IRS Knew Teap Party Was Targeted for Additional Income Tax Scrutiny

[javaguru]

Of course he was made to resign. There's absolutely nothing astonishing about that. Perception is reality so when something like this comes out someone has to be fired, or "resign". lol
There's nothing here. A bunch of Tea party dbags wanted tax exemption without disclosing donors. For the record no liberal political organization should be allowed to do this either. Why a political organization would even be considered for 501 status is beyond me. All of those should be immediately revoked no matter the political affiliation.

FDR ordered audits personally on his political enemies.
JFK created a task force in the IRS to go after right wing groups.
LBJ used the IRS to target the anti-war movement.
Nixon, we all know about Nixon...

Using the IRS as a political weapon is as American as apple pie and Barry is just upholding that tradition; I would expect nothing less from a Chicago politician.

 

[Mr. dB]

Property and Inheritance Tax in Tennessee

The great State of Tennessee imposes the following taxes:
There is a 55 per cent Public Utility Property Tax
There is a 40 per cent Commercial and Industrial Property Tax
There is a 30 per cent Business Personal Property Tax
There is a 25 per cent Residential Property Tax
There is a 25 per cent Farm Property Tax

And more at the local level. We should do away with both.

Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury - State Board of Equalization - Property Tax Overview

Looks to me like you don't even know who you're writing checks to.

And those percentages you listed aren't tax rates, they're assessment rates.

 

[mrplunkey]

Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury - State Board of Equalization - Property Tax Overview

Looks to me like you don't even know who you're writing checks to.

And those percentages you listed aren't tax rates, they're assessment rates.

Oh yes I do. I wrote the checks to bureaucrats that waste the money.

 

[iamthatiam]

yeah bro we had an election last november.. seems like you are still campaigning as if its gonna make a difference, but to me its the sore loser mentality.. you should be getting ready for 2016 and finding a republican who is capable of winning a state that doesn't have more trailer parks and tornado's than people.

Where is the "like" button. lol

 

[kx250rider]

It's not only political organizations which have been targeted with senseless audits. Successful high-income individuals with highly profitable private businesses are also a target of this senseless auditing torment. A friend of my wife's said that her husband has gotten audited every year on his business and his personal returns, and has never made a mistake or cheated in his life, and never filed late. He makes plenty, and donates WAY more than he can write off, and the Gov't doesn't like people who do that because it debunks the whole anti-capitalism and anti-Wall St campaign by the Left. The joke will be on the IRS though, because he's going to retire and shut down his business due to all this tax hassle, and he can retire today as a multi-multi millionaire by firing 600 people and closing his business, which is; thanks to CA and Federal tax law, the most reasonable and sensible option. Why should he put up with anxiety and hassle with these audits every time, and having to pay accountants and lawyers to defend him every single year when he never did anything wrong? Would any of us bother to have a driver's license if we had to appear in court once a month to prove that we didn't speed, and needed witnesses and lawyers to be with us to prove that? The bus suddenly seems like a good idea if that were the case.

Charles

 

[javaguru]

It's not only political organizations which have been targeted with senseless audits. Successful high-income individuals with highly profitable private businesses are also a target of this senseless auditing torment. A friend of my wife's said that her husband has gotten audited every year on his business and his personal returns, and has never made a mistake or cheated in his life, and never filed late. He makes plenty, and donates WAY more than he can write off, and the Gov't doesn't like people who do that because it debunks the whole anti-capitalism and anti-Wall St campaign by the Left. The joke will be on the IRS though, because he's going to retire and shut down his business due to all this tax hassle, and he can retire today as a multi-multi millionaire by firing 600 people and closing his business, which is; thanks to CA and Federal tax law, the most reasonable and sensible option. Why should he put up with anxiety and hassle with these audits every time, and having to pay accountants and lawyers to defend him every single year when he never did anything wrong? Would any of us bother to have a driver's license if we had to appear in court once a month to prove that we didn't speed, and needed witnesses and lawyers to be with us to prove that? The bus suddenly seems like a good idea if that were the case.

Charles

The IRS needs to go away but there are too many politically connected groups lobbying to maintain the byzantine system. The ex-wife wanted me to be a tax attorney but even my hypocrisy has limits.

 

[Dial_tone]

USATODAY.com - NAACP calls IRS probe 'political,' refuses to comply

 

[75th]

The real scandal here is that so many groups on the right and the left have this tax exempt status which is clearly not being used for social welfare. They are political campaign groups in sheep's clothing. The mistake the IRS made was in not going after all of them.

 

[Mr. dB]

Oh yes I do. I wrote the checks to bureaucrats that waste the money.

Hard to say, since you don't even know where the checks went.

Do you still maintain that Tennessee has a State Property Tax?

 

[-SD-]

If someone like plunkey doesnt know where his check to the government is going, thats a sign the government is way too sprawling and convoluted in the first place.

 

[Mr. dB]

If someone like plunkey doesnt know where his check to the government is going, thats a sign the government is way too sprawling and convoluted in the first place.

Or a sign that someone else takes care of all that stuff for him.

Or that he's ignorant of the subject.

He doesn't know where the money is going, or what it's for, but he knows it's a waste...

 

[-SD-]

I know my federal tax dollars go to the "United States Treasury" but i think i can say its mostly a waste upon arrival so "what difference does it make"

 

[75th]

If someone like plunkey doesnt know where his check to the government is going, thats a sign the government is way too sprawling and convoluted in the first place.

