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Silverback316
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Let's get some more opinions on this guys. Any mad scientists come on here by any chance?
RTD's legit or not?
- Thread starter Silverback316
- Start date
Any RTD's are excellent substitutes or additions to a meal (snacks, whatever). The best time to consume whey protien would be right after a workout or first thing in the morning since it is absorbed rapidly. A blend would be best throughout the day or right before bed because of it's slower or "timed release" absorption rate. Those nitro tech RTD's are a tad ridiculous, they need to just make the container bigger and put more water in it. Who wants to drink whey clumps when they get to the end ? So the verdict ? RTD's are good enough for me, I'll continue to use them as a protien source when on the go or in a hurry.
- RR
- RR
Silverback316
New member
I don't believe meat contains whey, but I could be wrong. Here is a link to the story about the RTD's with whey in them. http ://www.ast-ss.com/dev/qa_search/full_text.asp?ID=1761Primal X said:
Whey is not "destroyed" when heating. If this were true you would have to eat all your meat raw.
Now AST is a very reputable company so there has to be some truth to these statements regarding RTD's or at least certain ones.
Silverback316
New member
bump
THeMaCHinE
New member
T: What's the deal with the ready-to-drink protein drinks? High quality or low? Are they any better than Slimfast?
PI: They're slightly better than Slimfast.
T: Why are they bad?
PI: You have to literally cook them. The FDA requires that you pasteurize ready-to-drink products, and you end up just destroying these glycomacropeptides — they're gone. What you end up drinking is just a basic, bare minimum protein supplement, a very expensive one at that.
Because these products use so much water, and consequently weigh a lot, the shipping costs end up being considerable. That's primarily why they cost so much. You're paying dearly to have someone shake your shake for you. And, unfortunately, the technology that exists today has not improved since they first started doing RTDs [ready to drinks] and so you get a basic protein supplement, nothing exotic, nothing interesting, and usually rotten tasting.
-------------------------------
T: What about the time-release proteins that are starting to come out?
PI: Well, I'm not the world's greatest protein scientist, and protein catabolism/anabolism isn't my main area, but initially, a lot of lay people, or bodybuilding-type self-professed scientists, thought that providing a steady state of amino acids through an IV drip all day long would be great! You'd have the ultimate protein synthesis going on, and catabolism wouldn't exist, and you'd slowly evolve into this super hero thing.
But in reality, your body's real smart, and it down-regulates — it beats you to the punch — and a steady stream of amino acids doesn't work after a few hours. Instead, it looks like pulse feeding — giving the body a shot of protein and amino acids every few hours is really the best way to go. Hell, I really shouldn't even say that because I'm shooting myself in the foot. A lot of companies want us to develop these time-released proteins for them, and we stand to make some money. So, it's kinda' dumb of me to say that they don't work. But, what the hell.
http://www.testosterone.net/articles/207prot2.html
PI: They're slightly better than Slimfast.
T: Why are they bad?
PI: You have to literally cook them. The FDA requires that you pasteurize ready-to-drink products, and you end up just destroying these glycomacropeptides — they're gone. What you end up drinking is just a basic, bare minimum protein supplement, a very expensive one at that.
Because these products use so much water, and consequently weigh a lot, the shipping costs end up being considerable. That's primarily why they cost so much. You're paying dearly to have someone shake your shake for you. And, unfortunately, the technology that exists today has not improved since they first started doing RTDs [ready to drinks] and so you get a basic protein supplement, nothing exotic, nothing interesting, and usually rotten tasting.
-------------------------------
T: What about the time-release proteins that are starting to come out?
PI: Well, I'm not the world's greatest protein scientist, and protein catabolism/anabolism isn't my main area, but initially, a lot of lay people, or bodybuilding-type self-professed scientists, thought that providing a steady state of amino acids through an IV drip all day long would be great! You'd have the ultimate protein synthesis going on, and catabolism wouldn't exist, and you'd slowly evolve into this super hero thing.
But in reality, your body's real smart, and it down-regulates — it beats you to the punch — and a steady stream of amino acids doesn't work after a few hours. Instead, it looks like pulse feeding — giving the body a shot of protein and amino acids every few hours is really the best way to go. Hell, I really shouldn't even say that because I'm shooting myself in the foot. A lot of companies want us to develop these time-released proteins for them, and we stand to make some money. So, it's kinda' dumb of me to say that they don't work. But, what the hell.
http://www.testosterone.net/articles/207prot2.html
THeMaCHinE
New member
Pasturization (which is required by the FDA of all RTDs ((ready to drink)))kills nutrients and causes milk to rot and it rots anything in your stomach. Do not drink milk with anything!
http://www.kelownahealth.com/properfood.htm
Pasteurization destroys all bacteria (good and bad), it destroys enzymes and physically alters milk protein.
http://www.prairieroseranch.com/realmilk.html
------------------
More info on pulse feeding that indicates time-release formulas are useless:
Protein Pulse Feeding May Revolutionize the Way We Plan Our Meals
by Bryan Haycock MS, CSCS
When it comes to protein one thing is certain, bodybuilders eat a lot of it. You may have your preferences as to brand or even what source (i.e. egg, whey, casein, soy, meat, goldfish, etc.), but you will be hard pressed to find a bodybuilder or fitness competitor who isn’t constantly thinking about where his/her next protein meal is coming from.
