Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below I cannot stand people that cannot take any form of criticism whatsoever, especially when its justified- because you ARE abrasive and there have been many instances where you would not back your claims up with studies. I suppose Nelson will call me a moron or idiot now, go ahead.....i'm expecting it.
Best Drink To Pack On Solid Mass
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Silent Method
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Well, I wouldn't say Fonz is the GREATEST genius to ever walk the earth, but you've got many good points in your list...
Also, there are people in this world that would pay to see a monkey take a shit on a stage. There are even more who would back that monkey if they got there cut of the cash. Don't flatter yourself because you have sold some of what you have written. (BTW, I am published too - does this make me more creadiblr than before?)
Also, there are people in this world that would pay to see a monkey take a shit on a stage. There are even more who would back that monkey if they got there cut of the cash. Don't flatter yourself because you have sold some of what you have written. (BTW, I am published too - does this make me more creadiblr than before?)
"And yet, I sell thousands of books and 99% of the people who purchase them feel they gained a lot from them. My training methods have been praised by some of the biggest and brightest people in the business. My expertise on supplements has been used by a successful supplement firm. Doctors, authors and coaches call me for advice on steroids. "
Your book is for beginners Nelson. Nothing more.
You're nowhere even close to cutting edge.
There are at least 30 people that I know off in the various boards I frequent that could write a book that would sweep yours literally of the floor.
So don't flatter yourself.
Selling a book does not equate to being intelligent. Just means you're good at marketing yourself.
Fonz
Your book is for beginners Nelson. Nothing more.
You're nowhere even close to cutting edge.
There are at least 30 people that I know off in the various boards I frequent that could write a book that would sweep yours literally of the floor.
So don't flatter yourself.
Selling a book does not equate to being intelligent. Just means you're good at marketing yourself.
Fonz
Nelson,
No one is bullying you or attacking you personally. It is just that they are in objection to a statement you made.
Personally, I am very sick of cut and paste statements. Not just yours, or his, or that person's or anyone else. I just do not like cut and paste type jobs unless they are there for supportment. I much rather prefer to hear the explanation in that person's own words. It would be very easy to just cut and paste the training routines and help I have given many people off this board as it is fairly common. But rather, I post it in my own words, not what it is, but also why I think it will work for them and why it works for me.
Take a look at where you are posting. Look at the people who read your postings. The typical person is young, early to mid 20's, with an abnormally high level of synthetic testosterone and anabolics coursing through their bloodstream. This is not exactly the type of person you can call stupid and not expect to see them get riled up over it. I am not saying you come right out and deliberately, purposefully call someone a stupid person (though I may be wrong as I don't read that many thread on the anabolic board), but I have read some postings in the past where you acknowledge that you come across as abrasive and hard at times. That much is very true. At times you really do come off as hard and a controversial know-it-all. You have a very classical Type A personality. When challenged, you tend to resort to a condescending, insulting defensive nature. You tend to take or twist everything so it becomes a personal attack on you. That can only work once or twice before everyone gets hip to your tactics. You really shouldn't do this. Rather, just understand that a "Debate" is actually a civil discussion where all sides offer statements, postings, references, etc.. to why they THINK their opinion or belief is just. When it comes to the human body, there is no science to it. Nothing is ever really "exact". What works for one may work for many, but not all. And what works for many, may not work for a few.
You have had just as many posts on here where people gave you props for your knowledge and ideas as many times as people have asked you to clarify something or doubted you. I have never read your book (sorry. I should... maybe you should send it to me and I will give an very detailed, honest unbiased objective of it ...
) But just the fact you actually HAVE a book out says a lot. I would love to get a book of my own published one day. You already have the product you can use to reach a good number of people. I am sure you have had many customers, but the potential to get more customers is fading really fast unless you realize the difference between "good" controversy and "bad" controversy. You are going to become your own worst enemy if you are not careful.