Concerned by your standards in life if you consider plunkey an authority on anything. Pls be safe.

 

[bigbassturd]

No, you be safe bro

I know you're good at math, but you suck at driving. That's unsafe

 

[mrplunkey]

Concerned by your standards in life if you consider plunkey an authority on anything. Pls be safe.

You're just mad that I'm still putting the stale Christmas candy in the lobby.

 

[mrplunkey]

Hard to say, since you don't even know where the checks went.

Do you still maintain that Tennessee has a State Property Tax?

Well, considering that the right to tax property is provided by Tennessee State Code 67.5.101, then yeah -- I'd say Tennessee has a state property tax.

Or do you believe you Arkansas hayseeds could steal people's money with solely your own Hillbilly sheriff and no state authorization?

Tennessee Code
Title 67 - Taxes And Licenses
Chapter 5 - Property Taxes
Part 1 - Levy of Tax
67-5-101 - Property subject to tax generally.

 

[-SD-]

Concerned by your standards in life if you consider plunkey an authority on anything. Pls be safe.

I always use condoms

 

[Mr. dB]

Well, considering that the right to tax property is provided by Tennessee State Code 67.5.101, then yeah -- I'd say Tennessee has a state property tax.

Or do you believe you Arkansas hayseeds could steal people's money with solely your own Hillbilly sheriff and no state authorization?

Tennessee Code
Title 67 - Taxes And Licenses
Chapter 5 - Property Taxes
Part 1 - Levy of Tax
67-5-101 - Property subject to tax generally.

Does the fucking state collect property tax or not?

No. You're twisting in the wind here with the usual spin and deflect moves. Your property tax check goes to the county. Your state's Board Of Equalization authorizes and sets the standards for the counties' Assessors, but the counties assess and collect property tax.

 

[75th]

Have you ever closed a deal on Tennessee soil?

 

[PICK3]

Have you ever closed a deal on Tennessee soil?

75th!!!!

 

[75th]

75th!!!!

oh hai

 

[mrplunkey]

Does the fucking state collect property tax or not?

No. You're twisting in the wind here with the usual spin and deflect moves. Your property tax check goes to the county. Your state's Board Of Equalization authorizes and sets the standards for the counties' Assessors, but the counties assess and collect property tax.

Then in your retarded universe, the state and local governments don't collect sales tax either. K-mart does.

Outstanding logic.

 

[PICK3]

Then in your retarded universe, the state and local governments don't collect sales tax either. K-mart does.

Outstanding logic.

RedScam the EF Cuckold(TM) approved!

 

[Mr. dB]

Then in your retarded universe, the state and local governments don't collect sales tax either. K-mart does.

Outstanding logic.

You're just digging yourself deeper. The county doesn't collect property tax for the state. The money stays in the county, to pay for county programs. You know, like schools, roads, bridges, the sheriff's department... Your Kmart analogy doesn't work.

 

[gjohnson5]

LOL @ this hypocrisy going 13 pages
The IRS has target civil rights groups in the past and even with criminal investigations , but now all of a sudden this is some sort of scandal

 

[gjohnson5]

USATODAY.com - NAACP calls IRS probe 'political,' refuses to comply

Same with Sharpton and the National Action Network.
They too have been hit with criminal investigations probably by GW Bush and the republicans

Now all of a sudden this Tea Party scrutiny is a scandal

 

[-SD-]

So I guess we should just roll over and take it because it happened before? Senseless.

Its better to speak up about it later than never.

Irregardless of party in power or political affiliations of targeted groups.

Whats the old saying? "When they went after _______, I said nothing, when they went after _______, I said nothing, when they came for me it was too late".

Oh nevermind, thats just stupid kooky fringe talk. The government always has our best interests at heart.

 

[gjohnson5]

So I guess we should just roll over and take it because it happened before? Senseless.

Its better to speak up about it later than never.

Irregardless of party in power or political affiliations of targeted groups.

Whats the old saying? "When they went after _______, I said nothing, when they went after _______, I said nothing, when they came for me it was too late".

Oh nevermind, thats just stupid kooky fringe talk. The government always has our best interests at heart.

The main thing that is senseless is this is this fake outrage over an issue which has been duplicated by political parties against their opponents. If you didn't take this as an issue when Liberal groups were being scrutinized then you shouldn't be taking issue with this now

 

[-SD-]

The main thing that is senseless is this is this fake outrage over an issue which has been duplicated by political parties against their opponents. If you didn't take this as an issue when Liberal groups were being scrutinized then you shouldn't be taking issue with this now

If a precedent is set as far as checking the government against the glass, then it shouldnt matter about the politics because the issue will have been brought to the forefront and dealt with. So next time it wont happen (or at least less likely) to your groups.

Why is this hard to understand? All this tit for tat shit is useless. The point is to limit government abuse and power, no matter which party is abusing or which party is doing the investigating. Yea Im sure it happened in the past, like a lot of things happened in the past and nothing was done until later, so what still wrong.

The way youre putting it sounds like letting a repeat offender go free because we didnt catch him in the past or something.

 

[kx250rider]

Whats the old saying? "When they went after _______, I said nothing, when they went after _______, I said nothing, when they came for me it was too late".

