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Tatyana said:
Cancer of the penis

Cancer of the penis is very rare.

In the UK, each year, about 400 men are diagnosed with the condition. It often starts on the foreskin, and to stop it spreading, circumcision is sometimes used.

The exact cause of cancer of the penis is unknown, but it may be related to general hygiene.

Penile cancer is less common in men who have been circumcised. This may be because, some men, who have not been circumcised, may find it difficult to pull back their foreskin enough to clean underneath it.

However, other factors, such as smoking, and the STI known as the human papilloma virus (HPV), are thought to be more significant in the development of penile cancer.

Sexually transmitted infection (STIs)

Some types of sexually transmitted infections (STIs) are more common in uncircumcised men than in men who have been circumcised.

Men who are not circumcised, may be less likely to notice the symptoms of STIs that cause warts or ulcers on the genitals, such as herpes or syphilis. Also, the symptoms of chlamydia can be less obvious, making it more likely for men to pass on the infection without realising.

However, infections such as penile warts and urethritis, are more common in circumcised men, and yeast infections, such as thrush, affect circumcised and uncircumcised men equally.

Therefore, the most reliable way to prevent the spread of sexually transmitted infections is to ensure that you practice safe sex. Always use a condom and, if you have a new partner, you should both get checked for any STIs before having sexual intercourse.
Click to expand...

thrush is oral candida...of course its going to affect both equally.
 
Tatyana said:
PREVALENCE — The United States is the only country in the developed world where the majority of male infants are circumcised for nonreligious reasons.



Does anyone know if newborns are circumcised?

If it is done in the UK, they wait till 8-12 weeks.

I now have a theory. I think that so many American men having their willies chopped off at such a young age has had a psychological effect. Sort of like the cats being declawed.

:)
Click to expand...

lol you're required to wait 12 hrs. Usually done within a week I think.
 
chris302001 said:
what's the earliest memory you have? like how old were you?
Click to expand...


It is unusual, but I have a memory from around 9 months of age.

Check out some of this research

Recent Medical Studies On Circumcision

Here are a few of the summaries

Circumcision Results in Significant Loss of Erogenous Tissue

A report published in the British Journal of Urology assessed the type and amount of tissue missing from the adult circumcised penis by examining adult foreskins obtained at autopsy. Investigators found that circumcision removes about one-half of the erogenous tissue on the penile shaft. The foreskin, according to the study, protects the head of the penis and is comprised of unique zones with several kinds of specialized nerves that are important to optimum sexual sensitivity.

Taylor, J. et al., "The Prepuce: Specialized Mucosa of the Penis and Its Loss to Circumcision," BJU 77 (1996): 291–295.


Early Adverse Experiences May Lead to Abnormal Brain Development and Behavior

Self-destructive behavior in current society promotes a search for psychobiological factors underlying this epidemic. The brain of the newborn infant is particularly vulnerability to early adverse experiences, leading to abnormal development and behavior.

Although several investigations have correlated newborn complications with abnormal adult behavior, our understanding of the underlying mechanisms remains rudimentary. Models of early experience, such as repetitive pain, sepsis, or maternal separation in rodents and other species have noted multiple alterations in the adult brain, correlated with specific behavioral types depending on the timing and nature of the adverse experience. The mechanisms mediating such changes in the newborn brain have remained largely unexplored. Maternal separation, sensory isolation (understimulation), and exposure to extreme or repetitive pain (overstimulation) may cause altered brain development.

(Circumcision is described as an intervention with long-term neurobehavioral effects.) These changes promote two distinct behavioral types characterized by increased anxiety, altered pain sensitivity, stress disorders, hyperactivity/attention deficit disorder, leading to impaired social skills and patterns of self-destructive behavior.

The clinical importance of these mechanisms lies in the prevention of early adverse experiences and effective treatment of newborn pain and stress.

Anand, K. and Scalzo, F., "Can Adverse Neonatal Experiences Alter Brain Development and Subsequent Behavior? Biol Neonate 77 (2000): 69-82.
 
Tatyana said:
It is unusual, but I have a memory from around 9 months of age.

Check out some of this research

Recent Medical Studies On Circumcision

Here are a few of the summaries

Circumcision Results in Significant Loss of Erogenous Tissue

A report published in the British Journal of Urology assessed the type and amount of tissue missing from the adult circumcised penis by examining adult foreskins obtained at autopsy. Investigators found that circumcision removes about one-half of the erogenous tissue on the penile shaft. The foreskin, according to the study, protects the head of the penis and is comprised of unique zones with several kinds of specialized nerves that are important to optimum sexual sensitivity.

Taylor, J. et al., "The Prepuce: Specialized Mucosa of the Penis and Its Loss to Circumcision," BJU 77 (1996): 291–295.


