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cindylou

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Declaw a cat. Im an idiot and declawed my cat for the first time 5 years ago and Im convinced that it is the cause of his behavior problems. I feel so bad. I didnt know any better. I'd never declawed a cat before - and for some reason thought it would be a brilliant idea to get these two declawed.

Well, one turned out okay, and the other is always a nervous neurotic wreck. I cant explain it any other way because I've never had such a strange cat. He actually pulls out his own hair. Poor guy. Plus, now that I live away from traffic, I could let them outside, but now I cant, they are prisioners in my house and its my fault

Lesson learned. :(
 
Declaw a cat. Im an idiot and declawed my cat for the first time 5 years ago and Im convinced that it is the cause of his behavior problems. I feel so bad. I didnt know any better. I'd never declawed a cat before - and for some reason thought it would be a brilliant idea to get these two declawed.

Well, one turned out okay, and the other is always a nervous neurotic wreck. I cant explain it any other way because I've never had such a strange cat. He actually pulls out his own hair. Poor guy. Plus, now that I live away from traffic, I could let them outside, but now I cant, they are prisioners in my house and its my fault

Lesson learned. :(

My cAT (BEFORE i TURNED ALLERGIC) did the same thing. He acted nuts for about 2 weeks, then he was fine. Vet said it was a reaction to the meds they used to knock him out
 
My cAT (BEFORE i TURNED ALLERGIC) did the same thing. He acted nuts for about 2 weeks, then he was fine. Vet said it was a reaction to the meds they used to knock him out

You turned allergic?? That can happen? No shit.

Mine's been acting crazy for years now. He's almost untrustworthy - he's still good with the litter box thank god.
 
Sorry, but de-clawing a cat is cruel. It's the anatomical equivalent of cutting off your fingertips down to the first joint. Outside the USA, vets in most civilized countries will refuse to do it.

As for your neurotic cat, he'd probably be neurotic even if he wasn't an amputee.
 
Sorry, but de-clawing a cat is cruel. It's the anatomical equivalent of cutting off your fingertips down to the first joint. Outside the USA, vets in most civilized countries will refuse to do it.

As for your neurotic cat, he'd probably be neurotic even if he wasn't an amputee.

I didnt understand that to be so. I really didnt. I wouldnt ever do it again. I feel bad. :(
 
declawing a cat is actually amputating the top joint of their "toes"...a lot of people don't realize it.

I'm not saying it to make you feel worse, cindy, because I am guilty of it too, and I feel shitty about it now. I had three cats growing up and we declawed each without knowing what the proceedure really was.
 
I didnt understand that to be so. I really didnt. I wouldnt ever do it again. I feel bad. :(

Sorry, I'm not trying to make you feel bad. And vets don't explain the procedure properly, in my opinion. It would scare off customers, and they want the $$$. It's not your fault if you were deceived.

Just continue to be a loving human companion for your cats. And don't let it happen again. :)
 
declawing a cat is actually amputating the top joint of their "toes"...a lot of people don't realize it.

I'm not saying it to make you feel worse, cindy, because I am guilty of it too, and I feel shitty about it now. I had three cats growing up and we declawed each without knowing what the proceedure really was.

I didnt know what it was either, and after the fact people would tell me that and I would roll my eyes...but everything that they said was true and my cat is crazy because of it. He over grooms himself and pulls out his hair and is scared of everything
 
You turned allergic?? That can happen? No shit.

Mine's been acting crazy for years now. He's almost untrustworthy - he's still good with the litter box thank god.

ea, when I was in my early 20s. I was in MAJOR denial bc I loved my Chewy (my cat). My doc kept saying I was allergic to him. I kept trying to blame it on trees or grass and running outside.
My chest started getting tight (WAY BAD) when I was home.
My doc did an allergy test. Tested me for 60something things.
0-3 scale. I was a 0 for all alergies ..... except cats. I scored a 3+ for both cat dander and saliva. Had to give chewy away so I wouldn't die. It sucked.
To be allergic to something, you need to be exposed to it.
Have they told you the stuff about milk and peanut butter for the trimesters of pregnancy? That's why.
 
ea, when I was in my early 20s. I was in MAJOR denial bc I loved my Chewy (my cat). My doc kept saying I was allergic to him. I kept trying to blame it on trees or grass and running outside.
My chest started getting tight (WAY BAD) when I was home.
My doc did an allergy test. Tested me for 60something things.
0-3 scale. I was a 0 for all alergies ..... except cats. I scored a 3+ for both cat dander and saliva. Had to give chewy away so I wouldn't die. It sucked.
To be allergic to something, you need to be exposed to it.
Have they told you the stuff about milk and peanut butter for the trimesters of pregnancy? That's why.

No...:worried:
 

I don't remember which trimesters for which. 3rd trimester for both if I remember right. No biggie. They are thinking 3rd trimester exposure makes it more likely for the baby to have problems with lactose and allergic to peanuts..... but just more likely. Not a sure thing. Plus, its a new thing and my mom was a big milk drinker. I turned out just fine.
..... BUT IF YOU WANT, go slap the OB docs at Centerpoint and tell them I sent you:supercool
 
Is it true that you aren't supposed to change Cat litter when you are pregnant? I heard it can cause problems with the developpment of the baby.
 
Sorry, but de-clawing a cat is cruel. It's the anatomical equivalent of cutting off your fingertips down to the first joint. Outside the USA, vets in most civilized countries will refuse to do it.

As for your neurotic cat, he'd probably be neurotic even if he wasn't an amputee.

For every cat you don't de-claw, I'm going to de-claw 3.
 
Hate to say I told you so ... :( If you recall, we had a harsh discussion about this when you first joined.

Ah well, done bun can't be undone ... take him to the vet and get the poor beast on an anti-anxiolytic or antidepressant. He's never going to get over it, not at this age, but you might be able to temper his nervousness and some of the compulsiveness.

I would equate the behavior you're describing to feather tearing in exotic birds. What I suspect is going on (just a shot in the dark here) is that since he is without defenses the world is one giant threat to him, and he's, well, like shell shocked. He's developed OCD type behaviors because you can't spend 24/7 being terrified and not start to get more than a little twitchy.
 
Hate to say I told you so ... :( If you recall, we had a harsh discussion about this when you first joined.

Ah well, done bun can't be undone ... take him to the vet and get the poor beast on an anti-anxiolytic or antidepressant. He's never going to get over it, not at this age, but you might be able to temper his nervousness and some of the compulsiveness.

I would equate the behavior you're describing to feather tearing in exotic birds. What I suspect is going on (just a shot in the dark here) is that since he is without defenses the world is one giant threat to him, and he's, well, like shell shocked. He's developed OCD type behaviors because you can't spend 24/7 being terrified and not start to get more than a little twitchy.


its okay you can say it - I was wrong. I didnt know any better at all. My whole life I had cats but I'd never had a declawed one, I dont know why I thought it would be no big deal - the vet acted like it was no big deal and to just do it when I was neutering him - so I did, and he seemed fine while he was still a kitten. As an adult - he almost has a mental illness or something
 
Is it true that you aren't supposed to change Cat litter when you are pregnant? I heard it can cause problems with the developpment of the baby.
Myway is correct about the name of the disease, but if you've always owned cats there's basically no risk (and the whole cat thing is kind of controversial among infectious disease experts). The protozoa can live in any warm blooded animal and even the dirt. The risk is for a pregnant woman whose never been exposed to the parasites before coming into contact with them the first time during pregnancy. So, if you've never had a cat, don't get one or clean their box if you are preg. If you've always had cats, you've probably been exposed at some point.
 
I quit changing the cat litter when i became preg - but I dont wash my hands every freaking time I touch them. Im not too worried about it. So far my baby is developing perfect! My doc told me it was no big deal, just to have someone else change the litter box. I'm glad to have a break from doing it lol
 
Myway is correct about the name of the disease, but if you've always owned cats there's basically no risk (and the whole cat thing is kind of controversial among infectious disease experts). The protozoa can live in any warm blooded animal and even the dirt. The risk is for a pregnant woman whose never been exposed to the parasites before coming into contact with them the first time during pregnancy. So, if you've never had a cat, don't get one or clean their box if you are preg. If you've always had cats, you've probably been exposed at some point.

Question:
I was had a TB exposure at work before I was preg.(positive skin test but negative chest xray) and I was on isoniazid for over 9months right before I was preg. Do u think my son might have any antibodies from me?
 
its okay you can say it - I was wrong. I didnt know any better at all. My whole life I had cats but I'd never had a declawed one, I dont know why I thought it would be no big deal - the vet acted like it was no big deal and to just do it when I was neutering him - so I did, and he seemed fine while he was still a kitten. As an adult - he almost has a mental illness or something
I'm not going to chastise you, it sounds like you're beating yourself up quite enough for both of us and the cat, and I appreciate that you're sharing your experience in case someone is kicking the idea around.

I'm serious about the anti-anxiety meds, but uh, think about finding another vet, ideally, one that specializes in cats. Frankly, I recommend that for everyone that has cats. Going to the vet is traumatic enough for them, but then the scent and sound of dogs? Torture. And for this poor kitty of yours, it's a double trauma.

Besides, no vet that really understands cats is blase about declawing.

And your cat does have a mental illness. He has the equivalent of posttraumatic stress disorder. Humans have a hard time getting over that, even with therapy and meds.
 
Question:
I was had a TB exposure at work before I was preg.(positive skin test but negative chest xray) and I was on isoniazid for over 9months right before I was preg. Do u think my son might have any antibodies from me?
That is a question for your pediatrician. Zoonotic diseases and domestic animals (cats, ferrets, dogs primarily) I know.