Oh nevermind, thats just stupid kooky fringe talk. The government always has our best interests at heart.

We're seeing the context of this saying, right now with Obamacare. It hasn't even started much yet, and already the insurance costs and drug prices have skyrocketed, and will continue to do so. The Libs were dancing in the streets to have the "rich" and the "Wall Street moguls" pay for Obamacare, and it was all so great-sounding. But now that the factory workers and landscapers are paying more, it's all of a sudden a whole different story.

Charles

 

[mrplunkey]

You're just digging yourself deeper. The county doesn't collect property tax for the state. The money stays in the county, to pay for county programs. You know, like schools, roads, bridges, the sheriff's department... Your Kmart analogy doesn't work.

If Tennessee State Code 67.5.101 were revoked or otherwise struck down, it would give me endless pleasure to tell your bureaucratic counterpart at the tax assessor's office in Knoxville to kiss my ass. That sure sounds like a state function, even if K-mart -- oh wait... some local county office collects it.

And you've got to feel proud. Your taxing activities help perpetuate public education. Think of the key role those failure factories have in insuring our kids have adequate access to drugs, crime and teenage pregnancy. Why without them, we might be forced to actually reform K-12 education into something useful.

You should go get a more meaningful job like putting down animals at the pound or marketing cigarettes.

 

[PICK3]

You should go get a more meaningful job like putting down animals at the pound or marketing cigarettes.

Men's room attendant @ Cutter's FTW!

 

[mrplunkey]

Men's room attendant @ Cutter's FTW!

Does it have juicy gubment benefits?

 

[Headholio]

And you've got to feel proud. Your taxing activities help perpetuate public education. Think of the key role those failure factories have in insuring our kids have adequate access to drugs, crime and teenage pregnancy. Why without them, we might be forced to actually reform K-12 education into something useful.

An Interview with Jeff Wolfsberg

3. Is there any evidence that private school students use drugs and alcohol more than public school students?

No. There is little difference between alcohol and other drug use rates of public and private schools. What appears to be the most salient difference is the availability of substances “on campus” appears to be less at private than public. There are private school campuses where alcohol and other drug use exceed national averages.

Alcohol and other drug use rates by schools and communities is more of a reflection of awareness and effective programming rather than the socioeconomic status of the individuals making up a defined community.

An Interview with Jeff Wolfsberg - Jeff Wolfsberg on Substance Abuse


I wonder, Plunkey, how you would explain that the countries with the best educated kids (based on tests) are all educated in socially funded public systems. (I've taught you this before).

Why isn't America the best? My answer is simple: Republicans. What's yours?

 

[mrplunkey]

I wonder, Plunkey, how you would explain that the countries with the best educated kids (based on tests) are all educated in socially funded public systems. (I've taught you this before).

Why isn't America the best? My answer is simple: Republicans. What's yours?

If you're foolish enough to assume that something that works in one culture is going to magically work in another culture, I'm not going to waste time explaining it to you.

Perhaps you should open a female-only driving school in Saudi Arabia.

Or an all pork rib shop on Bethlehem.

Why hasn't the sex tourism industry in Swaziland taken off?

How's the new Sconic peanut butter and bacon shake doing in the Japanese market?

But yeah, I guess for someone more simple-minded, it makes perfect sense to blame it on the other guy.

Carry on.

 

[PICK3]

An Interview with Jeff Wolfsberg

3. Is there any evidence that private school students use drugs and alcohol more than public school students?

An Interview with RedScam the EF Cuckold(TM)

having a proper education system is irregardless of drug use

 

[gjohnson5]

If you're foolish enough to assume that something that works in one culture is going to magically work in another culture, I'm not going to waste time explaining it to you.

So you actually think public schools is a different culture then public ones? You must be making some really ridiculous assumptions about public school kids. I've attended / graduated both a public university and a private college. Attentive students are attentive students. Flunkies are flunkies. The private school kids I knew who dropped out after freshmen year , later attended a public school only to drop out again.... It makes no difference public or private

*edit*
The kids smoking weed in between classes would do that no matter what type of school they attended
*edit*

 

[gjohnson5]

An Interview with Jeff Wolfsberg

3. Is there any evidence that private school students use drugs and alcohol more than public school students?

No. There is little difference between alcohol and other drug use rates of public and private schools. What appears to be the most salient difference is the availability of substances “on campus” appears to be less at private than public. There are private school campuses where alcohol and other drug use exceed national averages.

Alcohol and other drug use rates by schools and communities is more of a reflection of awareness and effective programming rather than the socioeconomic status of the individuals making up a defined community.

An Interview with Jeff Wolfsberg - Jeff Wolfsberg on Substance Abuse


I wonder, Plunkey, how you would explain that the countries with the best educated kids (based on tests) are all educated in socially funded public systems. (I've taught you this before).

Why isn't America the best? My answer is simple: Republicans. What's yours?

My personal experience dittoes your post.
The main difference between large public university and smaller private college was the size of the mandatory freshmen and sophomore level classes. The other difference is the wider variety of lab type classes in the larger universities. either way, once in 400 or higher level classes in math and science, there is no difference at all. The higher level classes are filled with brighter students and hence smaller class rooms ... Student who want to learn and graduate, hence don't do self destructive behavior which will affect their grades

 

[Mr. dB]

If Tennessee State Code 67.5.101 were revoked or otherwise struck down, it would give me endless pleasure to tell your bureaucratic counterpart at the tax assessor's office in Knoxville to kiss my ass. That sure sounds like a state function, even if K-mart -- oh wait... some local county office collects it.

