Ashcroft turns 2ND AMENDMENT on its head, argues for personal right to bear arms

[FLASHMAN1]

Alas, you are wrong, because many of the gun deaths are acts of passion whose committal makes the person a criminal -- not his behavior beforehand. Plus, the huge number of suicides are not committed by criminals.

I'm afraid my motto is the more, um, inclusive.

Ok, as far as the crimes of passion go, you're correct, but if it weren't a gun, it's be a knife, or a tire iron, or a hammer, or a baseball bat... Should we, based on that, outlaw everything that could possibly be used in a crime of passion??? Guess what stiffer penalties may make someone think twice. I know I wouldn't shoot a guy if I caught him in bed w/my old lady... If she's fucking around on me, she's certianly not worth me having to spend all kinds of money on a legal defense, that money is better spent on a good divorce lawyer...

On the subject of suicides, outlawing guns entirely will certianly not stop people who truly want to die from killing themselves, they WILL find a way... and if they are obtaining the gun to kill themselves with illegally, then yes, they are in fact criminals... If they are minors, and they use mommy's/daddy's gun, then I feel that the gun owner should be liable and they should be charged with involuntary manslaughter... Lets attack the root of the problem, irresponsibility, in that case, and in others, look into how criminals are obtaining guns and stop that at its source... or at least make an attempt to...

 

[musclebrains]

Ok, as far as the crimes of passion go, you're correct, but if it weren't a gun, it's be a knife, or a tire iron, or a hammer, or a baseball bat... Should we, based on that, outlaw everything that could possibly be used in a crime of passion??? Guess what stiffer penalties may make someone think twice. I know I wouldn't shoot a guy if I caught him in bed w/my old lady... If she's fucking around on me, she's certianly not worth me having to spend all kinds of money on a legal defense, that money is better spent on a good divorce lawyer...

On the subject of suicides, outlawing guns entirely will certianly not stop people who truly want to die from killing themselves, they WILL find a way... and if they are obtaining the gun to kill themselves with illegally, then yes, they are in fact criminals... If they are minors, and they use mommy's/daddy's gun, then I feel that the gun owner should be liable and they should be charged with involuntary manslaughter... Lets attack the root of the problem, irresponsibility, in that case, and in others, look into how criminals are obtaining guns and stop that at its source... or at least make an attempt to...

Oh come on. A baseball bat, a hammer and a tire iron are not designed to kill. Baseball bats don't kill people. People with baseball bats kill people.

HOWEVER, I am more than willing to agree that if the outlaw of handguns resulted in a sudden surge in fatal baseball-bat related bludgeonings that we should go back to guns, which is a cleaner and more immediate death.

I disfavor access to anything DESIGNED to kill. Did your dad tell you to treat the tire iron and baseball bat with respect, because they were potentially fatal weapons? Buford Pusser (sp?), come home.

Arrest mom and dad because their crazy son broke into the gun case and shot himself? Come on!!!

Anyway, I can't continue to post on this thread and have a life. I'm signing off. I think this difference, as most of these arguments do, comes down,a s I said, to what you value more in this context -- the individual freedom to do what you want or the welfare of the society.

 

[musclebrains]

Protect your children! HIde your valuables! Wiffle-bat death lurks around every corner!!!!

 

[Robert Jan]

the whole self defence argument is bullshit.

ever had a gun pointed at you and had the time to get yours out of some locker or closet drawer somewhere to defend yourself?

were you planning to use it to blast that guy who fucked up your life then? thats not self defence... thats planned violent revenge and against your own law.

the argument that you cant ban guns because youd have to ban anything that can kill someone is possibly even more stupid.

if you cant see how easy it is to distinguish between an object that has a functional purpose other than injuring or killing a person and one that has not you have no business even thinking about laws like this.


conclusion is guns should be banned and the us law that allows them is just a stupid sentiment of the part of the american mind that thinks theyre still fucking cowboys from some bad movie.

then the more guns is less crime shit..... id like to see some research on that.... its bullshit. the usa has a huge ass crime rate and is the only first world country that allows civilians to carry firearms.

 

[gymnpoppa]

Those stories about blowing robbers' heads off as they come up the stairs-- or putting them under house arrest with your pistol --are entertaining but I wonder how often this really happens.

Does anyone have a link to some statistics for this?

Personally, I don't see how if your firearm is put away properly, you can prevent a robbery in your house. It's like what you said musclebrains, you're most likely going to be ambushed, or surprised, and you're probably going to be faced with a situation that will not allow you to go to wherever you have stashed your firearm. So if someone as some stats on the success of this. I hear this argument all the time, but don't see how it can be successful.

I'm not against guns......I'm against dumbass, irrational efforts to expand the opportunities for them to fall into the hands of those who aren't responsible.

Even those in the military kill accidentally.....(Friendly fire)......and they're trained. So who's to say that any law-abiding citzen won't increase the chances of accidental shootings in the home?

 

[Robert Jan]

"GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE, PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE"

lmao. so you just give the madmen guns so its easier for them?


your a fucking cunt

 

[musclebrains]

the argument that you cant ban guns because youd have to ban anything that can kill someone is possibly even more stupid.

if you cant see how easy it is to distinguish between an object that has a functional purpose other than injuring or killing a person and one that has not you have no business even thinking about laws like this.

Thank you.


Ceramic duck banks don't kill people. People with ceramic duck banks bludgeon people to death. Ban the duck bank!!!

 

[KA-BAR]

Yo. NObody's saying gun control will eliminate gun crime. We're wondering if it won't reduce it substantially.

All you have to do is look at the other countries that have taken away guns. Austaila, Uk, and Canada just as manny said. The crime has skyrocketed! That God for the NRA! Actually the NRA just slowed the process down. I think Eventually they will make it mandatory to register all guns and if they are not registered it will be felonly. Then after they are all registered they will come take them or try to. After that there goes the rest of the constitution and in comes the new world order.

 

[musclebrains]

Teh People's Republic of China outlawed handguns and now there's a huge upturn in robberies in which victims are stomped to death.

 

[musclebrains]

All you have to do is look at the other countries that have taken away guns. Austaila, Uk, and Canada just as manny said. The crime has skyrocketed! That God for the NRA! Actually the NRA just slowed the process down. I think Eventually they will make it mandatory to register all guns and if they are not registered it will be felonly. Then after they are all registered they will come take them or try to. After that there goes the rest of the constitution and in comes the new world order.

Huh? The entire UK had barely 70 gun murders 1999-2000. That compares to just under 8,000 in the US for the same period (with 4.5 times the population, so go ahead and multiply).

Australia? Where'd you get your info? Try again. The table below won't line up but you can look at the totals, how they decrease and how incredibly small the number is compared to the US:

Australia Gun Deaths - Totals

1988
1989
1990
1991
1992
1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
1998

Accident
30
19
30
29
24
18
20
15
30
19
21

Suicide
521
451
488
510
490
435
420
388
382
330
234

Assault
124
80
79
84
96
64
79
67
104
79
57

Legal Int.
4
7
4
6
14
3
7
6
0
7
7

Unknown
17
15
15
5
7
6
0
3
5
2
8

Totals
696
572
617
634
631
526
526
479
521
437
327


We are talking, in America, the kind of violent gun culture that exists nowhere else in the world.