Although, from reading this:

http://yourtotalhealth.ivillage.com/active-tuberculosis-tb-in-pregnancy.html

I don't think you should worry much. Seems the tranfer is more a direct thing, which makes sense, TB is respiratory transmitted, correct? Now, I do know weird shit can cause false positive tests for some things (my mother always tested positive for small pox, she grew up on a dairy farm and had been exposed to cow pox) so this is definitely something you want to have in your son's medical records. When I was a kid they used to routinely test students for TB when I was in school, I don't know if they still do that today.
 
That is a question for your pediatrician. Zoonotic diseases and domestic animals (cats, ferrets, dogs primarily) I know.

Although, from reading this:

http://yourtotalhealth.ivillage.com/active-tuberculosis-tb-in-pregnancy.html

I don't think you should worry much. Seems the tranfer is more a direct thing, which makes sense, TB is respiratory transmitted, correct? Now, I do know weird shit can cause false positive tests for some things (my mother always tested positive for small pox, she grew up on a dairy farm and had been exposed to cow pox) so this is definitely something you want to have in your son's medical records. When I was a kid they used to routinely test students for TB when I was in school, I don't know if they still do that today.

I will talk to my son's doc about it. I don't know if they test in school but paramedics get a skin test every year unless they have a positive skin test. Positive skin test means chest xray every 6 months.
 
I don't agree with declawing cats cause no cat should be house ridden...........'but", at the same time those little fuckers like to sharpen those things on your nice furniture, in which case I am all for giving a cat a belt beating or a face full of a water bottle spray. Growing up we always had outdoor cats yet they still loved to fucking put their backs into tearing up the couch or stereo speaker covers. They need a periodic beating to reinforce the "NO". I'm not advocating a thrashing that leaves em maimed, but a good spanking with a belt is not out of the question. Those claws can rip the fuck out of shit. But that's also what allows them to scamper up trees right quick if a dog comes for em. So leave em with the claws, but put the fear of god into em if they even "think" about using those bad boys in the house..............tha'ts my take.
 
Hate to say I told you so ... :( If you recall, we had a harsh discussion about this when you first joined.

Ah well, done bun can't be undone ... take him to the vet and get the poor beast on an anti-anxiolytic or antidepressant. He's never going to get over it, not at this age, but you might be able to temper his nervousness and some of the compulsiveness.

I would equate the behavior you're describing to feather tearing in exotic birds. What I suspect is going on (just a shot in the dark here) is that since he is without defenses the world is one giant threat to him, and he's, well, like shell shocked. He's developed OCD type behaviors because you can't spend 24/7 being terrified and not start to get more than a little twitchy.


Exactly!
I know the case of a woman who owned 3 parakeet and they were all fine and happy but one day a possum, rat or some freaking rodent got into the cage (the cage was almost as big as a bedroom) and grabbed the youngest, the noise woke up the owner and stoppe the little pest that had dragged the poor bord from the tail half way through the cage.... that day on the parakeet plucks out it's own feathers in the tail area... :(

It is OCD and it's best to take to your vet, hopefully a different one, even better if opposed to declawing...
 
I don't agree with declawing cats cause no cat should be house ridden...........'but", at the same time those little fuckers like to sharpen those things on your nice furniture, in which case I am all for giving a cat a belt beating or a face full of a water bottle spray. Growing up we always had outdoor cats yet they still loved to fucking put their backs into tearing up the couch or stereo speaker covers. They need a periodic beating to reinforce the "NO". I'm not advocating a thrashing that leaves em maimed, but a good spanking with a belt is not out of the question. Those claws can rip the fuck out of shit. But that's also what allows them to scamper up trees right quick if a dog comes for em. So leave em with the claws, but put the fear of god into em if they even "think" about using those bad boys in the house..............tha'ts my take.
Hun, I'm sure your intentions are good but, take this as I'm saying it, hush. Hitting cats is NOT an effective deterrent, ever. A cat is not capable of equating stopping what it was doing with pain from you, it IS capable of equating YOU with pain. Hitting dogs works (to a degree) because dogs are pack animals and hardwired to grasp negative reinforcement. However, when you hit a cat for doing something you don't like, the cat learns to be afraid of you and you end up with a fearful, neurotic cat who might think it's a good idea to shit or piss on your bed (fear and/or abuse will cause cats to toilet inappropriately).

Water pistols are more effective, as are unpleasant noises (the sound of coins in a can or the sound of an air can hissing work really well) or even unpleasant tactile feelings, like double sided tape or aluminum foil (one of my cats loves to lie on top of my computer monitor. I don't want her up there so I put double sided sticky tape on top of the monitor. She stepped on it once, got totally creeped out, and hasn't been back since).

HOWEVER, none of that shit works for scratching (well, the unpleasant tactiles do, but it's a hassle) because you have to understand what's going on when a cat scratches something, it is not out of malice or even to "sharpen their claws." They are are tearing off the ragged edges of the sheaths of their talons. Cats continually shed their claws to expose new sharp ones beneath. Additionally, since their claws are actually the ends of their toes, they are stretching the ligaments and tendons of their feet and legs. Finally, cats have scent glands on their feet, they are depositing scent marks on what they are scratching.

Cats need to "sharpen their claws" physiologically and psychologically (even declawed cats go through the motions of sharpening their claws). And they will return to a spot they have used before precisely because they have scent marked it, whether you beat their asses or not. However, they do not need to sharpen their claws on your furniture. You merely need to provide the animal with sufficient scratching posts (or even old pieces of wood with the bark still on them or even heavy corrugated cardboard, rubbed with catnip, trying different things is the best bet, then you remove the stuff that isn't used).

I have Top Cat scratching posts. I have six cats, they ALL use the hell out of them, completely stripped the sisal off the last two I had, stripped them right down to the wood. I just bought new ones this year.
 
I've loved the shit out of all the little fuckers I grew up with, especially one.....I still miss him and he died probably 5-6 years ago. I still get a little tear in my eye thinking about him cause he was my buddy......complete and unconditional love, like a dog. Now.........saying all that, they were all some spoiled rotten little shits. Oh, we've had scratching posts...........but why use a scratching post when you're "perfectly entitled" to using the nice upholstery which really makes a great sound when you lean into it?? For animals that routinely hunted birds and squirrels and whatnot, they could be some picky ass bastards when it came to their cat food. And shit they would let you know about it when they didn't fancy something. Like I said, I love cats...........but I've gotten some pretty good behavior modifications from a good whuppin. I agree that spray bottles are best. They really don't like that shit. I'm waiting for the day there's robotic technology where I can buy a little robotic centurion that can detect the sound of a cat scratchin where he ain't supposed to and can go and hit the thing with a water cannon or some sort of unpleasant nerve spray. Cause you know when you leave the house those cats are heading straight for the furniture. They know.



Hun, I'm sure your intentions are good but, take this as I'm saying it, hush. Hitting cats is NOT an effective deterrent, ever. A cat is not capable of equating stopping what it was doing with pain from you, it IS capable of equating YOU with pain. Hitting dogs works (to a degree) because dogs are pack animals and hardwired to grasp negative reinforcement. However, when you hit a cat for doing something you don't like, the cat learns to be afraid of you and you end up with a fearful, neurotic cat who might think it's a good idea to shit or piss on your bed (fear and/or abuse will cause cats to toilet inappropriately).

Water pistols are more effective, as are unpleasant noises (the sound of coins in a can or the sound of an air can hissing work really well) or even unpleasant tactile feelings, like double sided tape or aluminum foil (one of my cats loves to lie on top of my computer monitor. I don't want her up there so I put double sided sticky tape on top of the monitor. She stepped on it once, got totally creeped out, and hasn't been back since).

HOWEVER, none of that shit works for scratching (well, the unpleasant tactiles do, but it's a hassle) because you have to understand what's going on when a cat scratches something, it is not out of malice or even to "sharpen their claws." They are are tearing off the ragged edges of the sheaths of their talons. Cats continually shed their claws to expose new sharp ones beneath. Additionally, since their claws are actually the ends of their toes, they are stretching the ligaments and tendons of their feet and legs. Finally, cats have scent glands on their feet, they are depositing scent marks on what they are scratching.

Cats need to "sharpen their claws" physiologically and psychologically (even declawed cats go through the motions of sharpening their claws). And they will return to a spot they have used before precisely because they have scent marked it, whether you beat their asses or not. However, they do not need to sharpen their claws on your furniture. You merely need to provide the animal with sufficient scratching posts (or even old pieces of wood with the bark still on them or even heavy corrugated cardboard, rubbed with catnip, trying different things is the best bet, then you remove the stuff that isn't used).

I have Top Cat scratching posts. I have six cats, they ALL use the hell out of them, completely stripped the sisal off the last two I had, stripped them right down to the wood. I just bought new ones this year.
 
My cats use the post because the scratching post is nicer than the sofa, is imbued with catnip and allows the cat to fully stretch up. Your cats used the furniture because it was already scent marked. How well did hitting the cat make them stop, hm?

I have six cats, they all have (very sharp) claws, they use the scratching posts, they love those things. They don't use my furniture.

I would ask, again, that you refrain from talking about hitting cats and saying you get good results. Hitting a toddler gets good results, too. Slap them often enough, hard enough, and they're afraid to do anything and you get them to the point that they duck when you raise your hand. Hitting cats makes them afraid of you and instills negative behaviors. It is not good pet ownership, and considering I've owned cats, rescued cats and participated in the day to day operations of my mother in laws pedigreed show cattery -- longer than you've been on this planet, I might add -- I think I might know what I'm talking about.

As for food, firstly, I wouldn't feed my cat anything I wouldn't put in my mouth, myself. Secondly, people get this daft idea that they need to change the animals food up (or they just want to buy the cheapest shit on sale). No, you find a wholesome, well balanced food and feed that, all the time, period. Cats are extreme creatures of habit. Feed them the same stuff every day for the rest of the their lives, they don't give a shit. It's nutrients and calories to them, nothing else.
 
My doc told me it was no big deal, just to have someone else change the litter box. I'm glad to have a break from doing it lol

It's nice to have a convenient excuse to get out of a tedious chore! Especially when it's a legitimate excuse.

