Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear arms

[FLASHMAN1]

Oh come on. A baseball bat, a hammer and a tire iron are not designed to kill. Baseball bats don't kill people. People with baseball bats kill people.

HOWEVER, I am more than willing to agree that if the outlaw of handguns resulted in a sudden surge in fatal baseball-bat related bludgeonings that we should go back to guns, which is a cleaner and more immediate death.

I disfavor access to anything DESIGNED to kill. Did your dad tell you to treat the tire iron and baseball bat with respect, because they were potentially fatal weapons? Buford Pusser (sp?), come home.

Arrest mom and dad because their crazy son broke into the gun case and shot himself? Come on!!!

Anyway, I can't continue to post on this thread and have a life. I'm signing off. I think this difference, as most of these arguments do, comes down,a s I said, to what you value more in this context -- the individual freedom to do what you want or the welfare of the society.

If a child can break into a gun case, then it's not safe enough and yes the parents should be held liable... I personally have a gun SAFE where I keep the majority of my guns, except for one that is in another SAFE underneath my bed. The large gun safe can not be opened without a digital combination AND a key... one or the other does not work.... The small security safe is one that can only be opened by a combination of touch buttons that are easily accessed in the dark, but you have to know the 6-pad combination to open it. It's set up like a keypad that you can easily feel in the dark, but you'd have to get the sequence right in order for it to open, so the odds of a child being able to open it are like a trillion to one. Bottom line, if your child can gain access to your gun, your safety measures aren't safe enough. period.

 

[musclebrains]

If a child can break into a gun case, then it's not safe enough and yes the parents should be held liable... I personally have a gun SAFE where I keep the majority of my guns, except for one that is in another SAFE underneath my bed. The large gun safe can not be opened without a digital combination AND a key... one or the other does not work.... The small security safe is one that can only be opened by a combination of touch buttons that are easily accessed in the dark, but you have to know the 6-pad combination to open it. It's set up like a keypad that you can easily feel in the dark, but you'd have to get the sequence right in order for it to open, so the odds of a child being able to open it are like a trillion to one. Bottom line, if your child can gain access to your gun, your safety measures aren't safe enough. period.

OK, well, I'm not breaking into your house.

 

[FLASHMAN1]

OK, well, I'm not breaking into your house.

LMAO, good thing.... odds are though, if you do, as the other asshole learned from my previous post, my dog would probably get to you before I did. If you can get past him, and you've come to rob/hurt me or my family, you're leaving in a bag....

In all seriousness bro, there are good arguments on both sides... However, the fact is, gun control laws won't accomplish jack shit without stiffer penalties being imposed on people that commit crimes with them.....

 

[FLASHMAN1]

Sorry, but even NY's experience demonstrates that stricter gun control and enforcement can have a huge effect on the incidence of gun deaths. Yes, the 500 (down from 1700) are by people who largely own guns illegally.

If you don't think that kind of decrease warrants strict gun control, we really just have to call our difference philosophical. You want the individual right to own a gun. I want guns outlawed for the good of society. I quite understand that is scary to people who feel they need a gun to protect themselves.

If I'm not mistaken though, those stiffer gun control laws were put into effect around the same time the death penalty was reinstated in NY... which if that's true, it proves my point further, stiffer penalties for gun related violence by criminals=less gun related crime BY CRIMINALS....

Though I understand that doesn't help the suicide problem, but as stated earlier, someone who TRULY wants to kill themself will find a way, gun or no gun...

P.S. As a general rule, I don't feel that I need a gun to protect myself. If confronted by someone unarmed that wants to take my wallet on the street, I'm certianly not going to blow thier head off. Even if the person were armed with a small knife, my first reaction would be to try to reason with or run from the person. If you have just a knife though, and you back me into a corner, you better be REAL good with that knife, or I'm gonna take it from you and fuck you up......bad..... My gun is my ABSOLUTE LAST LINE OF DEFENSE when I feel that either myself or someone in my family is in IMMEDIATE MORTAL DANGER....

 

[bigschweeler]

RyanH is one of those people for whom the question "if it happened to you or your family" apparently doesn't apply.

 

[FLASHMAN1]

RyanH is one of those people for whom the question "if it happened to you or your family" apparently doesn't apply.

To be perfectly honest with you, I think Ryan just likes to stir shit. That doesn't make him a bad person per se, I think he just likes to try to dazzle us with all his brilliant legal knowledge. I just think he likes a good argument...

 

[kaneman23]

RyanH

I know I haven't been a member on Elite very long but this post struck a nerve with me. I am a lifetime member of the NRA and concealed weapons permit holder in my state. Ashcroft is a hero for what he is doing and this should have been done several years ago. Tree hugging Liberals like yourself, are what is hurting this country and it's politics. Do you realize that the state of MD and CA have some of the highest rates of violent crime and yet have the strictest gun laws in the U.S.? You can pass all the gun laws in the world but you are still going to have violent crime and accidental deaths. There will never be a law passed that will prevent criminals from obtaining guns. I bet you believe that only the military and police should own guns. Do you trust your life to their response time? I sure as hell won't. Maybe you should move to a commie country, where you will be safe....

The day they take my guns is the day they pry them from my cold dead fingers.

 

[Train Harder]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear arm

Outlaw handguns altogether.

On the other hand, I think more aggressive gun control would help diminish domestic violence and suicide. Suicide continues to be the leading cause of gun death.

I wonder how much of a fight you would put up if this country outlawed the gay lifestyle. You feel that is a right and your always arguing for better this and that for gays, why should owning a gun not be considered a legitimate right. If we outlaw guns I say outlaw homosexuality. As far as the suicide is concerned if someone feels things are that bad better to use a gun to remove themselves rather than for removing innocent people. Also if your that bent on committing suicide a gun is only one choice so that is a weak argument on your part.

 

[huntmaster]

Those stories about blowing robbers' heads off as they come up the stairs-- or putting them under house arrest with your pistol --are entertaining but I wonder how often this really happens.

every month the NRA magazines feature a section called, "The Armed Citizen" which has a dozen or so stories of self defense by armed citizens.

I think you can read it online www.nra.org

 

[huntmaster]

I think he (RyanH) just likes to try to dazzle us with all his brilliant legal knowledge.

yeah, that's it