Early Adverse Experiences May Lead to Abnormal Brain Development and Behavior

Self-destructive behavior in current society promotes a search for psychobiological factors underlying this epidemic. The brain of the newborn infant is particularly vulnerability to early adverse experiences, leading to abnormal development and behavior.

Although several investigations have correlated newborn complications with abnormal adult behavior, our understanding of the underlying mechanisms remains rudimentary. Models of early experience, such as repetitive pain, sepsis, or maternal separation in rodents and other species have noted multiple alterations in the adult brain, correlated with specific behavioral types depending on the timing and nature of the adverse experience. The mechanisms mediating such changes in the newborn brain have remained largely unexplored. Maternal separation, sensory isolation (understimulation), and exposure to extreme or repetitive pain (overstimulation) may cause altered brain development.

(Circumcision is described as an intervention with long-term neurobehavioral effects.) These changes promote two distinct behavioral types characterized by increased anxiety, altered pain sensitivity, stress disorders, hyperactivity/attention deficit disorder, leading to impaired social skills and patterns of self-destructive behavior.

The clinical importance of these mechanisms lies in the prevention of early adverse experiences and effective treatment of newborn pain and stress.

Anand, K. and Scalzo, F., "Can Adverse Neonatal Experiences Alter Brain Development and Subsequent Behavior? Biol Neonate 77 (2000): 69-82.
Click to expand...

Check out research from a site called circumscision.org? I'm sure they're handpicked to reflect 1 side. You know I'm not that stupid.
 
chris302001 said:
Check out research from a site called circumscision.org? I'm sure they're handpicked to reflect 1 side. You know I'm not that stupid.
Click to expand...


It is an interesting site and heavily referenced.

Of course it is to promote not circumcising baby boys as the tendency to do so in the USA does not even appear to be questioned that much.

To be honest, it really isn't anything I had looked into that much as it just isn't all that common in Europe.

That there has to be an argument AGAINST circumcision is quite revealing in itself.

I think that the 'anti-circumcision' discussion is going to be very difficult for a lot of American men as they will have to come to terms with what has been done to their penis.

I find it quite barbaric that almost immediately after childbirth, a part of the penis is removed.

Jewish circumcision is eight days after birth.

Having an intact penis is more of the norm around the world.

You may want to check out this page.

Cultural Bias in American Medical Literature
Cultural Bias in American Medical Literature


Because the United States circumcises a majority of its male infants, circumcision is an American cultural value and is accepted as “normal.”

(Cultural bias on this issue may be more obvious when considering the practice of female circumcision in Africa. Americans regard that practice the way Europeans, who do not cut genitals of male or females, regard American circumcision—with horror.)

American circumcision advocates who are dissatisfied with the position of circumcision policy makers claim “anticircumcision bias,” but they support their claim only with their judgment that “substantial medical evidence” favors their view.1

It is significant that circumcision advocates have never offered any rationale or research to explain why someone would have an “anticircumcision bias” and why, for example, some circumcised men, Jews, and doctors who performed routine circumcisions (and stopped) would adopt a position opposing circumcision that is not evidence-based..........................







The rest is on the site, I won't cut and paste all of it here.
 
Tatyana said:
It is an interesting site and heavily referenced.

Of course it is to promote not circumcising baby boys as the tendency to do so in the USA does not even appear to be questioned that much.

To be honest, it really isn't anything I had looked into that much as it just isn't all that common in Europe.

That there has to be an argument AGAINST circumcision is quite revealing in itself.

I think that the 'anti-circumcision' discussion is going to be very difficult for a lot of American men as they will have to come to terms with what has been done to their penis.

I find it quite barbaric that almost immediately after childbirth, a part of the penis is removed.

Jewish circumcision is eight days after birth.

Having an intact penis is more of the norm around the world.

You may want to check out this page.

Cultural Bias in American Medical Literature
Cultural Bias in American Medical Literature


Because the United States circumcises a majority of its male infants, circumcision is an American cultural value and is accepted as “normal.”

(Cultural bias on this issue may be more obvious when considering the practice of female circumcision in Africa. Americans regard that practice the way Europeans, who do not cut genitals of male or females, regard American circumcision—with horror.)

American circumcision advocates who are dissatisfied with the position of circumcision policy makers claim “anticircumcision bias,” but they support their claim only with their judgment that “substantial medical evidence” favors their view.1

It is significant that circumcision advocates have never offered any rationale or research to explain why someone would have an “anticircumcision bias” and why, for example, some circumcised men, Jews, and doctors who performed routine circumcisions (and stopped) would adopt a position opposing circumcision that is not evidence-based..........................