While we're on the subject of not cutting, if your pending offspring is male I hope you'll consider not letting them circumcise him.
 
While we're on the subject of not cutting, if your pending offspring is male I hope you'll consider not letting them circumcise him.
Talk about an odd seque, from declawing to foreskins.

I told my ex the following: "I don't have one of those, the circumcision decision is up to you."
 
Talk about an odd seque, from declawing to foreskins.

I told my ex the following: "I don't have one of those, the circumcision decision is up to you."

They both involve leaving small life forms intact when they're under our care.
 
I had no idea the field of feline psychology was so advanced.
What, just because an animal only has rudimentary frontal lobes it's incapable of thinking and feeling? I don't delude myself that they can think like us, but they do "think." Besides, aren't we supposed to be the evolved ones? Trying to understand an animal that you choose to keep as a companion seems perfectly logical.

To be honest, cats impress me specifically because they get some damned funny ideas in those tiny little brains and because they are solitary animals, unlike dogs. Pack structure sort of emulates human lifestyle. Cats, on the other hand, are very different from us and still they communicate with us, interacting understandably.

And you can't tell me it's purely about survival and exploiting human weaknesses. Here's an example of what I'm thinking about: Almost all cats instinctively retreat from loud noises, particularly raised voices, yet if I get into a disagreement or loud discussion with my husband one of my cats gets between us and starts meowing, insistantly. The first time she did this I didn't really pay attention. But then I realized she does it every time. She doesn't shut up and settle down until we lower our voices and calm down. If we put her out of the room and continue the discussion she'll sit outside the door, pawing at it and meowing. The cat is clearly upset, but instead of doing what it seems instinct would dictate, hiding out until things calm down, she's getting in the middle of it. Her thinking is over-riding instinct. That intrigues the hell out of me.
 
awesome cat.........they definitely have more going on than anyone really knows.



What, just because an animal only has rudimentary frontal lobes it's incapable of thinking and feeling? I don't delude myself that they can think like us, but they do "think." Besides, aren't we supposed to be the evolved ones? Trying to understand an animal that you choose to keep as a companion seems perfectly logical.

To be honest, cats impress me specifically because they get some damned funny ideas in those tiny little brains and because they are solitary animals, unlike dogs. Pack structure sort of emulates human lifestyle. Cats, on the other hand, are very different from us and still they communicate with us, interacting understandably.

And you can't tell me it's purely about survival and exploiting human weaknesses. Here's an example of what I'm thinking about: Almost all cats instinctively retreat from loud noises, particularly raised voices, yet if I get into a disagreement or loud discussion with my husband one of my cats gets between us and starts meowing, insistantly. The first time she did this I didn't really pay attention. But then I realized she does it every time. She doesn't shut up and settle down until we lower our voices and calm down. If we put her out of the room and continue the discussion she'll sit outside the door, pawing at it and meowing. The cat is clearly upset, but instead of doing what it seems instinct would dictate, hiding out until things calm down, she's getting in the middle of it. Her thinking is over-riding instinct. That intrigues the hell out of me.
 
awesome cat.........they definitely have more going on than anyone really knows.
I confess, this may be perhaps the most intelligent cat I've ever had the privilege of owning. She understands a lotof commands and uses her own vocalizations very effectively, e.g., she'll meow until you look at her, then when you look at her she'll silently meow, very weird.

She made up this game, she jumps on my office chair and lays across the back, hanging on with her paws on the front and the back. She keeps meowing until I spin the chair. Every time she passes me she meows at me, once (kind of like a kid on a merry go round saying "Hi mommy"). If I keep spinning her eventually she jumps off and when I stop the chair she jumps back on, facing the opposite direction and repeats the process.

She killed a mouse and I found it a few days after it was dead :worried: as I was disposing of it she was watching me, so I praised her good work. The next time she brought the mouse to us immediately, alive and unharmed. She actually jumped up on the bed while hubby and I were watching t.v. and spit the thing out on the comforter, sort of like "Here, you liked the dead one so much I thought I'd give you a lively one this time." Another time I was on the phone with my office and she was meowing to get my attention but her voice sounded really weird. I looked at her and realized she had an entire mouse in her mouth because the tail was hanging out of her mouth (she was meowing around the tail). As soon as she had my attention she spit out the mouse. It shot under the bed and she looked at me like I was an idiot.
 
Cats rock. I have 2

They came as a pair. But the female was declawed whereas the male was too old when the previous owner took them both it. So the fuckin vet declawed one but not the other. Now the female gets her ass kicked on a consistant basis. but the male never really hurts her, just kinda bopz her on the nugget and bits her ear every now and again.

My cats are very much like pack animals. They sleep together all the time. They hate to be apart for too long. When I am around they follow me around the house and meow at me.

I love my 2 furry friends. they really make life alot more interesting and enjoyable.
 
Cruelty at its worst. I'm sad for your creatures.
 
Declaw a cat. Im an idiot and declawed my cat for the first time 5 years ago and Im convinced that it is the cause of his behavior problems. I feel so bad. I didnt know any better. I'd never declawed a cat before - and for some reason thought it would be a brilliant idea to get these two declawed.

Well, one turned out okay, and the other is always a nervous neurotic wreck. I cant explain it any other way because I've never had such a strange cat. He actually pulls out his own hair. Poor guy. Plus, now that I live away from traffic, I could let them outside, but now I cant, they are prisioners in my house and its my fault

Lesson learned. :(

Give em some Zoloft or something. He has a form of OCD.
 
What do you say to someone whose cat rips sofas and curtains and scratches babies and other stuff?

For many people who have cat out of contorl anti-social cats - it's either declawing or give it to the pound where it most likely will be put to sleep.

So the option becomes: declaw or let it be put down? Which is better?

r
 
What do you say to someone whose cat rips sofas and curtains and scratches babies and other stuff?

For many people who have cat out of contorl anti-social cats - it's either declawing or give it to the pound where it most likely will be put to sleep.

So the option becomes: declaw or let it be put down? Which is better?

r
As I've stated before, I've owned cats all my life, and all of my son's life. The only time my son was ever scratched badly by a cat he was about 3 and he was abusing a cat (trying to pick it up). I had told him repeatedly that it was no, and tried to never let him be alone with any of the cats, but a girl has to pee sometimes. Truthfully, the cat taught my son what he refused to learn from me. It was not pretty but he survived unscarred and stopped trying to pick them up.

As for the rest of it, as I've explained previously, if a cat does not have a satisfactory outlet for scratching it will scratch where ever it can. And guess what, if you don't provide them a satisfactory place to shit and piss, they just might do it in your bed. If you want to keep pets, you should at least educate yourself rudimentarily about their behavior and be willing to do more than just sling some food at them occasionally. A pet is not a robot or a stuffed toy, it is a living, breathing being, with instinctive drives and it's own particular needs and wants. Better to think of a pet as essentially a small, furry, eternal toddler. If you aren't willing to take on the responsibility for caring for that toddler appropriately, and that means providing it with the "toys" and mental stimulus to be physically and mentally happy, then maybe you need to rethink pet ownership.

If you bring a kitten or young cat into a house where there's always a scratching post, and play with them around the post, they quickly learn, and enjoy, doing the right thing.

I have furniture, I have curtains, I have six cats and all they use to scratch is this (this is from the website, not any of my cats):

McG%201.jpg


Cat Scratching Post by TopCat Products
 
poor kitty....just do the best you can.

i would never think of declawing any of the cats i've had though...just seems unnatural (aside from the actual physiology aspect of it). my bengal would be miserable without her claws, its part of her character to be a hunter even as an indoor cat
 
musclemom;8820188s said:
As for the rest of it, as I've explained previously, if a cat does not have a satisfactory outlet for scratching it will scratch where ever it can. And guess what, if you don't provide them a satisfactory place to shit and piss, they just might do it in your bed. If you want to keep pets, you should at least educate yourself rudimentarily about their behavior and be willing to do more than just sling some food at them occasionally. A pet is not a robot or a stuffed toy, it is a living, breathing being, with instinctive drives and it's own

Do you really think people at the pet store goign 'Awww look at the cute kitty!! Little Susie loves it! Let's buy it for her' is going to go to EliteFitness and read that proverb first??

Nope.

So that doesn't answer the question. Americans are retards and go out buy 'cute little kitty!!!' first and then realize cat is clawing the furniture later.

And then you get the option of put it to sleep and make little susie cry ... or declaw it. So that's the options unless you want to start making PSA commercials on TV advising cat purchasers to have 'outlets for it's scratching' before buying it.

And since u can't do that - the declawing will continue.

r
 
Do you really think people at the pet store goign 'Awww look at the cute kitty!! Little Susie loves it! Let's buy it for her' is going to go to EliteFitness and read that proverb first??

Nope.

So that doesn't answer the question. Americans are retards and go out buy 'cute little kitty!!!' first and then realize cat is clawing the furniture later.

And then you get the option of put it to sleep and make little susie cry ... or declaw it. So that's the options unless you want to start making PSA commercials on TV advising cat purchasers to have 'outlets for it's scratching' before buying it.

And since u can't do that - the declawing will continue.

r
Don't you get it, no, I can't change the world, and I can't snap my fingers and make declawing illegal. But that is no excuse not to continue to try to educate people!

Any person who has read this thread may have picked up some information they never knew before and perhaps they are cat owners, or know cat owners, or know someone who will someday be a cat owner. And if even ONE person shares information they glean that changes a person's mind about having a unnecessary and potentially harmful or even cruel surgery performed, then it is enough, because it's all I can do. Just because I can't make a problem instantly vanish does not mean I should just throw up my hands and say "Fuck it."

I can't change the world, but I can be content with trying to improve my little piece of it.
 
