21yr old from my gym...DEAD!

[Enigmaxxx7]

Now that the kid is dead, the father wants to investigate. Typical. Before that I'm sure the father was walking chest out saying to himself "damn my boy looks good".


Sometimes you pay to play. I see guys that are juicing large 365 days a year. They are huge and ripped......and stupid. They'll never make it to 50.

 

[40butpumpin]

Am I missing something? One post said that this kid died from an embolus caused by synthol which traveled to his heart, not steroids. The kid probably injected a vein. Remember Milos Sarcev almost bought the farm due to the same thing. I feel regret for the loss of this young man, please let this be a warning to everyone who uses synthol to be extra careful. It is also possible to hit a vein spot injecting steroids, so please take great care spot injecting as well.

I agree. I'm 42 and have had an "enlarged heart" since my early 20's. So please don't start the enlarged heart hysteria. You don't die from an enlarged heart. Your heart can enlarge for numerous reasons and one of them is excessive workload such as training. If the function of the heart is compromised due to the condition this is another stroy, however, this is invariably due to a deseased heart as opposed to an enlarged heart. Please, no debates, I've talked to MD's and researched this to death. I'm as healthy as can be and living a normal life with an enlarged heart and plan on living a lot longer. Peace.

 

[Greek Freak]

Maybe the kid had other problems. Maybe the press will sensationalize it. But blame goes elsewhere, and we need only to look around us to find it.

I've been involved in this sport a long time and I've been very vocal in the benefits of AS and the disgrace of their criminalization. But I can say with all certainty that within the last five or six years the use of AS has become an epidemic -- not so much in the amount of people taking them, but the amounts which people are taking. Dare I say, it's drug addiction, plain and simple. And many of the people reading this post are in that catagory.

The tragic irony here is that we all want to be accepted for our choices. We feel that it's a civil right to do what we wish with our bodies and the stigma of steroids is a hysterical fear tactic perpetuated by a feckless and uniformed media. But in reality, if we are ever to be accepted, or in the least, tolerated, our argument must be sane and cogent. We must prove the detractors wrong. But every day, we prove them right.

The quest for more and more size has become a crazed obsession. People distort their bodies into freakish hulls. Women morph their very gender. Children die.

Shakesphere said: "Our fate is not in the stars, but in ourselves." The answer is obvious but the path toward redemtion is clutterd with confusion, and rationalizations, and bravado, and fear. No one wants to admt the bell tolls for thee.

There's an old saying: "The world will only cry with you for only one day." So today on this board we mourn the loss of a life yet begun. Yet, I have no doubt, tomorrow the topics will be insulin, DNP, Bromo and mixing up cow medicine in your sink and injecting it into your bloodstream. Then before long, another post: Friend of mine, ripped and huge...dead. And again we'll cry. And again, deny.
.

Amazing post.

As for when I said the kid was not a monster, I was just basing it on most 21 year olds I know around that height/wt. A couple months ago I met John Hnayshak(sp) who does the animal ads and was training for the masters olmplia, he was in rediculous shape and 200 lbs. I shouldnt have even commented on that though because reguardless the kid is dead. It is always so sad to see them go young and hopefully he can be used as an example to help save others lives.

 

[e-man2]

Oversized heart due to roids

Can somoene explain how do you get an oversized heart from roids and which ones??
I know GH will cause it but don't know about roids.

Was the guy taking GH??

 

[Zyglamail]

I've been involved in this sport a long time and I've been very vocal in the benefits of AS and the disgrace of their criminalization. But I can say with all certainty that within the last five or six years the use of AS has become an epidemic -- not so much in the amount of people taking them, but the amounts which people are taking. Dare I say, it's drug addiction, plain and simple. And many of the people reading this post are in that catagory.

Nelson, you have brought this point up many times in the past however you leave the reader nothing to do but speculate on the specifics. For example you claim many here use too large of doses for too long but never elaborate. The doses taken here range from one extreme to the other and therefor the reader can only guess at the wisdom you are trying to impart. Now, I realize you may not want to give details because they may be contained in your book but at the same time it gets pretty old to see the same old line, especially if your not going to offer any information. I for honestly look forward to reading your book, but my attempts so far have been unsuccessful.

 

[liftsiron]

Nelson, you have brought this point up many times in the past however you leave the reader nothing to do but speculate on the specifics. For example you claim many here use too large of doses for too long but never elaborate. The doses taken here range from one extreme to the other and therefor the reader can only guess at the wisdom you are trying to impart. Now, I realize you may not want to give details because they may be contained in your book but at the same time it gets pretty old to see the same old line, especially if your not going to offer any information. I for honestly look forward to reading your book, but my attempts so far have been unsuccessful.

I read the book it was an interesting read, unfortunatly I didn't learn anything that I wasn't already aware of, it would be a good read for beginners. Anabolics and exercise 101.