The rest is on the site, I won't cut and paste all of it here.
Click to expand...

What difference does the timeline make?
 
Tatyana said:
It is unusual, but I have a memory from around 9 months of age.

Check out some of this research

Recent Medical Studies On Circumcision

Here are a few of the summaries

Circumcision Results in Significant Loss of Erogenous Tissue

A report published in the British Journal of Urology assessed the type and amount of tissue missing from the adult circumcised penis by examining adult foreskins obtained at autopsy. Investigators found that circumcision removes about one-half of the erogenous tissue on the penile shaft. The foreskin, according to the study, protects the head of the penis and is comprised of unique zones with several kinds of specialized nerves that are important to optimum sexual sensitivity.

Taylor, J. et al., "The Prepuce: Specialized Mucosa of the Penis and Its Loss to Circumcision," BJU 77 (1996): 291–295.


Early Adverse Experiences May Lead to Abnormal Brain Development and Behavior

Self-destructive behavior in current society promotes a search for psychobiological factors underlying this epidemic. The brain of the newborn infant is particularly vulnerability to early adverse experiences, leading to abnormal development and behavior.

Although several investigations have correlated newborn complications with abnormal adult behavior, our understanding of the underlying mechanisms remains rudimentary. Models of early experience, such as repetitive pain, sepsis, or maternal separation in rodents and other species have noted multiple alterations in the adult brain, correlated with specific behavioral types depending on the timing and nature of the adverse experience. The mechanisms mediating such changes in the newborn brain have remained largely unexplored. Maternal separation, sensory isolation (understimulation), and exposure to extreme or repetitive pain (overstimulation) may cause altered brain development.

(Circumcision is described as an intervention with long-term neurobehavioral effects.) These changes promote two distinct behavioral types characterized by increased anxiety, altered pain sensitivity, stress disorders, hyperactivity/attention deficit disorder, leading to impaired social skills and patterns of self-destructive behavior.

The clinical importance of these mechanisms lies in the prevention of early adverse experiences and effective treatment of newborn pain and stress.

Anand, K. and Scalzo, F., "Can Adverse Neonatal Experiences Alter Brain Development and Subsequent Behavior? Biol Neonate 77 (2000): 69-82.
Click to expand...

cool, i can blame my anxiety, adhd, shitty social skills, and immunity to pain on my pretty penis
 
Tatyana said:
Do you think parents are given all the info they need?
Click to expand...

If you had read the article I posted you'd already know the answer to that question. :)

No, I dont believe enough of them are. In fact, most do not recieve any counseling what so ever unless they bring it up. That's kind of the point. I believe it is important to offer the parents the information and give them that information if they are interested. If they were opposed from the get go, it would be settled.
 
Tatyana said:
Ok, here is another.

Seriously, why would you do that to a baby?

I don't get it, especially when it is unecessary, and possibly detrimental.
Click to expand...

lol, way to scour the interwebs to find one with a facial expression to fit your agenda. I dont care if the kid gets his tip snipped or not. It's completely a personal decision. I would never try to sway a pt one way or another (the way I might conduct myself on an internet chat board and in the clinic are two separate entities).

Personally, if it were my kid, I would opt for a circumcision. It's a personal preference. Just like people who get plastic surgery, take drugs to make their muscles bigger, or diet in order to display every ripple of every muscle in their body. Just because they think its attractive and do it does not mean the guy across the street (or pond) is going to feel the same way.

And I dont think I could have found a more benign and bloodless set of photos than the ones you posted.

You dont even have a penis! What do you care what Cindy and her husband perfer for their child?
 
chris302001 said:
what's the earliest memory you have? like how old were you?
Click to expand...

I have memories from when I was transitioning from crawling to walking. I don't know exactly when that was. I can also remember the day when I couldn't walk under the kitchen table without bumping my head anymore. And I remember my first Christmas (I was born in late July).
 
chris302001 said:
lol, way to scour the interwebs to find one with a facial expression to fit your agenda. I dont care if the kid gets his tip snipped or not. It's completely a personal decision. I would never try to sway a pt one way or another (the way I might conduct myself on an internet chat board and in the clinic are two separate entities).

Personally, if it were my kid, I would opt for a circumcision. It's a personal preference. Just like people who get plastic surgery, take drugs to make their muscles bigger, or diet in order to display every ripple of every muscle in their body. Just because they think its attractive and do it does not mean the guy across the street (or pond) is going to feel the same way.

And I dont think I could have found a more benign and bloodless set of photos than the ones you posted.

You dont even have a penis! What do you care what Cindy and her husband perfer for their child?
Click to expand...

They can do what they want. That isn't why I am posting.