IMPLANT NEW, RETRACTABLE ADAMANTIUM STEEL CLAWS FOR YOUR CAT


then wipe out his memory and change his name to wolverine
 
It's nice to have a convenient excuse to get out of a tedious chore! Especially when it's a legitimate excuse.

While we're on the subject of not cutting, if your pending offspring is male I hope you'll consider not letting them circumcise him.

It is one of the few perks to being pregnant. During the first three months my husband was soooooo glad he wasnt the one that had to be pregnant, he didnt complain at all. As well he shouldnt.

And, my pending offspring is female - but I let my husband decide on circumcision,(we talked about it before we knew) and he was all in....so yeah. We woulda circumcised him.

I dont think circumcision is standard anymore though, Im not even sure if insurance covers it anymore?
 
if anyone knew, i'd figure it would be you.
Why on earth would he know? He's going to be an anesthesiologist, the last I heard, not a vet.

According to this tidbit I found, all primates and most mammals have foreskins. In fact, they specifically mention it being something we have in common with cats, rats and whales.

Forsaking The Foreskin
 
it was a joke, because he's infatuated with cats.
Actually I get the feeling he's kind of neutral, Shrimp-po and a couple others are definitely anti-cat, and me and Neph are the board crazy cat ladies, but I think since I have six furballs in current residence I may be the slightly crazier cat lady.
 
Actually I get the feeling he's kind of neutral, Shrimp-po and a couple others are definitely anti-cat, and me and Neph are the board crazy cat ladies, but I think since I have six furballs in current residence I may be the slightly crazier cat lady.

no, i'm 99% sure chris really really likes cats.


hell, he's snuggled up with on in his gallery.
 
lol I definately like all animals, cept snakes mainly. I've helped bottle feed orphan kittens on several occasions when I was younger (we had a pretty fucked up mother cat) but I dont like cats so much that I have to put down every other species as inferior. They've all got their pro's and con's. I mean, that's why Noah let them on the ark, right? lololol

Seriously in a perfect world where we didnt have to worry about making a living, I'd live on a farm and raise all sorts of animals for no damn good reason.
 
lol I definately like all animals, cept snakes mainly. I've helped bottle feed orphan kittens on several occasions when I was younger (we had a pretty fucked up mother cat) but I dont like cats so much that I have to put down every other species as inferior. They've all got their pro's and con's. I mean, that's why Noah let them on the ark, right? lololol

Seriously in a perfect world where we didnt have to worry about making a living, I'd live on a farm and raise all sorts of animals for no damn good reason.
Kewl. I confess, feline behavior fascinates me (which is why I actually list cats as one of my hobbies under interests), but I also admit I have a problem, so there it is. Honestly, I only really notice when people actively dislike cats and assume most people on this board are dog people or neutral.

I did the orphan kitten routine more than once, doesn't always take a bad mom. I had one cat that had a rough delivery of a litter of 10 (yes, 10). Three were stillborn, one was an utter freak that got stuck coming out, must have torn her and she came down with an infection almost immediately. I ended up with a litter of 7 three day old kittens on my hands. Got 5 of them to adulthood. Boy did I learn a lot about kitten development though.

Fraid I'm a bit neutral on the Noah's ark story since the Babylonians told it first in the tales of Gilgamesh :lmao:
 
Kewl. I confess, feline behavior fascinates me (which is why I actually list cats as one of my hobbies under interests), but I also admit I have a problem, so there it is. Honestly, I only really notice when people actively dislike cats and assume most people on this board are dog people or neutral.

I did the orphan kitten routine more than once, doesn't always take a bad mom. I had one cat that had a rough delivery of a litter of 10 (yes, 10). Three were stillborn, one was an utter freak that got stuck coming out, must have torn her and she came down with an infection almost immediately. I ended up with a litter of 7 three day old kittens on my hands. Got 5 of them to adulthood. Boy did I learn a lot about kitten development though.

Fraid I'm a bit neutral on the Noah's ark story since the Babylonians told it first in the tales of Gilgamesh :lmao:

Wait, the Babylonians created the Smurf's?
gargamel.jpg




lol, I'm just glad noah make the door small enough that the dinosaurs couldn't get on the boat.
 
Wait, the Babylonians created the Smurf's?
gargamel.jpg




lol, I'm just glad noah make the door small enough that the dinosaurs couldn't get on the boat.
:lmao: A cheap imitation at best:

gilgamesh_louvre.jpg
 
De-clawing cats is illegal or ethically frowned upon in most EU countries. As is circumcision (ethically frowned upon that is), except for religious reasons, but even then some are rejecting it for ethical reasons.

I really don't understand why you would cut off a part of the penis.
 
If I wasnt already circumcised, I'd do it myself.... I thank my parents every day when I look at my beautiful penis.

LOLOLlooolll

thats why I left the decision up to Johnny should it be a boy. He's the best one to make a decision on what a man in our society would want....not me...I could care less either way.
 
I think men only want circumcision as it is the norm in North America.

Less than 10% of men are circumcised in Europe (with exceptions of Jewish and Muslim men who are circumcised for religious reasons), and then typically, it is due to a medical reason (of which there are very few).

I think a penis looks odd when it is circumcised, and in some cases, quite ugly.
 
I am terrified of uncircumsized penis


Yes, the penis is a very scary appendage. :)

The foreskin pulls back when it is erect, so it looks more like the typical circumcised penis, except much nicer.

While it is debated, the general consensus is that the foreskin add pleasure for a man and it does make certain sexual practices much easier.
 
Yes, the penis is a very scary appendage. :)

The foreskin pulls back when it is erect, so it looks more like the typical circumcised penis, except much nicer.

While it is debated, the general consensus is that the foreskin add pleasure for a man and it does make certain sexual practices much easier.
A line like that is sure to pique one's curiosity but I think we're verging on moving a cat declawing thread to BTS :lmao:

I've uh, never had the uh, pleasure, personally (not that I'm the most sexually experienced girl around) but I've seen a few at clothing optional gatherings and festivals. It's extremely impolite to stare but the first few I noticed really were odd looking. They are a huge minority in N. America, at least going by naked pagans :FRlol:
 
I think men only want circumcision as it is the norm in North America.

Less than 10% of men are circumcised in Europe (with exceptions of Jewish and Muslim men who are circumcised for religious reasons), and then typically, it is due to a medical reason (of which there are very few).

I think a penis looks odd when it is circumcised, and in some cases, quite ugly.

how could it possibly look ugly? that would mean you think uncircumsized cocks look ugly after they get hard (i think, iv never seen one just heard rumors).

also, saying a uncircumsized cock is better looking tan a circumsized cock is like saying a floppy messy beef curtainy vagina is more pleasing to the eye than a nice trim innie of a vagina.

it just aint so
 
also, saying a uncircumsized cock is better looking tan a circumsized cock is like saying a floppy messy beef curtainy vagina is more pleasing to the eye than a nice trim innie of a vagina.

it just aint so

It's almost entirely a matter of what you're used to. The cocks you've had in your life were obviously all circumcised.
 
how could it possibly look ugly? that would mean you think uncircumsized cocks look ugly after they get hard (i think, iv never seen one just heard rumors).

also, saying a uncircumsized cock is better looking tan a circumsized cock is like saying a floppy messy beef curtainy vagina is more pleasing to the eye than a nice trim innie of a vagina.

it just aint so


Yes it is so.

Circumcision does not always turn out all that well.

It is a matter of what you are used to.

I find it odd that so many men just accept chopping off a part of their penis that is attached to the most sensitive part of it for an outdated and prudish medical reasoning.
 
I find it odd that so many men just accept chopping off a part of their penis that is attached to the most sensitive part of it for an outdated and prudish medical reasoning.

The idea of performing cosmetic surgery on the genitals of infants is just sick.
 
Is this true??? Yikes! :(

Baby is strapped down in an uncomfortable spread eagle position while the surgeon scrubs
*Without anesthesia, the surgeon grasps the overhanging foreskin with a pair of hemostats and opens up the overhanging foreskin
*Still without anesthesia, the foreskin is forcibly torn away from the glans (breaking up the adhesions that make it stick like glue)
*The foreskin is crushed at the point where it is to be cut (either by tying on a plastibell or clamping the Gomco upon it
*The foreskin is cut away in a circular fashion (hence the name "circumcision"...a "circumferencial incision").
*The foreskin is either discarded or sold to cosmetic companies for use in makeup and face cream


:( I dont know if I would do if I were a mommy to a boy. What if he was mad at me that I didnt have the procedure done when he was a baby? At the same time ouch! :(
 
Is this true??? Yikes! :(

Baby is strapped down in an uncomfortable spread eagle position while the surgeon scrubs
*Without anesthesia, the surgeon grasps the overhanging foreskin with a pair of hemostats and opens up the overhanging foreskin
*Still without anesthesia, the foreskin is forcibly torn away from the glans (breaking up the adhesions that make it stick like glue)
*The foreskin is crushed at the point where it is to be cut (either by tying on a plastibell or clamping the Gomco upon it
*The foreskin is cut away in a circular fashion (hence the name "circumcision"...a "circumferencial incision").
*The foreskin is either discarded or sold to cosmetic companies for use in makeup and face cream


:( I dont know if I would do if I were a mommy to a boy. What if he was mad at me that I didnt have the procedure done when he was a baby? At the same time ouch! :(


please check your k

ultimately it is you and johnny's decision.
 
Is this true??? Yikes! :(

Baby is strapped down in an uncomfortable spread eagle position while the surgeon scrubs
*Without anesthesia, the surgeon grasps the overhanging foreskin with a pair of hemostats and opens up the overhanging foreskin
*Still without anesthesia, the foreskin is forcibly torn away from the glans (breaking up the adhesions that make it stick like glue)
*The foreskin is crushed at the point where it is to be cut (either by tying on a plastibell or clamping the Gomco upon it
*The foreskin is cut away in a circular fashion (hence the name "circumcision"...a "circumferencial incision").
*The foreskin is either discarded or sold to cosmetic companies for use in makeup and face cream

:( I dont know if I would do if I were a mommy to a boy. What if he was mad at me that I didnt have the procedure done when he was a baby? At the same time ouch! :(
If you're having it done in a hospital, a opposed to a Rabbi, then yes, that's how it's done (heck, even the Jews give the kid a little wine, jeez). But no anesthetic, too risky with infants (though I don't know why they don't use a spray anesthetic at least).