I just visited your website for the first time and I am not going to say anything bad about your physique. Unlike others who attack you based on your looks, I will say that I can honestly point out several people on this board that have used multiple cycles and still do not look like a bodybuilder. And I am not refering to Fonz. It is pretty obvious that Fonz MUST use anabolics or else his body would eat itself away with all that cardio he is going through.
You honestly have the tools to come close to reaching the national marketing level of Bill Philips in terms of "new ideas" and book sales (should you revamp yours for a more mainstream approach).
However you have to realize that you are currently destroying the very supporting foundation you should be building here.
The people here can only be what you make them to be. You can make them supporters or you can make them detractors. It is really up to you though. But sometimes, just take a minute to step away and count to ten before hitting the Submit button.
Just something to think about.
No one is bullying you or attacking you personally. It is just that they are in objection to a statement you made.
Personally, I am very sick of cut and paste statements. Not just yours, or his, or that person's or anyone else. I just do not like cut and paste type jobs unless they are there for supportment. I much rather prefer to hear the explanation in that person's own words. It would be very easy to just cut and paste the training routines and help I have given many people off this board as it is fairly common. But rather, I post it in my own words, not what it is, but also why I think it will work for them and why it works for me.
Take a look at where you are posting. Look at the people who read your postings. The typical person is young, early to mid 20's, with an abnormally high level of synthetic testosterone and anabolics coursing through their bloodstream. This is not exactly the type of person you can call stupid and not expect to see them get riled up over it. I am not saying you come right out and deliberately, purposefully call someone a stupid person (though I may be wrong as I don't read that many thread on the anabolic board), but I have read some postings in the past where you acknowledge that you come across as abrasive and hard at times. That much is very true. At times you really do come off as hard and a controversial know-it-all. You have a very classical Type A personality. When challenged, you tend to resort to a condescending, insulting defensive nature. You tend to take or twist everything so it becomes a personal attack on you. That can only work once or twice before everyone gets hip to your tactics. You really shouldn't do this. Rather, just understand that a "Debate" is actually a civil discussion where all sides offer statements, postings, references, etc.. to why they THINK their opinion or belief is just. When it comes to the human body, there is no science to it. Nothing is ever really "exact". What works for one may work for many, but not all. And what works for many, may not work for a few.
You have had just as many posts on here where people gave you props for your knowledge and ideas as many times as people have asked you to clarify something or doubted you. I have never read your book (sorry. I should... maybe you should send it to me and I will give an very detailed, honest unbiased objective of it ...
) But just the fact you actually HAVE a book out says a lot. I would love to get a book of my own published one day. You already have the product you can use to reach a good number of people. I am sure you have had many customers, but the potential to get more customers is fading really fast unless you realize the difference between "good" controversy and "bad" controversy. You are going to become your own worst enemy if you are not careful.I just visited your website for the first time and I am not going to say anything bad about your physique. Unlike others who attack you based on your looks, I will say that I can honestly point out several people on this board that have used multiple cycles and still do not look like a bodybuilder. And I am not refering to Fonz. It is pretty obvious that Fonz MUST use anabolics or else his body would eat itself away with all that cardio he is going through.
You honestly have the tools to come close to reaching the national marketing level of Bill Philips in terms of "new ideas" and book sales (should you revamp yours for a more mainstream approach).
However you have to realize that you are currently destroying the very supporting foundation you should be building here.
The people here can only be what you make them to be. You can make them supporters or you can make them detractors. It is really up to you though. But sometimes, just take a minute to step away and count to ten before hitting the Submit button.
Just something to think about.
arzhan said:
My comment is don't go for N-Large... I tried that and absolutely HATED it. it is crap in my opinion. I specifically was disappointed with the labeling. The internet label claimed one thing, the bottle label was completely different. Do a search under my name to see the thread.
Personally, I would get some ion whey isolate in bulk and use whole milk with it. Add some ginger capsules prior to taking it like Macro suggested in the past to help absorbtion.