I have had many discussions about optimal amounts of protein with my good friend Lyle McDonald. These discussions have led us to believe that despite all our efforts to alter the amount of protein we retain, few if any practices currently being employed by bodybuilders actually work. These discussions, along with some recent research, have led me to some conclusions that may surprise you.
A couple of recent studies really got me thinking. A researcher by the name of Marie Arnal out of France had the idea that perhaps you could increase 24-hour protein anabolism by using a diet that was both "high" and "low" in protein. You may ask, "How can a diet be both high and low in protein?" By a method called protein pulse feeding. Simply put, you consume about 80% of your daily protein at one sitting, the rest of the day you keep protein intake fairly low (for bodybuilding standards anyway).
Here is what she and her colleagues found. In "elderly women", nitrogen balance was more positive with the pulse feeding than with protein spread out (54 ± 7 compared with 27 ± 6 mg N/kg FFM/day).(1) Protein turnover rates were also higher with the pulse than with the spread diet (5.58 ± 0.22 compared with 4.98 ± 0.17 g protein/kg FFM/day), mainly because of higher protein synthesis in the pulse group (4.48 ± 0.19 g protein/kg FFM/day) than in the spread group (3.75 ± 0.19 g protein/kg FFM/day).
Ok, Ok, many of you are probably thinking that you have nothing in common with elderly women. Just bear with me for a moment. They did the same experiment with 26-year-old women. (2) Surprisingly they found very little effect of protein pulse feeding on nitrogen balance in these young subjects. Keep this in mind…
Finally, they found one other effect of protein pulse feeding. Protein turnover modifications induced by the protein pulse pattern for 14 days persisted at least 1 day after both young and old subjects had stopped the diet. (3) In other words, their bodies became more anabolically responsive to protein meals after utilizing a protein pulse-feeding pattern and this continued for at least a day when normal feeding was resumed.
So in summary, research has shown that in individuals who are aging, protein pulse feeding (i.e. eating most of your daily protein intake at one meal) may lead to greater gains in muscle mass over time by increasing the anabolic effect of a high protein meal, and decreasing catabolism thereafter if protein intake is reduced for the remainder of the day.
Now here is where you might be surprised, when you step back and take a look at what they found, you see that eating protein all day in many small meals, or eating a ton of protein in one big meal, made no difference in nitrogen retention in young women. This makes perfect sense with respect to how the body’s systems have evolved to ensure survival (i.e. by altering metabolism according to nutrient intake). If you eat low protein, your body conserves protein. If you eat protein all the time your body breaks it down, oxidizes it and spits it out. It could very well be that all the fuss bodybuilders make (including myself) about where and when their next protein meal is coming from might be for nothing. It could very well be that it is more anabolic to eat large amounts of protein after training (~80% of daily total) and keep protein around 10-12% of meals there after. Believe it or not, there is other research supporting this hypothesis indirectly. Up until now there has been no use in bringing it up with most bodybuilders because of the "tradition" of eating protein in a constant fashion all throughout the day. In time we will see more research on this issue and perhaps Protein Pulse Feeding will become a viable alternative to grazing on meat all day. I can already hear the nay sayers….
References
1: Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Houlier ML, Morin L, Verdier E, Ritz P, Antoine JM, Prugnaud J, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein pulse feeding improves protein retention in elderly women. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1999 Jun;69(6):1202-8.
2: Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Houlier ML, Morin L, Verdier E, Ritz P, Antoine JM, Prugnaud J, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein feeding pattern does not affect protein retention in young women. Journal of Nutrition. 2000 Jul;130(7):1700-4.
3: Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Gachon P, Genest M, Bayle G, Grizard J, Arnal M, Antoine JM, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein turnover modifications induced by the protein feeding pattern still persist after the end of the diets. American Journal of Physiology Endocrinology and Metabolism. 2000 May;278(5):E902-9.
http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/protein-pulse-feeding.htm
http://www.kelownahealth.com/properfood.htm
Pasteurization destroys all bacteria (good and bad), it destroys enzymes and physically alters milk protein.
http://www.prairieroseranch.com/realmilk.html
------------------
More info on pulse feeding that indicates time-release formulas are useless:
Protein Pulse Feeding May Revolutionize the Way We Plan Our Meals
by Bryan Haycock MS, CSCS
When it comes to protein one thing is certain, bodybuilders eat a lot of it. You may have your preferences as to brand or even what source (i.e. egg, whey, casein, soy, meat, goldfish, etc.), but you will be hard pressed to find a bodybuilder or fitness competitor who isn’t constantly thinking about where his/her next protein meal is coming from.