When my husband said, "Get the circumcision" I questioned it, his reasoning was very simple: I am, and in gym class, I've never seen another guy who wasn't. Do you want him to feel that he's weird? I asked if it would even be an issue, do guys look at each other's junk that much, and he said "he'll get noticed if he isn't, and they'll hassle him, it's the way boys are."

I couldn't argue with that, kids are mean little fuckers. My son has never bitched at me about it and he's pretty open so :whatever:
 
Is this true??? Yikes! :(

Baby is strapped down in an uncomfortable spread eagle position while the surgeon scrubs
*Without anesthesia, the surgeon grasps the overhanging foreskin with a pair of hemostats and opens up the overhanging foreskin
*Still without anesthesia, the foreskin is forcibly torn away from the glans (breaking up the adhesions that make it stick like glue)
*The foreskin is crushed at the point where it is to be cut (either by tying on a plastibell or clamping the Gomco upon it
*The foreskin is cut away in a circular fashion (hence the name "circumcision"...a "circumferencial incision").
*The foreskin is either discarded or sold to cosmetic companies for use in makeup and face cream


:( I dont know if I would do if I were a mommy to a boy. What if he was mad at me that I didnt have the procedure done when he was a baby? At the same time ouch! :(

better as a baby than when it gets super infected and diseased putting the penis at risk of falling off.

then they have to circumsize u anyway as a cure/prevention of the fucked up gengrenous penis
 
better as a baby than when it gets super infected and diseased putting the penis at risk of falling off.

then they have to circumsize u anyway as a cure/prevention of the fucked up gengrenous penis

Where did you come up with this rot? What makes you think there's any risk involved in having an intact penis?
 
Okay, I don't care whether you circumcise or dont circumcise, but I want you to have as much REAL data on it to make a decision and not a bunch of opinions from the internet.




Circumcision: Risks and benefits
Author
Craig Shoemaker, MD
Section Editors
Charles J Lockwood, MD
Joseph A Garcia-Prats, MD
John G Bartlett, MD
Deputy Editor
Vanessa A Barss, MD

Last literature review version 17.1: January 2009 | This topic last updated: January 15, 2009 (More)

INTRODUCTION — Circumcision in the male refers to the surgical removal of the foreskin (ie, prepuce) of the penis. The procedure is centuries old and continues to be performed for a variety of religious, cultural, and medical reasons.

Parents of newborn males often have questions about circumcision: Is it necessary? What are its benefits? What are its risks? Nevertheless, major factors in parental decision-making are the father's circumcision status, opinions of family members and friends, a desire for conformity in their son's appearance, and the belief that the circumcised penis is easier to keep clean [1]. Maternal education is another important deciding factor. In the United States, there is a direct positive correlation between higher maternal education and elective circumcision in the Midwest and South, but an inverse correlation in the West [2-4].

The risks and benefits of circumcision will be reviewed here, with the focus on circumcision of neonates. Procedures for neonatal circumcision are discussed separately. (See "Procedures for neonatal circumcision").

HISTORICAL BACKGROUND — The practice of male circumcision dates as far back as ancient Egypt, several thousand years before the birth of Christ, when circumcision was performed to improve male hygiene and for purification. Routine circumcision of male infants was also part of the Abrahamic covenants with Jehovah; all males of that tribe were circumcised as a sign of the covenant, a tradition that continues today as a religious symbol for followers of Judaism. Circumcision is also practiced by the followers of Islam and certain aboriginal tribes in Africa and Australia as a rite of passage into manhood [5].

Although Christians initially did not espouse the practice, circumcision became popular in western cultures in the mid-19th century to prevent masturbation [6]. Circumcision was also proposed as a means of preventing or treating a variety of medical problems, such as epilepsy, polio, and diarrhea.

PREVALENCE — The United States is the only country in the developed world where the majority of male infants are circumcised for nonreligious reasons. Circumcision rates in the United States vary according to geographic area, socioeconomic status, religious affiliation, insurance coverage, hospital type, and racial and ethnic group. Rates based on hospital coding data (circumcision prevalence 55 to 65 percent) probably underestimate the true prevalence of circumcised males (80 to 85 percent) due to miscoding and because some circumcisions are performed after hospital discharge or later in life for religious, medical or personal reasons [2-7].

The overall prevalence of circumcision in healthy newborn male infants appears to have decreased from the 1970s, but the decrease has not been linear: from 1988 to 2000 the rate of circumcision of newborn infants prior to hospital discharge increased by 6.8 percent per year [2,3].

Circumcision rates in other nations tend to be lower, but vary from less than 20 percent to over 80 percent of males [8].

NORMAL PENILE DEVELOPMENT AND HYGIENE — The skin of the body of the penis starts to grow over the glans at approximately 8 weeks of gestation, eventually covering the entire organ. This skin is referred to as the foreskin or prepuce; its purpose is assumed to be protection of the glans. It is keratinized, except for the mucosal surface adjacent to the glans.

At birth, there is incomplete separation of the epithelial layers of the foreskin and glans, usually resulting in congenital or physiological phimosis (ie, inability to retract the distal prepuce over the glans penis). The separation process continues through childhood via desquamation and epidermal keratinization of the shaft. The foreskin becomes easily retracted from the glans over time (50 percent are easily retractable by three years of age; 95 percent by five years of age; 99 percent by adolescence). Retracting the foreskin while it is still firmly attached to the glans could cause injury [9,10].

The uncircumcised penis is generally easy to keep clean. Gentle washing of the genital area while bathing is sufficient in newborns and toddlers. Later, when the foreskin is fully retractable, boys should be taught the importance of washing beneath the foreskin on a regular basis.

COUNSELING — When counseling parents regarding infant male circumcision, it is important to consider the potential medical benefits and risks, as well as the social and religious aspects of this procedure. It is also important to consider that the magnitude of some benefits depends upon when the circumcision is performed; these benefits may not occur or may be less prominent if circumcision is postponed from infancy into late adulthood.

A 2001 survey in California reported that 40 percent of parents believed they had not been provided with enough information regarding circumcision for their son [11]. Parents of children who were not circumcised said that no medical provider discussed circumcision with them, whereas only 15 percent of parents of children who were circumcised stated they were not counseled. Parents of uncircumcised infants were more likely to be unhappy with their initial decision than parents of circumcised infants, 27 versus 14 percent. Another survey of 108 Utah mothers noted that six of the 15 mothers whose first born children were uncircumcised would choose to have their subsequent male children circumcised as a result of the stress of caring for their infants without adequate instruction [12].

There are no studies that give reliable data about the number of males who are circumcised after birth for elective or surgical indications. An Australian survey found that approximately 18 percent of males who were not circumcised as infants reported that they were circumcised subsequently [13,14].

BENEFITS — Circumcision has been associated with a number of medical benefits, including lower rates of urinary tract infection, penile cancer, penile inflammation, penile dermatoses, and sexually transmitted infections [15,16].

Reduction in urinary tract infection — Urinary tract infection (UTI) is uncommon in males at any age. The effect of circumcision on UTI has been studied primarily in infants because they have a higher prevalence of UTI than older males. UTIs in infants can have serious sequelae, such as lifelong renal dysfunction or, rarely, septicemia and death. The prevalence of UTIs in uncircumcised adult males increases with age and certain disease states, such as diabetes mellitus [17,18]. (See "Acute cystitis and asymptomatic bacteriuria in men" and see "Epidemiology and risk factors for urinary tract infections in children"). In a study of men with a mean age of 30 years, and matched for race, age and sexual activity, the circumcised had a lower rate of UTI [18].

All studies have demonstrated that circumcised male infants are at lower risk of UTIs than uncircumcised male infants [9,19-23]. The risk of UTI is, on average, 3 to 12-fold lower in circumcised infants. However, since the absolute risk of UTI is small (0.4 to 1 percent) in male infants, approximately 100 to 200 circumcisions would need to be performed to prevent one UTI.

Some representative examples of these studies are described below:

* A population-based cohort study of 58,000 Canadian infants reported hospital admission rates for UTI in circumcised and uncircumcised infant males under one year of age were 1.88 and 7.02 per 1000 person years, respectively [20]. It was estimated that approximately 195 circumcisions would be needed to prevent one hospital admission for UTI in the first year of life.

* A review of the medical records of 427,698 infants born in United States military hospitals found that the incidence of UTI in uncircumcised male infants, circumcised male infants, and female infants was 1.03, 0.10, and 0.52 percent per year, respectively [21].

* A literature review examining the rate of symptomatic UTI in male infants under age one year calculated a rate in circumcised and uncircumcised infants of 1 to 2 and 7 to 14 per 1000 infants, respectively [9]. In another study, the odds ratio for UTI in uncircumcised compared to circumcised males was 11.6 (95% CI 5.0-26.6) [22].

* A meta-analysis of nine studies published between 1984 and 1992 noted a 12-fold increased risk of UTI in uncircumcised males [24]. Most of the studies analyzed were case-control designs that analyzed the rate of UTI in the first year of life.

Uncircumcised male infants under six months of age have higher numbers of uropathogenic bacteria bound to the mucosal surface of the foreskin and at the urethral meatus than infants who have been circumcised [25]. This colonization probably plays a role in the pathogenesis of urinary infection. However, factors other than circumcision may affect the observed rate of UTI in these reports [9]. As an example, most hospitalized premature infants are not circumcised. Since premature infants have a higher rate of UTI than term infants, the inclusion of premature infants in a series may confound the data. Other factors that can affect UTI rates include the method of urine collection, type and timing of circumcision, and breastfeeding status (protective effect [26]).