Well then maybe you should make that your life's mission. By all means please go to the Knox County Assessor's Office first thing tomorrow morning and let your feelings be known. And feel free to contest the assessment of your home and any commercial parcels you may own. Maybe you should seek election to a seat on the Knox County Commission, and affect change from the inside?

You really are in no position to criticize a tax when you have no comprehension of who collects it, where the money goes, or what it's used for. And you'll go to endless lengths to try to divert when your ignorance is pointed out to you.

Your K-mart analogy is still invalid, since the counties aren't collecting money for the state. They're collecting money for their own purposes. Although some money does flow the other way - from the state to the counties.

 

[mrplunkey]

So you actually think public schools is a different culture then public ones? You must be making some really ridiculous assumptions about public school kids. I've attended / graduated both a public university and a private college. Attentive students are attentive students. Flunkies are flunkies. The private school kids I knew who dropped out after freshmen year , later attended a public school only to drop out again.... It makes no difference public or private

*edit*
The kids smoking weed in between classes would do that no matter what type of school they attended
*edit*

You went to a K-12 University?

Wow! You must be smart.

 

[Headholio]

If you're foolish enough to assume that something that works in one culture is going to magically work in another culture, I'm not going to waste time explaining it to you.

Perhaps you should open a female-only driving school in Saudi Arabia.

Or an all pork rib shop on Bethlehem.

Why hasn't the sex tourism industry in Swaziland taken off?

How's the new Sconic peanut butter and bacon shake doing in the Japanese market?

But yeah, I guess for someone more simple-minded, it makes perfect sense to blame it on the other guy.

Carry on.

That is an astoundingly shitty rebuttal.

So other cultures can kick our ass with public school education, because....they are other cultures?

 

[gjohnson5]

You went to a K-12 University?

Wow! You must be smart.

I never went a private K-12.
However I went to a public k-12. The high school was in the middle of a bad neighborhood and never once saw anyone smoke weed.
However I did see a few sidewalk stomps. Even in this case , the brighter students were the ones receiving most awards at the end of the year. Most everyone graduated. My conclusion of your post still applies even when talking about public high school (atleast in my area)

 

[Headholio]

Where did you go to school Plunkey?
(Please tell me it was private lol)

 

[mrplunkey]

That is an astoundingly shitty rebuttal.

So other cultures can kick our ass with public school education, because....they are other cultures?

Other cultures kick our ass with public school education because:

1) We have a bloated, corrupt, incompetent, fortunes-wasting government.

2) We're stuffed to the gills with liberal retards that want to shovel more money into the government moneypit.

3) Our public education system has been taken-over by teachers' unions that render the entire process practically useless (and in many ways, detrimental).

4) We've spent trillions subsidizing and cultivating our permanent under-class. It's like our war on drugs -- just worse. Then we get fed the lie that if we just shoveled more cash out the door to them, the system would work.

5) And yes retard, there are differences in culture. Or are you trying to tell me that if we randomly selected five US public high school students and dropped them into a downtown Tokyo school, they'd just accept their teaching and discipline methodology and go with it?

 

[Mr. dB]

I love it, countries that are far, far more liberal than us, with far more intrusive governments, are kicking our asses in public education because we're too liberal and have too much government.

 

[mrplunkey]

I love it, countries that are far, far more liberal than us, with far more intrusive governments, are kicking our asses in public education because we're too liberal and have too much government.

And you probably can't figure-out why a country founded on individual freedom and limited government resists being recast into a socialist European system either.

Of course you love government. You're part of the problem.

 

[Mike4705]

I love it, countries that are far, far more liberal than us, with far more intrusive governments, are kicking our asses in public education because we're too liberal and have too much government.

So what's your solution? More liberal and more government?

 

[mrplunkey]

So what's your solution? More liberal and more government?

If only we could be more like them...

What a joke.

 

[Mike4705]

If only we could be more like them...

What a joke.

People would sacrifice their freedom for "security" any day of the week in this country. Without understanding the true consequences this will create. I encourage anyone to go spend some time in one of these "liberal countries." As much as I want to laugh and say its a joke, I can't, because this kind of attitude is sucking our country dry of all the values and beliefs this country was founded on.

 

[Mr. dB]

And you probably can't figure-out why a country founded on individual freedom and limited government resists being recast into a socialist European system either.

Of course you love government. You're part of the problem.

Another diversion. You said that the problem with our public education was due to liberals and too much government, I pointed out that our competitors who are doing much better with pubic education than us are more liberal and have more government, so your argument is undermined, and instead of discussing the issue you just make overblown illogical leaps. Are you capable of having a linear discussion without jumping on a tangent every time things go in a direction you don't like?

 

[75th]

Are you capable of having a linear discussion without jumping on a tangent every time things go in a direction you don't like?

No

Without understanding the true consequences this will create. I encourage anyone to go spend some time in one of these "liberal countries."

Why is "liberal countries" in quotes? Are you suggesting that they are not in fact liberal? Or are they not countries?