Other than that, red meat, red meat, red meat.!!!
When bulking, keep in mind there are still "good" calories and "bad" calories.
J
Juice Authority
Guest
If Nelson actually took the time to speak with Fonz over the phone he would find that Fonz is not some arrogant Mr."Know it all", but rather a very nice and helpful guy. Fonz has helped countless people over the years here for fun and for free.
Well, I was through with tis thread, but this post was so articulate I had to respond.AAP said:Nelson,
No one is bullying you or attacking you personally. It is just that they are in objection to a statement you made.
Personally, I am very sick of cut and paste statements. Not just yours, or his, or that person's or anyone else. I just do not like cut and paste type jobs unless they are there for supportment. I much rather prefer to hear the explanation in that person's own words. It would be very easy to just cut and paste the training routines and help I have given many people off this board as it is fairly common. But rather, I post it in my own words, not what it is, but also why I think it will work for them and why it works for me.
Take a look at where you are posting. Look at the people who read your postings. The typical person is young, early to mid 20's, with an abnormally high level of synthetic testosterone and anabolics coursing through their bloodstream. This is not exactly the type of person you can call stupid and not expect to see them get riled up over it. I am not saying you come right out and deliberately, purposefully call someone a stupid person (though I may be wrong as I don't read that many thread on the anabolic board), but I have read some postings in the past where you acknowledge that you come across as abrasive and hard at times. That much is very true. At times you really do come off as hard and a controversial know-it-all. You have a very classical Type A personality. When challenged, you tend to resort to a condescending, insulting defensive nature. You tend to take or twist everything so it becomes a personal attack on you. That can only work once or twice before everyone gets hip to your tactics. You really shouldn't do this. Rather, just understand that a "Debate" is actually a civil discussion where all sides offer statements, postings, references, etc.. to why they THINK their opinion or belief is just. When it comes to the human body, there is no science to it. Nothing is ever really "exact". What works for one may work for many, but not all. And what works for many, may not work for a few.
You have had just as many posts on here where people gave you props for your knowledge and ideas as many times as people have asked you to clarify something or doubted you. I have never read your book (sorry. I should... maybe you should send it to me and I will give an very detailed, honest unbiased objective of it ...
I just visited your website for the first time and I am not going to say anything bad about your physique. Unlike others who attack you based on your looks, I will say that I can honestly point out several people on this board that have used multiple cycles and still do not look like a bodybuilder. And I am not refering to Fonz. It is pretty obvious that Fonz MUST use anabolics or else his body would eat itself away with all that cardio he is going through.
You honestly have the tools to come close to reaching the national marketing level of Bill Philips in terms of "new ideas" and book sales (should you revamp yours for a more mainstream approach).
However you have to realize that you are currently destroying the very supporting foundation you should be building here.
The people here can only be what you make them to be. You can make them supporters or you can make them detractors. It is really up to you though. But sometimes, just take a minute to step away and count to ten before hitting the Submit button.
Just something to think about.
I agree weth everything you say. The only contention would be with the perspective. And this is impossible for people to determine since I don't expect anyone to go through every post and analyze what transpired, so I can only give my perception.
I may make bold statements. I may even sound arrogent in doing so, But I NEVER -- NEVER attack another person, unless they have total disregard for any civility in the way they respond to me. Then, I admit, the gloves come off. I'm only human. And I'm in a precarious situation since many of my battles are against mods and most members are not going to get behind someone is at odds with the mods. There have been a few more ballsy individuals who have spoken up, and I thank them. But most will understandably sit back
and observe. And naturally, there will always be the guy who likes to get a cheap shot in when a man is down. It goes with the territory. Of course, if we all got together in person we'd probably get along great. But in this enviorment, it's all about reactions.