Reduction of cancer — Compared to uncircumcised men, circumcised men appear to have a lower risk of penile cancer, and their sexual partners may have a lower risk of cervical cancer.

Penile cancer — Squamous cell cancer of the penis is a rare disease. The age-adjusted incidence in the United States is less than 1 per 100,000 males, comparable to that in other developed countries [27]. It has been estimated that the risk is increased three to six-fold in uncircumcised men. Much of the protective benefit of circumcision is lost if circumcision is not performed in early infancy. The data supporting these conclusions are presented separately. (See "Carcinoma of the penis: Epidemiology, risk factors, and clinical presentation", section on Circumcision).

Cervical cancer in partners — Cervical cancer is less common in the sexual partners of circumcised men. In one study, sex with either uncircumcised men or men circumcised after infancy increased a woman's risk of cervical cancer four-fold [28].

HPV infection is a necessary, but not sufficient, factor in development of virtually all cervical cancer. A partial explanation for the link between cervical cancer and lack of male circumcision is that uncircumcised men are more likely to acquire and transmit HPV to their partners [29] (see "Sexually transmitted infections (not including HIV)" below). (See "Invasive cervical cancer: Epidemiology, clinical features, and diagnosis", section on Role of human papillomavirus).

Other — Case-control studies have reported that circumcised men have a lower rate of prostate cancer than uncircumcised men [30,31]. This could be related to multiple confounders; further investigation is required.

Reduction in penile inflammation and retractile disorders — Penile inflammatory disorders, such as meatitis and balanitis (ie, inflammation of the glans), are less common in circumcised men, but can develop whether or not circumcision has been performed. Balanoposthitis, a suppurative inflammation of the glans and foreskin, usually requires surgical intervention [17]. Uncircumcised males who retract the foreskin while bathing are less likely to experience problems with inflammation [32]. (See "Balanoposthitis in children: clinical manifestations, diagnosis, and treatment").

Most studies suggest penile problems occur more often in uncircumcised men [33-35]:

* A longitudinal study of 500 New Zealand boys followed from birth to age 8 reported that circumcised infants had a higher rate of meatitis in infancy, but a lower rate of penile problems after infancy due to absence of foreskin-associated disorders (eg, balanitis and inflammation) [33]. By age 8, the rate of penile problems in circumcised and uncircumcised boys was 11.1 and 18.8 problems per 100 children, respectively. Most of these problems were minor and could be treated medically, but some required surgical intervention for phimosis or balanoposthitis.

* A retrospective survey of 272 uncircumcised boys and 273 controls who were circumcised at birth found that the total frequency of medical visits for penile problems (eg, balanitis, irritation, phimosis) was significantly lower in the circumcised group (5 versus 10 percent, respectively) [34]. Most of the problems were minor.

Chronic inflammation or repeated forceful retraction of a congenital phimosis may cause scarring and secondary phimosis, which sometimes requires surgical intervention [13,14,36]. Frequent catheterization without replacement of the foreskin, poor hygiene, and chronic balanoposthitis can lead to phimosis and eventual paraphimosis (ie, entrapment of a retracted foreskin behind the coronal sulcus). Urinary obstruction, hematuria, pain, and edema and necrosis of the glans may occur in severe cases. (See "Paraphimosis: Definition, pathophysiology, and clinical features").

Acute and recurrent problems of the foreskin can sometimes be managed medically with hyaluronidase or topical betamethasone cream [37,38], but mechanical or surgical intervention may be required.

Reduction in sexually transmitted infections — If only biological factors are considered, uncircumcised men may be at greater risk of acquiring sexually transmitted infections because the warm, moist environment provided by the prepuce may provide more favorable conditions for infection than the circumcised glans.

A significant reduction in risk of acquiring sexually transmitted infections would be an important medical benefit of circumcision. However, behavioral factors, such as having a low number of sexual partners and consistent correct use of condoms, are probably more important than circumcision status for protection against sexually transmissible diseases. Unfortunately, there is no evidence that any public health or educational program has had an effect on the hygienic practices of adolescent or adult males, other than the increased use of condoms in a few HIV high risk populations in the western world [39-41]. (See "Prevention of sexually transmitted diseases").

HIV infection — Randomized trials in South Africa, Kenya, and Uganda have shown that circumcision protects against the acquisition of HIV [42-45]. As an example, a randomized trial in South Africa demonstrated that the risk of acquiring human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection was 50 to 60 percent lower in adult men who were offered circumcision at trial entry compared to those who were not offered circumcision [43]. It is presumed that neonatal circumcision would offer a similar benefit. (See "The stages and natural history of HIV infection", section on Lack of circumcision).

In Africa, the lack of circumcision appears to be one of several facilitating factors in HIV seroconversion. The World Health Organization has recommended that circumcision be considered as part of a comprehensive HIV prevention package that includes provision of voluntary HIV testing and counseling services, treatment for sexually transmitted infections, promotion of safer sex practices (delayed initiation of sexual activity, reduced numbers of sexual partners, avoidance of penetrative sex), and provision of male and female condoms and promotion of their correct and consistent use [46]. Additional research is required to develop male circumcision programs in resource poor settings, but there is increasing support for circumcision as a part of the preventative public health care plan for the prevention of HIV spread in Africa [47].

It is important to remember that circumcision does not provide complete protection against acquisition of HIV infection and that there is no strong evidence that circumcised HIV-infected men are less likely to transmit the infection to their female or male partners [46].

Circumcision may significantly reduce HIV infection because the inner aspect of the foreskin appears to be richer in cells with HIV-1 receptors than the glans [48-50]. Thus, removal of these target cells may reduce, but not eliminate, the risk of acquiring infection when the man is exposed to HIV.

Sexually transmitted infections (not including HIV) — An embedded study within the randomized South African trial discussed above [43] assessed the effect of circumcision on acquisition of high oncogenic risk HPV (HR-HPV), Neisseria gonorrhoeae, and Trichomonas vaginalis infections [51,75]. Urethral swabs and urine samples were analyzed using PCR.

* Male circumcision had a protective effect on HR-HPV prevalence (intention-to-treat analysis, HR-HPV prevalence in the circumcision group 14.8 percent (94/637) versus 22.3 percent (140/627) in the control group; RR 0.66, 95%CI 0.51-0.86) [75].

* Male circumcision had a borderline effect on prevalence of trichomonas infection (intention to treat analysis OR 0.54, 95% CI 0.29-1.03), but the reduction became statistically significant in the 'as treated' analysis (OR 0.49, 95% CI 0.25-0.93) [51].

* There was no evidence of a protective effect against Neisseria gonorrhoeae infection [51].

This study is the best evidence to date that circumcision reduces the risk of HR-HPV and trichomonas infections among heterosexual men and explains why women with circumcised partners are at a lower risk of cervical cancer than other women.

Females can benefit from male circumcision, as well. An analysis of the spouses of men enrolled in another randomized trial of adult male circumcision for HIV prevention [45] found partners of circumcised men had lower rates of genital ulceration (adjusted prevalence risk ratio [aPRR] 0.78, 95% CI 0.61-0.99), trichomonas infection (aPRR 0.55, 95%CI 0.34-0.89), and bacterial vaginosis (aPRR 0.82, 95% CI 0.74-0.91) than partners of uncircumcised men [52]. Possible explanations for these findings are that circumcised men may be less susceptible to infection/colonization with these organisms or the circumcised penis may be less likely to transmit these organisms than the uncircumcised penis.

Easier hygiene — Genital hygiene is easier in the absence of a foreskin. Good hygiene may prevent many problems associated with the foreskin [32], but can be difficult to maintain in uncircumcised boys, even in developed countries. Studies of middle class British and Scandinavian schoolboys concluded that penile hygiene is usually not well-maintained [10,53].

RISKS — The rate of procedure-related complications during and after circumcision is approximately 2 to 5 per 1000 cases [54-56], with most of these problems readily treatable and causing no long-term effects. Unsatisfactory cosmetic results (too little or too much skin removed) are also reported. The most common, significant medical complications of male circumcision are bleeding and local infection [19,57]. Most bleeding can be controlled simply by applying pressure to the bleeding site. Silver nitrate can also be used to control bleeding, but the use of topical epinephrine should be avoided because of possible compromise to circulation of the penile shaft.

Uncommon, but significant complications include life-threatening sepsis or death, buried penis, urethrocutaneous fistula, meatitis and meatal stenosis, and amputation of the glans [57]. Additional rare, but serious, complications have been described in case reports.

One of the largest studies on complications after circumcision included approximately 136,000 boys [54]. The frequency of complications and genitourinary problems among circumcised neonates was 0.19 percent, a figure comparable to the 0.24 percent rate of urinary tract infections in uncircumcised neonates. The complications of circumcision included 83 hemorrhages (31 required ligature, three required transfusion), 62 local infections, eight cases of bacteremia, 25 instances of surgical trauma, and 20 urinary tract infections. Parents should weigh the severity and incidence of these complications against the morbidity of the diagnosis, treatment, and complications of UTI in uncircumcised boys, as well as the other medical issues discussed above.

Cosmesis — If insufficient foreskin is removed, the penis may not appear to be circumcised, and phimosis and urinary obstruction may develop. Treatment consists of reoperation to remove additional foreskin. Although occurring infrequently, the foreskin may grow in the months after the procedure and circumcision may need to be repeated for satisfactory cosmesis.

If too much skin is pulled over the glans or ventral adhesions are not broken down well prior to the incision, then the shaft may be denuded after excision of the foreskin. Most cosmetic problems can be managed conservatively with a satisfactory and functional outcome, but split-thickness skin grafting may be required if more than 50 percent of the shaft is denuded. Surgical techniques to minimize the occurrence of cosmetic problems are described in detail separately. (See "Procedures for neonatal circumcision").