 

[mrplunkey]

Another diversion. You said that the problem with our public education was due to liberals and too much government, I pointed out that our competitors who are doing much better with pubic education than us are more liberal and have more government, so your argument is undermined, and instead of discussing the issue you just make overblown illogical leaps. Are you capable of having a linear discussion without jumping on a tangent every time things go in a direction you don't like?

By your standards, a linear discussion is agreeing with you.

You compared apples and oranges and now you're upset that I won't run with your assumption.

 

[digimon7068]

That is an astoundingly shitty rebuttal.

So other cultures can kick our ass with public school education, because....they are other cultures?

nope...they "kick our ass" because they separate the wheat from the chaff at a very young age...then some people in our country are stupid enough to compare the results of their elitist systems to the results produced by our all-inclusive system...classic apples and oranges situation...but, go ahead and believe what the media tells you.

 

[mrplunkey]

nope...they "kick our ass" because they separate the wheat from the chaff at a very young age...then some people in our country are stupid enough to compare the results of their elitist systems to the results produced by our all-inclusive system...classic apples and oranges situation...but, go ahead an believe what the media tells you.

Uh oh... You must not be linear either.

 

[digimon7068]

Uh oh... You must not be linear either.

i'm just sick of people shitting on our public education system when in fact the problem is our pussy-ass, no-child-left-behind, everyone-gets-a-fucking-trophy, feminized society that fucked up the best public education system on planet erf!

 

[mrplunkey]

i'm just sick of people shitting on our public education system when in fact the problem is our pussy-ass, no-child-left-behind, everyone-gets-a-fucking-trophy, feminized society that fucked up the best public education system on planet erf!

The fact that the public education system has been thoroughly unionized and serves as a political wing of the Democratic party doesn't help much either.

 

[digimon7068]

The fact that the public education system has been thoroughly unionized and serves as a political wing of the Democratic party doesn't help much either.

i figured that you would read the words that i chose and connect the dots as to who i am pointing the finger at...except for no-child-left-behind...that was a dubya admin brainchild...and i'm still scratching my head over that one.

 

[Headholio]

nope...they "kick our ass" because they separate the wheat from the chaff at a very young age...then some people in our country are stupid enough to compare the results of their elitist systems to the results produced by our all-inclusive system...classic apples and oranges situation...but, go ahead and believe what the media tells you.

I remember having this conversation before, and doing a lot of reading on the testing methods etc. Its all posted somewhere in an old thread. So I don't want to reinvent the wheel but I think that excuse is questionable.

 

[digimon7068]

I remember having this conversation before, and doing a lot of reading on the testing methods etc. Its all posted somewhere in an old thread. So I don't want to reinvent the wheel but I think that excuse is questionable.

i'm not saying that there is any sort of evil conspiracy...we used to do the exact same thing here in the u.s...i don't know how old you are but anyone that is at least 40-something can remember a day when you were tested for certain things early in elementary school and then all of a sudden, a lot of people that used to be in the same classroom with you were now across the hall...everyone knew why...no one made a big deal out of it...all men were not created equal...that's just the way it is...and trying to erase the lines simply dumbs-down the kids that have the ability to excel, but are now not getting challenged.

 

[digimon7068]

i'm not saying that there is any sort of evil conspiracy...we used to do the exact same thing here in the u.s...i don't know how old you are but anyone that is at least 40-something can remember a day when you were tested for certain things early in elementary school and then all of a sudden, a lot of people that used to be in the same classroom with you were now across the hall...everyone knew why...no one made a big deal out of it...all men were not created equal...that's just the way it is...and trying to erase the lines simply dumbs-down the kids that have the ability to excel, but are now not getting challenged.

oh and, our one twin passed the keystone exam (for graduation) in math and our other twin passed the keystone exam for science...in 7th grade...because my wife is a kick-ass public school teacher and what my kids aren't getting at school, she makes sure that they are getting it at home...i feel bad for kids that don't have a school teacher mom...my kids will have at least one year of college credits under their belt before they graduate from high school...and that stuff is available to anyone...but you have to take it upon yourself because every public school teacher is saddled with the responsibility to try to teach a certain number of kids that will never "get it" no matter what you do.

 

[Mr. dB]

By your standards, a linear discussion is agreeing with you.

You compared apples and oranges and now you're upset that I won't run with your assumption.

physician heal thyself

 

[mrplunkey]

i'm not saying that there is any sort of evil conspiracy...we used to do the exact same thing here in the u.s...i don't know how old you are but anyone that is at least 40-something can remember a day when you were tested for certain things early in elementary school and then all of a sudden, a lot of people that used to be in the same classroom with you were now across the hall...everyone knew why...no one made a big deal out of it...all men were not created equal...that's just the way it is...and trying to erase the lines simply dumbs-down the kids that have the ability to excel, but are now not getting challenged.

Yup. Second grade, Mrs. Fischer's class.

They broke us into four groups and corralled us group-by-group into a room. They put a book in front of you and asked you to start reading aloud in front of everyone. The kids that struggled were cut off before they got embarrassed. Of the kids that could read it, they let them keep going for a minute or so. If it was obvious you could read smoothly and didn't get hung up, they pulled you out of the regular class and met as a small group for English class for the rest of elementary school.

 

[Mr. dB]

Uh oh... You must not be linear either.

Actually he was, his message was actually responsive to the message he was replying to.

 

[digimon7068]

Yup. Second grade, Mrs. Fischer's class.