I have had many discussions about optimal amounts of protein with my good friend Lyle McDonald. These discussions have led us to believe that despite all our efforts to alter the amount of protein we retain, few if any practices currently being employed by bodybuilders actually work. These discussions, along with some recent research, have led me to some conclusions that may surprise you.
A couple of recent studies really got me thinking. A researcher by the name of Marie Arnal out of France had the idea that perhaps you could increase 24-hour protein anabolism by using a diet that was both "high" and "low" in protein. You may ask, "How can a diet be both high and low in protein?" By a method called protein pulse feeding. Simply put, you consume about 80% of your daily protein at one sitting, the rest of the day you keep protein intake fairly low (for bodybuilding standards anyway).
Here is what she and her colleagues found. In "elderly women", nitrogen balance was more positive with the pulse feeding than with protein spread out (54 ± 7 compared with 27 ± 6 mg N/kg FFM/day).(1) Protein turnover rates were also higher with the pulse than with the spread diet (5.58 ± 0.22 compared with 4.98 ± 0.17 g protein/kg FFM/day), mainly because of higher protein synthesis in the pulse group (4.48 ± 0.19 g protein/kg FFM/day) than in the spread group (3.75 ± 0.19 g protein/kg FFM/day).
Ok, Ok, many of you are probably thinking that you have nothing in common with elderly women. Just bear with me for a moment. They did the same experiment with 26-year-old women. (2) Surprisingly they found very little effect of protein pulse feeding on nitrogen balance in these young subjects. Keep this in mind…
Finally, they found one other effect of protein pulse feeding. Protein turnover modifications induced by the protein pulse pattern for 14 days persisted at least 1 day after both young and old subjects had stopped the diet. (3) In other words, their bodies became more anabolically responsive to protein meals after utilizing a protein pulse-feeding pattern and this continued for at least a day when normal feeding was resumed.
So in summary, research has shown that in individuals who are aging, protein pulse feeding (i.e. eating most of your daily protein intake at one meal) may lead to greater gains in muscle mass over time by increasing the anabolic effect of a high protein meal, and decreasing catabolism thereafter if protein intake is reduced for the remainder of the day.
Now here is where you might be surprised, when you step back and take a look at what they found, you see that eating protein all day in many small meals, or eating a ton of protein in one big meal, made no difference in nitrogen retention in young women. This makes perfect sense with respect to how the body’s systems have evolved to ensure survival (i.e. by altering metabolism according to nutrient intake). If you eat low protein, your body conserves protein. If you eat protein all the time your body breaks it down, oxidizes it and spits it out. It could very well be that all the fuss bodybuilders make (including myself) about where and when their next protein meal is coming from might be for nothing. It could very well be that it is more anabolic to eat large amounts of protein after training (~80% of daily total) and keep protein around 10-12% of meals there after. Believe it or not, there is other research supporting this hypothesis indirectly. Up until now there has been no use in bringing it up with most bodybuilders because of the "tradition" of eating protein in a constant fashion all throughout the day. In time we will see more research on this issue and perhaps Protein Pulse Feeding will become a viable alternative to grazing on meat all day. I can already hear the nay sayers….
References
1: Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Houlier ML, Morin L, Verdier E, Ritz P, Antoine JM, Prugnaud J, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein pulse feeding improves protein retention in elderly women. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition. 1999 Jun;69(6):1202-8.
2: Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Houlier ML, Morin L, Verdier E, Ritz P, Antoine JM, Prugnaud J, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein feeding pattern does not affect protein retention in young women. Journal of Nutrition. 2000 Jul;130(7):1700-4.
3: Arnal MA, Mosoni L, Boirie Y, Gachon P, Genest M, Bayle G, Grizard J, Arnal M, Antoine JM, Beaufrere B, Mirand PP. Protein turnover modifications induced by the protein feeding pattern still persist after the end of the diets. American Journal of Physiology Endocrinology and Metabolism. 2000 May;278(5):E902-9.
http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/protein-pulse-feeding.htm
Last edited:
THeMaCHinE
New member
Lactoferrin is one of the three thermo-labile (temperature sensitive) proteins in the whey protein fraction of cow's milk, very easily denatured by the industry standard heat pasturization process.
http://www.immunesystemsupport.com/bovine/source.html
http://www.immunesystemsupport.com/bovine/source.html
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