I believe you, like most members are using the thinking, "where there's smoke, there's fire." If most of Nelsons threads turn into flamefests, or if most threads involving Nelson are flamefests, it therefore must be Nelson's fault. But I maintain it is peoples reaction to me and the allowence -- dare I say the ENCOURAGEMENT of a couple of mods that allow it to be so. A good example is Juice's Clomid thread. All I said was that it would be great if we could discuss this without the negitivity, AND WITHOUT MAKING ANOTHER POST, there were already 4 or 5 antagonistic statements toward me. What does that tell you?
This all reminds me of one of my favorite quotes from Mark Twain. He said: "If you make people think you're making them think, they'll love you. But if you REALLY make them think, they'll dispise you."
Truer words have never been spoken and this board personifies the sentiment.
Case in point.
Fonz recently cut and pasted some literature from a supplement website, and presented it as an original idea. EVERYONE LOVED IT! Why? Because they didn't have to think. It was free useful information. Who cares if it's taken from somewher else? Give me my piece.
Now, I on the other hand, am not interested in regurgitating inforation or telling people what they want to hear. My gig is to challange conventional thought and to offer efficaceous alternatives. It comes with a price. To some, this is much appreciated. But to others, they despise it. They resent it. They reject it. Why? Because it forces them to think.
This brings us to the "prove it" mentality on these boards. Everyone wants to see studies. Well, a study is just a pre-existing notion. If all we did was accept pre-existing notions we'd all be using leeches and mercury to treat diseases. We must think progressively if we are to evolve. But most people like to stay right where they are. Oh sure, they want to THINK they're progressive. But they want their progress along with comfort. Sometimes you have to shatter the old to bring on the new.
As far as my failure to "explain" things. I think that's just a low blow that has become a cliche'. I explain plenty. But when explanations becomes demands, and then dares, and then antagonism, and then personal attacks, I refuse. And suddenly all the help I've provided is meanlingless. What have you done for me lately.
This is what upsets me. Not the fact that the attacks are against me. Who cares? What's psetting to me is when people use anger and hatred to diminish another human being. No one who read this thread can honestly say that Fonz's remarks were beneath the acceptable level for even the most uncooth individual. But the thread is about me. It's my fault. Citueside made claims that he knew weren't true. He even wrote to me to say that he did so because "others" did so. That would never hold up in a court of law, and Citrue is a lawyer. But he made that decision ayway. But it's about me. So it's okay.
Look, I'm no genius, but I know that everyone and anyone in the history of the world who had a new way of looking at things has been rejected by some people. Vince Gironda was loathed by a lot of people. But he was right. Take your pick -- Socrates, Pasteur, Van Gogh, Stravinsky...all rejected. They were the ones who thought differently. They were the "trouble makers." I wonder how long they'd last on the message boards.
I'm not in the catogory of these men. I'm just a writer who loves bodybuilding and loves sharing new ideas. But I'm also a guy who grew up in the 60's in Brooklyn New York. And where I come from, you don't take shit. You stick up for yourself. Somebody pushes, you push back harder. I'm sorry if it offends anyone. But that's me.
This ordeal has been draining. And it once again has made me realize that I'm spending too much time where I'm not wanted. Time for a little distance. I have other things I can do, need to do, should do. I just love bodybuilding so much and love it when someone gets a kick out of my work. It's addicting. But there are certain realities I must face.
Thank you for hanging in there, reading this post. But I know anything that is extracted from it will be short lived and within a day or two everyone fogets and goes back to seeking easy answers and searching for other people who will confirm their current beliefs. But that's the way of the world, isnt it?
Last edited:
Fukkenshredded
New member
Actually, Nelson, I think Silent Method might have posted too much at one time on this. However, if you read, in detail, his response to you in post #61, you will find much of what you requested, although the vast majority does not actually connect the dots one by one to actual growth. That being said, Silent Method has been pretty productive in his posts in this thread, and quite accomodating.
I understand what you are requesting--a chain of proven logic that shows relevance of glycogen replenishment with regard to ACTUAL muscle growth.
Fortunately I have just those references for you.