I am just shocked at how common it is and that it may actually be detrimental for the child.

I had no idea of the procedure and that is was so common in the US.

I personally think it explains a few things.
 
Tatyana said:
They can do what they want. That isn't why I am posting.

I am just shocked at how common it is and that it may actually be detrimental for the child.

I had no idea of the procedure and that is was so common in the US.

I personally think it explains a few things.
Click to expand...

wow what a cultural difference.

here in america we brush our teeth and make our penises look pretty
 
Tatyana said:
Yuck.
Click to expand...
Okay, if she can show intraoperative and post circumcision penises I'm showing pictures of declawing!

importD8.jpg


importD5.jpg


catpicdeclawed.jpg


Maybe we all need to admit that any body, as it was originally designed by the penultimate architect of the universe, is perfect and shouldn't be fucked with unless it's a matter of life or death.
 
musclemom said:
Okay, if she can show intraoperative and post circumcision penises I'm showing pictures of declawing!

importD8.jpg


importD5.jpg


catpicdeclawed.jpg


Maybe we all need to admit that any body, as it was originally designed by the penultimate architect of the universe, is perfect and shouldn't be fucked with unless it's a matter of life or death.
Click to expand...

I worked for a vet. The pics are true. They do it like clipping the nails... but just go higher.
 
musclemom said:
Maybe we all need to admit that any body, as it was originally designed by the penultimate architect of the universe, is perfect and shouldn't be fucked with unless it's a matter of life or death.
Click to expand...

If I wasn't an Agnostic I'd say "Amen!"

But "penultimate"? What's so special about the next-to-last architect?
 
chris302001 said:
OMG YOU'RE RIGHT! LOOK AT THE AGONY ON THAT POOR KIDS FACE IN THAT LAST PIC.


lololololol
Click to expand...

From what I have been researching today, some of the babies don't scream and look as if they are going to sleep as the pain puts them into a semi-coma state, if I remember the term correctly, it was referred to as neurogenic shock.
 
Sub-Zero said:
wow what a cultural difference.

here in america we brush our teeth and make our penises look pretty
Click to expand...

LOL!

If the whole sensitivity thing is true for most men, what do you think about that?

You would never know the difference unless you go through a process of foreskin restoration.

What is more important, how it looks (which I assert is because you are just used to it and rarely see many intact penises), or how it feels?
 
Tatyana said:
LOL!

If the whole sensitivity thing is true for most men, what do you think about that?

You would never know the difference unless you go through a process of foreskin restoration.

What is more important, how it looks (which I assert is because you are just used to it and rarely see many intact penises), or how it feels?
Click to expand...

i actually heard from uncircumsized nasty friends that jerking off and peeling back the foreskin can be painful when younger untill it gets desensitiezed.

my sensitization is fine, i enjoy myself
 
Sub-Zero said:
i actually heard from uncircumsized nasty friends that jerking off and peeling back the foreskin can be painful when younger untill it gets desensitiezed.

my sensitization is fine, i enjoy myself
Click to expand...

When you're born the foreskin doesn't peel back at all, it's adhered to the glans the same way your fingernails adhere to your fingers. Stick a medical probe under your fingernail, now imagine that feeling on the end of your penis when you're a newborn. What a nice welcome to the world.

Anyway, the foreskin gradually loses that adhesion and becomes mobile. The age at which that happens is quite variable, sometime between preschool and puberty. I never saw my glans until I was around ten years old, around the time I started noticing that I was waking up with a boner every morning. Trying to force it back before it's ready would not feel good.
 
Sub-Zero said:
i actually heard from uncircumsized nasty friends that jerking off and peeling back the foreskin can be painful when younger untill it gets desensitiezed.

my sensitization is fine, i enjoy myself
Click to expand...


I am not sure why you refer to uncircumsized as nasty?

I find it really odd.

It isn't nasty, it is natural.

I find the appearance of circumsized willies to be a bit yuck, the edge on the glans just looks wrong, the skin on the penis looks too tight and painful.

This is the thing, you know the sensations you know, you don't know anything else, so you wouldn't realise if you had lost any sensation.

Men who are circumsized as adults report a massive decrease in sensitivity. 30% of them end up with sexual dysfunction.

Circumcision in the US was adopted from Victorian England when men were circumcised to prevent masturbation. Kellog, who promoted abstaining from sex, was one of the main advocates of circumcision in the US.

It is a social convention now, it has no other reason besides not wanting their little boy to be harassed in the locker room because he looks different.
 
Last edited:
Simple solutions:

Don't have cats then you don't have to fret over declawing.

Don't have kids and you won't have to fret over circumcision.

See simple and no need for debate. :biggrin:

Cheers,
Scotsman
 
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