They broke us into four groups and corralled us group-by-group into a room. They put a book in front of you and asked you to start reading aloud in front of everyone. The kids that struggled were cut off before they got embarrassed. Of the kids that could read it, they let them keep going for a minute or so. If it was obvious you could read smoothly and didn't get hung up, they pulled you out of the regular class and met as a small group for English class for the rest of elementary school.

i was put in mrs. teufel's class in 2nd grade because of some evaluation process that took place in 1st grade...i don't even remember who my 1st grade teacher was...but i remember mrs. teufel (and pretty much every teacher after that) because there was something special going on in those classrooms...higher level thinking, creativity, etc. weren't just encouraged, they were required.

 

[PICK3]

i didn't have dick before

i don't have dick now




just sayin'

 

[digimon7068]

i was put in mrs. teufel's class in 2nd grade because of some evaluation process that took place in 1st grade...i don't even remember who my 1st grade teacher was...but i remember mrs. teufel (and pretty much every teacher after that) because there was something special going on in those classrooms...higher level thinking, creativity, etc. weren't just encouraged, they were required.

public schools are encouraged to identify and label those children with behavioral issues so that they can receive an individualized education program (iep) and a therapeutic staff support (tss...a person that follows that one kid around all day to make sure that they behave and pay attention) but, God-forbid that we label a child as a high-achiever and then set them apart from the rank-and-file...that would make the lesser-achievers feel bad about themselves and question their self-worth...omigod...then they'd have to learn how to cope...so that they would be ready to enter the real world someday...that would be terrible.

 

[redsamurai]

I remember having this conversation before, and doing a lot of reading on the testing methods etc. Its all posted somewhere in an old thread. So I don't want to reinvent the wheel but I think that excuse is questionable.

of course it's questionable because all those countries have their elite private schools as well. Their public schools get compared with ours, it's a straight 1v1 comparison.

Anyway, back to this tea party thing. The more I now understand the more I think they were exactly doing their job. They should be doing this with every single political organization trying to get tax exemption without disclosing donors no matter the fucking affiliation. The republicans are just sour about it because it appears the vast majority of these political organizations applying for the 501 which doesn't require disclosure...are infact conservative groups. It came out this morning that Rove may be infact funneling money from all these tea party groups into republican coffers. So basically the republicans have found a way to marshal the tea party movement right back into their bank accounts.

 

[digimon7068]

of course it's questionable because all those countries have their elite private schools as well. Their public schools get compared with ours, it's a straight 1v1 comparison.

Anyway, back to this tea party thing. The more I now understand the more I think they were exactly doing their job. They should be doing this with every single political organization trying to get tax exemption without disclosing donors no matter the fucking affiliation. The republicans are just sour about it because it appears the vast majority of these political organizations applying for the 501 which doesn't require disclosure...are infact conservative groups. It came out this morning that Rove may be infact funneling money from all these tea party groups into republican coffers. So basically the republicans have found a way to marshal the tea party movement right back into their bank accounts.

not true...they identify their elite and then separate them from the herd...has nothing to do with private schools...you're all full of shit...and most of you are too young to remember when we did it ourselves...when we had the best education system in the world...before all the namby-pamby do-gooders fucked it up...whatever...get off my lawn!

talk to some of your local school administration people...principals, superintendents, etc...the people that actually care about this shit and make it a point to educate themselves about these issues...hear what they have to say...and then come back and talk to me...until then? get off my fucking lawn.

 

[redsamurai]

get off my fucking lawn.

what if I just toe the edge? One little blade of grass touching my shoe?

 

[digimon7068]

what if I just toe the edge? One little blade of grass touching my shoe?

i'll sick my dog on you...

 

[redsamurai]

i'll sick my dog on you...

You know if I have any kind of food on me whatsoever he's gonna be a tail wagging little puppy by the time he reaches me right?

 

[digimon7068]

You know if I have any kind of food on me whatsoever he's gonna be a tail wagging little puppy by the time he reaches me right?

and you know that you'll be trying to smoke my grass instead of just putting your toes on it, right??

 

[mrplunkey]

Anyway, back to this tea party thing. The more I now understand the more I think they were exactly doing their job. They should be doing this with every single political organization trying to get tax exemption without disclosing donors no matter the fucking affiliation. The republicans are just sour about it because it appears the vast majority of these political organizations applying for the 501 which doesn't require disclosure...are infact conservative groups. It came out this morning that Rove may be infact funneling money from all these tea party groups into republican coffers. So basically the republicans have found a way to marshal the tea party movement right back into their bank accounts.

Just like the DEA should be monitoring email and phone conversations from members and donors of groups like MoveOn.org, MediaMatters and other "progressive" organizations. Libtards on average use more illicit drugs than conservative/religious groups -- so the DEA would just be doing their job.

 

[Headholio]

AT my son's high school there are honors classes, an International Baccalaureate (IB) program, Advanced Placement (AP) classes. I don't see the case for "everyone is equal" pussification.

 

[redsamurai]

AT my son's high school there are honors classes, an International Baccalaureate (IB) program, Advanced Placement (AP) classes. I don't see the case for "everyone is equal" pussification.

because it doesn't exist, it's a right wing talking point for ending public education and handing it over to the free market. So that more of this can happen...Business-Managed Democracy - Commercialism in Education

 

[redsamurai]

Just like the DEA should be monitoring email and phone conversations from members and donors of groups like MoveOn.org, MediaMatters and other "progressive" organizations. Libtards on average use more illicit drugs than conservative/religious groups -- so the DEA would just be doing their job.

at least they would know the donors from organizations like that right?