 

[Zyglamail]

I read the book it was an interesting read, unfortunatly I didn't learn anything that I wasn't already aware of, it would be a good read for beginners. Anabolics and exercise 101.

Thanks for the comments. Im not real interested so much on the level at which the book communicates with the reader but more the perspectives that different individuals bring to the table.

Also, I am sorry to get off topic on this thread for death is a tragedy.

 

[JayBro]

Re: Oversized heart due to roids

Can somoene explain how do you get an oversized heart from roids and which ones??
I know GH will cause it but don't know about roids.

Was the guy taking GH??

The heart is a muscle and steroids support muscle growth so activities that raise your heart rate, or supplements even, could have contribute to your heart actually getting bigger while on cycle.
This is just my opinion.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Zyg: I didn't feel this was the time or place to start espousing my personal opinion of recommended dosages. I touch upon that in the book and elaborate more deeply in an upcoming book , but I'm not trying to hawk sales, it's just a complicated subject and deserves more than a casual mention.

In regards to the post, I was mearly trying to bring things "down to earth" so to speak, I'm a writer, and I felt to need to write about what happened. I'm sorry if you found it "old."

In an effort to be fair, I will address a few things, now that it's been brought up.

Some of the advice I see on this board is, in my opinion, beyond irreponsible. But everyone has a right to do what they want and it isn't my job to stop them. People get defensive. They get antagonistic. I've even been accused of being "jeoulous of not being 260 pounds, when I can't imagine why ANYONE would WANT to be 260 pounds! But that's me.

Incidentally, I also trust that when liftsiron says the book is book for beginners I presume he means it will help beginners -- not that the information is basic and mainstream. I can't tell you how many publishers said it was too radical because it isn't what "the establishment" says. My guess is that lifer is very advanced.

Here are a few quick points about drug use. Take it for what it's worth.

Recommending anything more than 400mgs a week to a first timer: Dumb.

Anyone taking more than 1500mgs a week: Dumb.

Staying on for more than 8 weeks: Dumb.

Using veterinarian products: Dumb.

Using Anadrol or Halo: Dumb

Using Clomid for weeks: Dumb.

Using Insulin: Dumb.

Using Insulin with GH: Very Dumb.

Bridging. Dumb

Using Cytomel, Clenbuteral, RU486, Dopamine, Synthol, Nubain, Diuetics, or DNP: Insane.

Now I'm sure I've pissed off half the board with this. But fuck it. That's the way I see it. And I've seen a lot.

If this hurts the sale of my book, so be it. If it makes one person think twice about doing something stupid, it's more than worth it.



.

 

[Citruscide]

Zyg: I didn't feel this was the time or place to start espousing my personal opinion of recommended dosages. I touch upon that in the book and elaborate more deeply in an upcoming book , but I'm not trying to hawk sales, it's just a complicated subject and deserves more than a casual mention.

In regards to the post, I was mearly trying to bring things "down to earth" so to speak, I'm a writer, and I felt to need to write about what happened. I'm sorry if you found it "old."

In an effort to be fair, I will address a few things, now that it's been brought up.

Some of the advice I see on this board is, in my opinion, beyond irreponsible. But everyone has a right to do what they want and it isn't my job to stop them. People get defensive. They get antagonistic. I've even been accused of being "jeoulous of not being 260 pounds, when I can't imagine why ANYONE would WANT to be 260 pounds! But that's me.

Incidentally, I also trust that when liftsiron says the book is book for beginners I presume he means it will help beginners -- not that the information is basic and mainstream. I can't tell you how many publishers said it was too radical because it isn't what "the establishment" says. My guess is that lifer is very advanced.

Here are a few quick points about drug use. Take it for what it's worth.

Recommending anything more than 400mgs a week to a first timer: Dumb.

Anyone taking more than 1500mgs a week: Dumb.

Staying on for more than 8 weeks: Dumb.

Using veterinarian products: Dumb.

Using Anadrol or Halo: Dumb

Using Clomid for weeks: Dumb.

Using Insulin: Dumb.

Using Insulin with GH: Very Dumb.

Bridging. Dumb

Using Cytomel, Clenbuteral, RU486, Dopamine, Synthol, Nubain, Diuetics, or DNP: Insane.

Now I'm sure I've pissed off half the board with this. But fuck it. That's the way I see it. And I've seen a lot.

If this hurts the sale of my book, so be it. If it makes one person think twice about doing something stupid, it's more than worth it.



.

Sweet, I was looking for an argument to use against the defendant on a patent lawsuit I'm currently working on... I think you have given me an idea.

"Your honor... the defendant's use of my clients patent is 'Dumb'" -- The Plaintiff rests.

Nice factual backup... ass.

C-ditty