First off, a well known article:
Yaspelkis and Ivy. The effect of a carbohydrate-arginine supplement on postexercise carbohydrate metabolism. Int. J. Sports Nutri. 9:241-250, 1999.
This documents findings supporting the theory that protein and amino acids, when combined with a carbohydrate supplement can strongly stimulate insulin levels in a synergistic fashion, and as Silent Method declared, the ratio of carbohydrate to protein is extremely important to obtain this synergy. The optimal ratio should be 4:1 (four grams of carbohydrate to one gram of protein). At this ratio, the drink delivers the benefits of protein without negatively impacting the critical rehydration process.
Now, I know that you understand this and agree with it, but you do not see the relevance to actual growth. So, let's look further:
Kreider et al. Amino acid supplementation and exercise performance: An analysis of proposed ergogenic value. Sports Med. 16:190-209, 1993...
This familiar report details the evidence suggesting that insulin is a strong stimulus of protein intake by increasing amino acid transport into the muscle itself, i.e. ACTUAL GROWTH.
And lastly:
Rasmussen et al. An oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement enhances muscle protein anabolism after resistance exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 88(2):386-392, 2000.
Which will show what you already knew, which is that provision of said amino acids in and of itself increases anibolism.
If you can agree to the proposition that insulin doees have a difinitive impact on the rate of muscle growth, and you can agree with the evidences of these three studies, in particular the second, then it would seem to me that this would meet the requirements of your request, namely, references showing logic supporting actual muscle growth as a result of a high glycemic index carb/protien drink after workouts.
Now, there are a few more studies I have that give pretty good support to the idea that a drink is superior to a food in this context, but to present them now would be premature, and in any event, I think you must already know about the advantages of liquid vs. solid with regard to this subject.
BTW, I posted only the references, as you requested, sans the abstracts, which are readily findable online.
I understand what you are requesting--a chain of proven logic that shows relevance of glycogen replenishment with regard to ACTUAL muscle growth.
Fortunately I have just those references for you.
First off, a well known article:
Yaspelkis and Ivy. The effect of a carbohydrate-arginine supplement on postexercise carbohydrate metabolism. Int. J. Sports Nutri. 9:241-250, 1999.
This documents findings supporting the theory that protein and amino acids, when combined with a carbohydrate supplement can strongly stimulate insulin levels in a synergistic fashion, and as Silent Method declared, the ratio of carbohydrate to protein is extremely important to obtain this synergy. The optimal ratio should be 4:1 (four grams of carbohydrate to one gram of protein). At this ratio, the drink delivers the benefits of protein without negatively impacting the critical rehydration process.
Now, I know that you understand this and agree with it, but you do not see the relevance to actual growth. So, let's look further:
Kreider et al. Amino acid supplementation and exercise performance: An analysis of proposed ergogenic value. Sports Med. 16:190-209, 1993...
This familiar report details the evidence suggesting that insulin is a strong stimulus of protein intake by increasing amino acid transport into the muscle itself, i.e. ACTUAL GROWTH.
And lastly:
Rasmussen et al. An oral essential amino acid-carbohydrate supplement enhances muscle protein anabolism after resistance exercise. J. Appl. Physiol. 88(2):386-392, 2000.
Which will show what you already knew, which is that provision of said amino acids in and of itself increases anibolism.
If you can agree to the proposition that insulin doees have a difinitive impact on the rate of muscle growth, and you can agree with the evidences of these three studies, in particular the second, then it would seem to me that this would meet the requirements of your request, namely, references showing logic supporting actual muscle growth as a result of a high glycemic index carb/protien drink after workouts.
Now, there are a few more studies I have that give pretty good support to the idea that a drink is superior to a food in this context, but to present them now would be premature, and in any event, I think you must already know about the advantages of liquid vs. solid with regard to this subject.
BTW, I posted only the references, as you requested, sans the abstracts, which are readily findable online.
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