 

[mrplunkey]

AT my son's high school there are honors classes, an International Baccalaureate (IB) program, Advanced Placement (AP) classes. I don't see the case for "everyone is equal" pussification.

So if the education is so advanced, why do US students consistently under perform against their foreign counterparts?

 

[redsamurai]

So if the education is so advanced, why do US students consistently under perform against their foreign counterparts?

It's our culture, not the concept of public education.

 

[mrplunkey]

It's our culture, not the concept of public education.

Your top would appear to disagree with you.

So other cultures can kick our ass with public school education, because....they are other cultures?

 

[digimon7068]

AT my son's high school there are honors classes, an International Baccalaureate (IB) program, Advanced Placement (AP) classes. I don't see the case for "everyone is equal" pussification.

and from k-12 there are more often than not, numerous students in the same classes together, who would not have been in the same classes together 20 years ago...and the lower achievers are not performing any better as a result...however, the higher achievers are stagnating because of the commingling.

in other countries, students who have been labeled as "non-academic" are neither subjected to achievement tests nor are they included in the statistics that our system is ultimately compared too.

 

[digimon7068]

because it doesn't exist, it's a right wing talking point for ending public education and handing it over to the free market. So that more of this can happen...Business-Managed Democracy - Commercialism in Education

i'm actually a big proponent FOR public education...and numerous other necessary services that could never be "profitable", but without them our society would suffer significantly.

 

[redsamurai]

i'm actually a big proponent FOR public education...and numerous other necessary services that could never be "profitable", but without them our society would suffer significantly.

i'm fully aware that public education is broken but getting rid of it isn't the answer. The curriculum has to be changed. There's plenty of kids that will not do well in higher math and science but can do amazing things working with their hands. Give them that avenue. We have this standardized curriculum that herds all the kids down the same road. Let them choose early on what they'd like to specialize in.

 

[Headholio]

and from k-12 there are more often than not, numerous students in the same classes together, who would not have been in the same classes together 20 years ago...and the lower achievers are not performing any better as a result...however, the higher achievers are stagnating because of the commingling.

in other countries, students who have been labeled as "non-academic" are neither subjected to achievement tests nor are they included in the statistics that our system is ultimately compared too.

The international testing methods take pride and make a lot of effort to have random sampling and fair comparisons. Google PISA.
Even the articles that criticize the fairness of the comparison, don't mention a sampling problem, from what I can find.

Here is an article critical of the tests

Apples to Oranges: Are PISA Tests Fair?

 

[mrplunkey]

i'm fully aware that public education is broken but getting rid of it isn't the answer. The curriculum has to be changed. There's plenty of kids that will not do well in higher math and science but can do amazing things working with their hands. Give them that avenue. We have this standardized curriculum that herds all the kids down the same road. Let them choose early on what they'd like to specialize in.

Yeah, that's it. Just fix the curriculum and everything would be just fine. Never mind the drugs, pregnancies, unionized teachers and decades of cultivated generational poverty.

 

[-SD-]

Our public education system has a lot more problems than changing the curriculum.

 

[gjohnson5]

Yeah, that's it. Just fix the curriculum and everything would be just fine. Never mind the drugs, pregnancies, unionized teachers and decades of cultivated generational poverty.

Non of which will be changed by privatizing schools
You make it sound like private companies don't hire unionized workers or poverty will magically disappear once we eliminate gov't jobs

this is utter nonsense. There's no way to describe this post

 

[Headholio]

Non of which will be changed by privatizing schools
You make it sound like private companies don't hire unionized workers or poverty will magically disappear once we eliminate gov't jobs

this is utter nonsense. There's no way to describe this post

Agree!

I think the conclusion is that those perverted drug using Americans just suck. Suckiness is just built into our culture and that's why we don't compete in test scores. People in Finland, Singapore, Japan, Canada, the Netherlands, the Swiss, and many other of those damn socialists around the world are all better than us. Its about time we just admitted it and moved on.

Best Education In The World: Finland, South Korea Top Country Rankings, U.S. Rated Average

 

[mrplunkey]

Non of which will be changed by privatizing schools
You make it sound like private companies don't hire unionized workers or poverty will magically disappear once we eliminate gov't jobs

this is utter nonsense. There's no way to describe this post

I just realized that you have no idea about unionization rates and trends.

Here's you a little homework assignment:

1) What is the unionization rate of public K-12 schools?

2) What is the unionization rate of private K-12 schools?

Dig that up, then reconsider that post.

 

[digimon7068]

The international testing methods take pride and make a lot of effort to have random sampling and fair comparisons. Google PISA.
Even the articles that criticize the fairness of the comparison, don't mention a sampling problem, from what I can find.

Here is an article critical of the tests

Apples to Oranges: Are PISA Tests Fair?

it doesn't have to do with sampling...it has to do with whole groups of people not even being included in the population from which the samples are drawn.

stated more simply...if you are identified as a future factory worker in grade school, you aren't even in the population from which the samples are drawn.

