questioned. I'm just surprised that you would be so firmly anti-whole body routine when all you appearing to base that position off of is limited anecdotal evidence.

 

[PWR]

You're obviously welcome to your opinion (although "opinion" isn't really relevant in this discussion), but I would think you'd be willing to defend it when questioned. I'm just surprised that you would be so firmly anti-whole body routine when all you appearing to base that position off of is limited anecdotal evidence.

The only evidence I base my knowledge off of is what has worked for me over the years. And when I started out years ago I tried the whole body every other day stuff and looked at books, read up, etc etc. And nothing worked for me except getting in there and learning from the iron itself and what my body told me. And what worked best for me was splitting the muscles up, hitting them once a week, do alittle cardio on the other days, being consistent, eating, rest and recovery. Thats all I was telling the guy, I believe that its better to start with free weights, learn good core lifts, good form and take your time. People get way to technical with these little note pads, stop watches and articles when the only real thing that is gonna do it is to EAT, LIFT and REST.

Like I said, your idea is alittle different from mine. Mine is simple and it works. Yours may work as well. Its good for people to see different things and then use what works best for they're body. I hate that this thread has turned into us argueing over which routine will be best for him. Since we dont even know what experience if any at all he has or if he is looking to gain weight, lose weight or just get in shape period. Its alittle silly.

I would like however to see your progress pics and stats on yourself. With the firm beliefs you have I will assume your are a beast and very advanced lifter?

 

[lockdownd7]

The only evidence I base my knowledge off of is what has worked for me over the years. And when I started out years ago I tried the whole body every other day stuff and looked at books, read up, etc etc. And nothing worked for me except getting in there and learning from the iron itself and what my body told me. And what worked best for me was splitting the muscles up, hitting them once a week, do alittle cardio on the other days, being consistent, eating, rest and recovery. Thats all I was telling the guy, I believe that its better to start with free weights, learn good core lifts, good form and take your time. People get way to technical with these little note pads, stop watches and articles when the only real thing that is gonna do it is to EAT, LIFT and REST.

Like I said, your idea is alittle different from mine. Mine is simple and it works. Yours may work as well. Its good for people to see different things and then use what works best for they're body. I hate that this thread has turned into us argueing over which routine will be best for him. Since we dont even know what experience if any at all he has or if he is looking to gain weight, lose weight or just get in shape period. Its alittle silly.

I would like however to see your progress pics and stats on yourself. With the firm beliefs you have I will assume your are a beast and very advanced lifter?

The problem I have is that you interjected yourself into this discussion with the attitude that everything else besides your opinion is inferior. And when questioned about why you have this attitude, you respond with completely subjective, non-empirical answers. Basically, you're using YOUR personal experience and applying to everyone unequivocally. Which I hope you can understand is wrong.

And I also think you've misinterpreted the tone of my posts. Otherwise, you wouldn't have responded in the childish manner in which you did. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just showing you the fallacy of your position. Personal experience is a great teacher, but you can't just be content to say "Well, this worked, so therefore it will work in all circumstances". You've got to understand why something worked so you can know when/if it should be used. Hey, you even admit you started on a full body routine. Who's to say that didn't set up future gains by giving you a solid foundation (of work capacity and technique even if you didn't necessarily gain strength or size)? Beyond that, who's to say you properly implemented the routine when you did it? Apples =/= oranges; correlation =/= causation. Just some things for you to consider.

 

[PWR]

The problem I have is that you interjected yourself into this discussion with the attitude that everything else besides your opinion is inferior. And when questioned about why you have this attitude, you respond with completely subjective, non-empirical answers. Basically, you're using YOUR personal experience and applying to everyone unequivocally. Which I hope you can understand is wrong.

And I also think you've misinterpreted the tone of my posts. Otherwise, you wouldn't have responded in the childish manner in which you did. I'm not arguing with you, I'm just showing you the fallacy of your position. Personal experience is a great teacher, but you can't just be content to say "Well, this worked, so therefore it will work in all circumstances". You've got to understand why something worked so you can know when/if it should be used. Hey, you even admit you started on a full body routine. Who's to say that didn't set up future gains by giving you a solid foundation (of work capacity and technique even if you didn't necessarily gain strength or size)? Beyond that, who's to say you properly implemented the routine when you did it? Apples =/= oranges; correlation =/= causation. Just some things for you to consider.

Let me get this straight, you said "lets not be an idiot" and I am the one childish?
whatever dude, you are taking the same position. You are saying my method is not good and yours will work for everyone. How did they work for you? Never did hear the stats on the ole mighty one with all this vast knowledge?

 

[lockdownd7]

Let me get this straight, you said "lets not be an idiot" and I am the one childish?
whatever dude, you are taking the same position. You are saying my method is not good and yours will work for everyone. How did they work for you? Never did hear the stats on the ole mighty one with all this vast knowledge?

^^ Try making your argument more complex. Then it may fool someone

If you'll read my posts again, I never implied that "my method" works in every scenario. I just said that it's generally a better fit for someone like the OP. Whatever, it's been fun, but I can see that this is going nowhere. Unless you are able to find an intellectually worthwhile response, consider this my last post on the subject.