Buried penis — Buried penis (ie, concealed penis, trapped penis, hidden penis) refers to a penis that is buried under cicatricial scar tissue that develops at the incision site [58]. It may occur if either too much or too little skin is removed. Treatment is usually surgical, but a medical approach using topical betamethasone and manual retraction has shown some success in a pilot trial [59].

Bleeding — The risk of severe bleeding is higher if there is an underlying coagulopathy; therefore, a family history of bleeding diathesis or neonatal petechiae should prompt further evaluation before the procedure is undertaken. The presence of anatomic abnormalities, including anomalous vessels, also increases the risk of an adverse outcome. (See "Treatment of hemophilia").

Infection — Wound infection infrequently occurs after circumcision [57]. It is usually mild and manifested by local inflammatory changes, which resolve with local treatment. However, ulceration, suppuration, or sepsis may occur and require systemic antibiotics and surgical debridement.

Meatal ulceration — Irritation of the external urethral meatus by wet diapers may cause meatal ulceration in the first few weeks after circumcision. Ulceration can lead to meatal stenosis. Meatotomy is indicated if meatal stenosis results in obstructive uropathy or recurrent pyelonephritis.

Sexual dissatisfaction — The prepuce contains specialized sensory mucosa that is removed during circumcision [60]. Some studies suggest that the end of the penis becomes less sensitive when the foreskin is removed and sexual sensation may be decreased [61]. However, most circumcised males do not describe psychological trauma or decreased sexual function or desire as a result of the procedure [4,13,14,62-66].

Other — Surgical excision of the foreskin is painful. Although pain control was not provided in the past, safe and effective methods of pain control exist and should be provided to all infants undergoing the procedure [18,67]. Interestingly, in 1860 when circumcision began to gain in popularity in the English speaking world, pain during circumcision was desirable. An article in Lancet stated "the operation, too, should not be performed under chloroform, so that the pain experienced may be associated with the habit [masturbation] we wish to eradicate" [68]. (See "Procedures for neonatal circumcision", section on Pain control).

OPINIONS OF ORGANIZATIONS AND GROUPS — Every segment of society has an opinion regarding circumcision. Several pediatric and urologic experts feel that circumcision should be advocated as a prophylactic public health measure [5,6,11,67,69-71], and there is increasing commentary from the pediatric literature suggesting that male circumcision may be an effective prophylactic intervention for disease prevention in the United States and other countries [72,73]. Small, but vocal, groups have proposed the theory that all men who are circumcised may be emotionally harmed, but are unable to recognize their feelings. Other groups oppose circumcision on a human rights basis, saying the infant is not allowed to decide whether or not he wants to be circumcised and the procedure constitutes genital mutilation [69]. Still others believe the procedure decreases sexual pleasure [61].

The international medical community has published several opinions about male circumcision in neonates:

* The Canadian Paediatric Society issued a clinical practice guideline which stated "The overall evidence of the benefits and harms of circumcision is so evenly balanced that it does not support recommending circumcision as a routine procedure for newborns" [19].

* The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) established a task force to evaluate the medical research, ethics, and other issues related to circumcision of the male infant and concluded that "existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision, but the data was not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants should be given accurate and unbiased information and be provided the opportunity to discuss this decision" [9]. Pain control should be provided. Although this statement was reaffirmed in 2005, the AAP is reviewing this position, given recent evidence of the protective effect of circumcision against HIV and other sexually transmitted infections.

* The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists supported the conclusions of the AAP discussed above [74].

In addition, as discussed above (see "HIV infection" above), the World Health Organization has recommended that male circumcision be considered as part of a comprehensive HIV prevention package in Africa and other countries with high HIV prevalence and low rates of male circumcision [46]. They stated that a human rights-based approach to promotion of male circumcision requires measures that ensure that the procedure be carried out safely, with informed consent, and without coercion or discrimination.

INFORMATION FOR PATIENTS — Educational materials on this topic are available for patients. (See "Patient information: Circumcision in male infants"). We encourage you to print or e-mail this topic review, or to refer parents to our public web site, UpToDate Inc., which includes this and other topics.

SUMMARY AND RECOMMENDATIONS

* Circumcision (removal of the male foreskin) is performed for religious, cultural, or medical reasons. The prevalence varies across the world. (See "Historical background" above and see "Prevalence" above).

* We recommend that all parents of newborn males be provided accurate, unbiased written information about circumcision (Grade 1C). This information should be in a language that they understand and they should have the opportunity to discuss this information with the operating practitioner prior to deciding whether or not to have their infant son circumcised. (See "Counseling" above).

* Benefits of circumcision include reduction in the rates of urinary tract infection, penile cancer, cervical cancer in partners, some sexually transmitted infections, penile dermatoses, and penile inflammation (meatitis, balanitis, phimosis, balanoposthitis), as well as easier hygiene. These benefits, which extend over a lifetime, need to be weighed against the potential risks of the circumcision procedure, which are often short-term, and in the context of the low incidence of urinary tract infections and penile cancer in uncircumcised men. (See "Benefits" above).

* In Africa, circumcision of adult men reduced the risk of acquiring HIV infection by 50 to 60 percent. (See "HIV infection" above).

* One of the more common complications of circumcision is an unsatisfactory cosmetic result (too little or too much skin removed). Other complications and side effects, which are uncommon, include procedure related bleeding or infection, and meatal ulceration. (See "Risks" above).

* Virtually all current policy statements from specialty societies and medical organizations recommend not performing neonatal circumcision as a routine procedure. (See "Opinions of organizations and groups" above).