 

[Headholio]

it doesn't have to do with sampling...it has to do with whole groups of people not even being included in the population from which the samples are drawn.

stated more simply...if you are identified as a future factory worker in grade school, you aren't even in the population from which the samples are drawn.

I know what you are saying, but I don't think it works that way. The last article I posted said something about China possibly cheating by manipulating the population where the students come from, but that would be cheating, and an anomoly, not the norm.

How does PISA select a representative sample of students?

To provide valid estimates of student achievement and characteristics, PISA selects a sample of students that represents the full population of 15-year-old students in each participating country and jurisdiction. This population is defined internationally as 15-year-olds attending both public and private schools in grades 7-12. PISA requires a minimum of 4,500 students from a minimum of 150 schools in each participating country and jurisdiction. Within schools, a sample of 35 students must be selected in an equal probability sample unless fewer than 35 students age 15 are available (in which case all students are selected). PISA requires that students in the sample be 15 years and 3 months to 16 years and 2 months at the beginning of the testing period. The school response rate target is 85 percent for all countries and jurisdictions. A minimum participation rate of 65 percent of schools from the original sample of schools is required for a country or jurisdiction’s data to be included in the international database. PISA also requires a minimum participation rate of 80 percent of sampled students from schools within each country and jurisdiction.

Program for International Student Assessment (PISA) - Frequently Asked Questions

If you think about it, it would be unlikely that an international effort to quantify education statistics would have such a glaring flaw in sample selection. That's basic statistics fundamentals.

 

[redsamurai]

Non of which will be changed by privatizing schools
You make it sound like private companies don't hire unionized workers or poverty will magically disappear once we eliminate gov't jobs

this is utter nonsense. There's no way to describe this post

oh c'mon sure you can. Everything he types is rubbish so just start at feces analogies and work backwards. It gets easier I promise.

 

[digimon7068]

I know what you are saying, but I don't think it works that way. The last article I posted said something about China possibly cheating by manipulating the population where the students come from, but that would be cheating, and an anomoly, not the norm.

How does PISA select a representative sample of students?

To provide valid estimates of student achievement and characteristics, PISA selects a sample of students that represents the full population of 15-year-old students in each participating country and jurisdiction. This population is defined internationally as 15-year-olds attending both public and private schools in grades 7-12. PISA requires a minimum of 4,500 students from a minimum of 150 schools in each participating country and jurisdiction. Within schools, a sample of 35 students must be selected in an equal probability sample unless fewer than 35 students age 15 are available (in which case all students are selected). PISA requires that students in the sample be 15 years and 3 months to 16 years and 2 months at the beginning of the testing period. The school response rate target is 85 percent for all countries and jurisdictions. A minimum participation rate of 65 percent of schools from the original sample of schools is required for a country or jurisdiction’s data to be included in the international database. PISA also requires a minimum participation rate of 80 percent of sampled students from schools within each country and jurisdiction.

Program for International Student Assessment (PISA) - Frequently Asked Questions

If you think about it, it would be unlikely that an international effort to quantify education statistics would have such a glaring flaw in sample selection. That's basic statistics fundamentals.

if you have been identified as non-academic and are now receiving an alternate form of education, are you still a "student"?

 

[Mr. dB]

 

[mrplunkey]

[/IMG]

 

[mrplunkey]

Another taxpayer-financed IRS video surfaces - CBS News

Estimates have the IRS spending $50M in 220 conferences/parties.

Good times!

 

[shirlene29]

yeah I would have liked to have been at that 2010 conference...who knew the IRS could party like that

 

[Mr. dB]

Another taxpayer-financed IRS video surfaces - CBS News

Estimates have the IRS spending $50M in 220 conferences/parties.

Good times!

Well, aren't you guys the ones saying government should be run more like business?

 

[redsamurai]

Well, aren't you guys the ones saying government should be run more like business?

lmao!! I find it funny now that these little 501's are being exposed and people are starting to say "hey, maybe the IRS was doing EXACTLY what it was supposed to be doing", that the issue with them now is going to be how much they spent on parties. Basically we know this now after that last govt agency helped itself to vegas blowouts, they're all doing it and they need to be board checked. We got it. But this doesn't reflect on Barry. Other things reflect on Barry, this doesn't.

 

[-SD-]

lmao!! I find it funny now that these little 501's are being exposed and people are starting to say "hey, maybe the IRS was doing EXACTLY what it was supposed to be doing", that the issue with them now is going to be how much they spent on parties. Basically we know this now after that last govt agency helped itself to vegas blowouts, they're all doing it and they need to be board checked. We got it. But this doesn't reflect on Barry. Other things reflect on Barry, this doesn't.

But i thought anything that happens during a presidents term automatically reflects on that president? Its the "On his watch" theory lol
Clinton gets credit for net bubble, bush gets blamed for katrina and everything else in the universe, Reagan blamed for iran/contra. I guess the exception now is obama takes blame for nothing (or just blames bush for some odd reason) but gets credit for things like killing Bin Laden, even though that all began under bush.

 

[mrplunkey]

Well, aren't you guys the ones saying government should be run more like business?

Yeah, businesses are just dying to spend millions on employee events.



You liberals need to get your story straight. One minute businesses are greedy bloodsuckers dying to improve shareholder returns by denying them healthcare. Then we're supposedly lavishing them with $50M in resort-style conferences.