REFERENCES

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6. Schoen, EJ. The status of circumcision of newborns. N Engl J Med 1990; 322:1308.
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18. Spach, DH, Stapleton, AE, Stamm, WE. Lack of circumcision increases the risk of urinary tract infection in young men. JAMA 1992; 267:679.
19. Neonatal circumcision revisited. Fetus and Newborn Committee, Canadian Paediatric Society. CMAJ 1996; 154:769.
20. To, T, Agha, M, Dick, PT, Feldman, W. Cohort study on circumcision of newborn boys and subsequent risk of urinary-tract infection. Lancet 1998; 352:1813.
21. Wiswell, TE, Enzenauer, RW, Holton, ME, et al. Declining frequency of circumcision: implications for changes in the absolute incidence and male to female sex ratio of urinary tract infections in early infancy. Pediatrics 1987; 79:338.
22. Zorc, JJ, Levine, DA, Platt, SL, et al. Clinical and demographic factors associated with urinary tract infection in young febrile infants. Pediatrics 2005; 116:644.
23. Craig, JC, Knight, JF, Sureshkumar, P, et al. Effect of circumcision on incidence of urinary tract infection in preschool boys. J Pediatr 1996; 128:23.
24. Wiswell, TE, Hachey, WE. Urinary tract infections and the uncircumcised state: an update. Clin Pediatr (Phila) 1993; 32:130.
25. Wiswell, TE, Miller, GM, Gelston, HM Jr, et al. Effect of circumcision status on periurethral bacterial flora during the first year of life. J Pediatr 1988; 113:442.
26. Pisacane, A, Graziano, L, Mazzarella, G, et al. Breast-feeding and urinary tract infection. J Pediatr 1992; 120:87.
27. Young, JL Jr, Percy, CL, Asire, AJ, Berg, JW. Cancer incidence and mortality in the United States, 1973-77. Natl Cancer Inst Monogr 1981; :1.
28. Agarwal, SS, Sehgal, A, Sardana, S, et al. Role of male behavior in cervical carcinogenesis among women with one lifetime sexual partner. Cancer 1993; 72:1666.
29. Aynaud, O, Piron, D, Bijaoui, G, Casanova, JM. Developmental factors of urethral human papillomavirus lesions: correlation with circumcision. BJU Int 1999; 84:57.
30. Ross, RK, Shimizu, H, Paganini-Hill, A, et al. Case-control studies of prostate cancer in blacks and whites in southern California. J Natl Cancer Inst 1987; 78:869.
31. Ewings, P, Bowie, C. A case-control study of cancer of the prostate in Somerset and east Devon. Br J Cancer 1996; 74:661.
32. Krueger, H, Osborn, L. Effects of hygiene among the uncircumcised. J Fam Pract 1986; 22:353.
33. Fergusson, DM, Lawton, JM, Shannon, FT. Neonatal circumcision and penile problems: an 8-year longitudinal study. Pediatrics 1988; 81:537.
34. Herzog, LW, Alvarez, SR. The frequency of foreskin problems in uncircumcised children. Am J Dis Child 1986; 140:254.
35. Kaplan, GW. Complications of circumcision. Urol Clin North Am 1983; 10:543.
36. Stenram, A, Malmfors, G, Okmian, L. Circumcision for phimosis--indications and results. Acta Paediatr Scand 1986; 75:321.
37. DeVries, CR, Miller, AK, Packer, MG. Reduction of paraphimosis with hyaluronidase. Urology 1996; 48:464.
38. Wright, JE. The treatment of childhood phimosis with topical steroid [published erratum appears in Aust N Z J Surg 1995 Sep;65(9):698]. Aust N Z J Surg 1994; 64:327.
39. Anderson, JE, Wilson, R, Doll, L, et al. Condom use and HIV risk behaviors among U.S. adults: data from a national survey. Fam Plann Perspect 1999; 31:24.
40. Donovan, B, Ross, MW. Preventing HIV: determinants of sexual behaviour. Lancet 2000; 355:1897.
41. Tapia-Aguirre, V, Arillo-Santillan, E, Allen, B, et al. Associations among condom use, sexual behavior, and knowledge about HIV/AIDS. A study of 13,293 public school students. Arch Med Res 2004; 35:334.
42. Krieger, JN, Bailey, RC, Opeya, J, et al.Adult male circumcision: results of a standardized procedure in Kisumu District, Kenya. BJU Int 2005; 96:1109.
43. Auvert, B, Taljaard, D, Lagarde, E, et al. Randomized, controlled intervention trial of male circumcision for reduction of HIV infection risk: the ANRS 1265 Trial. PLoS Med 2005; 2:e298.
44. Bailey, RC, Moses, S, Parker, CB, et al. Male circumcision for HIV prevention in young men in Kisumu, Kenya: a randomised controlled trial. Lancet 2007; 369:643.
45. Gray, RH, Kigozi, G, Serwadda, D, et al. Male circumcision for HIV prevention in men in Rakai, Uganda: a randomised trial. Lancet 2007; 369:657.
46. UNAIDS. Safe, voluntary, informed male circumcision and comprehensive HIV prevention programming. March 2008. (Accessed December 15, 2008).
47. Katz, IT, Wright, AA. Circumcision--a surgical strategy for HIV prevention in Africa. N Engl J Med 2008; 359:2412.
48. McCoombe, SG, Short, RV. Potential HIV-1 target cells in the human penis. AIDS 2006; 20:1491.
49. Donoval, BA, Landay, AL, Moses, S, et al. HIV-1 target cells in foreskins of African men with varying histories of sexually transmitted infections. Am J Clin Pathol 2006; 125:386.
50. Patterson, BK, Landay, A, Siegel, JN, et al. Susceptibility to human immunodeficiency virus-1 infection of human foreskin and cervical tissue grown in explant culture. Am J Pathol 2002; 161:867.
51. Auvert, B, Sobngwi-Tambekou, J, Cutler, E, et al. Effect of male circumcision on the prevalence of high-risk human papillomavirus in young men: results of a randomized controlled trial conducted in orange farm, South Africa. J Infect Dis 2009; 199:14.
52. Gray, RH, Kigozi, G, Serwadda, D, et al. The effects of male circumcision on female partners'genital tract symptoms and vaginal infections in a randomized trial in Rakai, Uganda. Am J Obstet Gynecol 2009; 200:42.
53. Kalcev, B. Circumcision and personal hygiene in school boys. Med Officer 1964; 122:171.
54. Wiswell, TE, Geschke, DW. Risks from circumcision during the first month of life compared with those for uncircumcised boys. Pediatrics 1989; 83:1011.
55. Gee, WF, Ansell, JS. Neonatal circumcision: a ten-year overview: with comparison of the Gomco clamp and the Plastibell device. Pediatrics 1976; 58:824.
56. Harkavy, KL. The circumcision debate. Pediatrics 1987; 79:649.
57. Williams, N, Kapila, L. Complications of circumcision. Br J Surg 1993; 80:1231.
58. Maizels, M, Zaontz, M, Donovan, J, et al. Surgical correction of the buried penis: description of a classification system and a technique to correct the disorder. J Urol 1986; 136:268.
59. Palmer, JS, Elder, JS, Palmer, LS. The use of betamethasone to manage the trapped penis following neonatal circumcision. J Urol 2005; 174:1577.
60. Taylor, JR, Lockwood, AP, Taylor, AJ. The prepuce: specialized mucosa of the penis and its loss to circumcision. Br J Urol 1996; 77:291.
61. Boyle, GJ, Bensley, GA. Adverse sexual and psychological effects of male infant circumcision. Psychol Rep 2001; 88:1105.
62. Schlossberger, NM, Turner, RA, Irwin, CE Jr. Early adolescent knowledge and attitudes about circumcision: methods and implications for research [published erratum appears in J Adolesc Health 1992 Sep;13(6):533]. J Adolesc Health 1992; 13:293.
63. Masters, WH, Johnson, VE. Human Sexual Response. Little, Brown and Company, Boston 1966.
64. Fink, KS, Carson, CC, DeVellis, RF. Adult circumcision outcomes study: effect on erectile function, penile sensitivity, sexual activity and satisfaction. J Urol 2002; 167:2113.
65. Collins, S, Upshaw, J, Rutchik, S, et al. Effects of circumcision on male sexual function: debunking a myth?. J Urol 2002; 167:2111.
66. Payne, K, Thaler, L, Kukkonen, T, et al. Sensation and sexual arousal in circumcised and uncircumcised men. J Sex Med 2007; 4:667.
67. Schoen, EJ, Wiswell, TE, Moses, S. Reply to Carole M. Lannon and the task force on circumcision. Pediatrics 2001; 108:211.
68. Johnson, A. On an injurious habit occasionally met with in infancy and early childhood. Lancet 1860; 1:344.
69. Poland, RL. The question of routine neonatal circumcision. N Engl J Med 1990; 322:1312.
70. Schoen, EJ, Wiswell, TE, Moses, S. New policy on circumcision--cause for concern. Pediatrics 2000; 105:620.
71. Weiss, GN. Prophylactic neonatal surgery and infectious diseases. Pediatr Infect Dis J 1997; 16:727.
72. Flynn, P, Havens, P, Brady, M, et al. Male circumcision for prevention of HIV and other sexually transmitted diseases. Pediatrics 2007; 119:821.
73. Dickerman, JD. Circumcision in the time of HIV: when is there enough evidence to revise the American Academy of Pediatrics'policy on circumcision?. Pediatrics 2007; 119:1006.
74. American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists. Circumcision. ACOG Committee Opinion #260, American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists, Washington, DC 2001.
75. Auvert, B, Sobngwi-Tambekou, J, Puren, A, et al. Effect of male circumcision on human papilloma virus, neisseria gonorrhoeae and trichomonas vaginalis infections in men: results from a randomized controlled trial (abstract). Presented at the XVII international AIDS conference. August 2008, Mexico City. available at AIDS 2008 Abstract - & AID=15881.
 
better as a baby than when it gets super infected and diseased putting the penis at risk of falling off.

then they have to circumsize u anyway as a cure/prevention of the fucked up gengrenous penis

Erm, 90% of European men are not circumcised, you are stating a complete fallacy. No pun intended.

Boys, young men and men can choose to be circumcised later in life if they wish, then it is done under a general anaethetic.

More info.

Circumcision - Introduction - NHS24 Health Library
 
* Benefits of circumcision include reduction in the rates of urinary tract infection, penile cancer, cervical cancer in partners, some sexually transmitted infections, penile dermatoses, and penile inflammation (meatitis, balanitis, phimosis, balanoposthitis), as well as easier hygiene. These benefits, which extend over a lifetime, need to be weighed against the potential risks of the circumcision procedure, which are often short-term, and in the context of the low incidence of urinary tract infections and penile cancer in uncircumcised men. (See "Benefits" above).

I posit that the percentage of reduction in the rates of penile cancer and other maladies are the same as the percentage of penile skin removed -- i.e. less skin, proportionally less risk of skin problems. There's no such thing as "penile cancer", the cancers that occur on the penis are the same that occur elsewhere on the body, and what is usually referred to as "penile cancer" is skin cancer. BTW, death rates for men from "penile cancer" are half of the death rates for men with breast cancer. When was the last time you heard of a dude with breast cancer?

BTW, the "locker room" excuse for cutting baby boys is shrinking as well. Since circ rates are down in the US from the high 90% range to the low 60% range, uncut babies will grow up with plenty of uncut peers, and their girlfriends will be more accustomed to seeing both types by the time today's neonate generation reaches the age of sexual activity.
 
It's only a matter of time. I'm obviously biased like everyone else here (both men and women), but it's fairly easy to see why it's a retarded practice. Some retardation you accept because it's familiar to you, and some you don't. Ultimately, it's all fucking retarded. Especially subz.
 
I posit that the percentage of reduction in the rates of penile cancer and other maladies are the same as the percentage of penile skin removed -- i.e. less skin, proportionally less risk of skin problems. There's no such thing as "penile cancer", the cancers that occur on the penis are the same that occur elsewhere on the body, and what is usually referred to as "penile cancer" is skin cancer. BTW, death rates for men from "penile cancer" are half of the death rates for men with breast cancer. When was the last time you heard of a dude with breast cancer?

BTW, the "locker room" excuse for cutting baby boys is shrinking as well. Since circ rates are down in the US from the high 90% range to the low 60% range, uncut babies will grow up with plenty of uncut peers, and their girlfriends will be more accustomed to seeing both types by the time today's neonate generation reaches the age of sexual activity.

You're kidding me right?
 
Cancer of the penis

Cancer of the penis is very rare.

In the UK, each year, about 400 men are diagnosed with the condition. It often starts on the foreskin, and to stop it spreading, circumcision is sometimes used.

The exact cause of cancer of the penis is unknown, but it may be related to general hygiene.

Penile cancer is less common in men who have been circumcised. This may be because, some men, who have not been circumcised, may find it difficult to pull back their foreskin enough to clean underneath it.

However, other factors, such as smoking, and the STI known as the human papilloma virus (HPV), are thought to be more significant in the development of penile cancer.

Sexually transmitted infection (STIs)

Some types of sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are more common in uncircumcised men than in men who have been circumcised.

Men who are not circumcised, may be less likely to notice the symptoms of STIs that cause warts or ulcers on the genitals, such as herpes or syphilis. Also, the symptoms of chlamydia can be less obvious, making it more likely for men to pass on the infection without realising.

However, infections such as penile warts and urethritis, are more common in circumcised men, and yeast infections, such as thrush, affect circumcised and uncircumcised men equally.

Therefore, the most reliable way to prevent the spread of sexually transmitted infections is to ensure that you practice safe sex. Always use a condom and, if you have a new partner, you should both get checked for any STIs before having sexual intercourse.
 
PREVALENCE — The United States is the only country in the developed world where the majority of male infants are circumcised for nonreligious reasons.



Does anyone know if newborns are circumcised?

If it is done in the UK, they wait till 8-12 weeks.

I now have a theory. I think that so many American men having their willies chopped off at such a young age has had a psychological effect. Sort of like the cats being declawed.

:)
 
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