Ross, important question for you!

[*Swifto*]

There are very few studies on how these sopposed "suppreissive compounds" are infact suppressive and dont cause total shutdown themselves. There are one or two studies (one on dianabol 100mg/ED for an extended peroid) that states HPTA shutdown wasnt achieved. But the other compounds in Ross's list there is no clinical data.

Bodybuilders use different doses to ones used for aid and cancer patients, therfore its more of a guesing game on whats "suppresive" and whats not.

There are a number of studies that state Anavar (very low dose) was fairly suppressive to the HPTA (40% I believe) so what sort of inhibtion can one expect on 60mg/ED for 6-8 weeks. There is also a study on Winstrol stating the same.

When combining "suppressive compounds" this conclusion of "suppression, not shutdown" become even more hazardous.

Androgens can also be directly inhibtiive to the pituitary and leydig cells, which Ross's theory doesnt comprehend. Though this is a subject no-one fully understands yet.

I've spoken with an Endo regarding these theories and other theory's Ross has, which have been refuted.

 

[Tatyana]

There is not much data available, but I have composed a list based on the known properties of each anabolic steroid compound.

The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate ESTROGEN receptors, to varying degrees:

Testosterone
Methandrostenolone
Mathandriol
Oxymetholone
Nandrolone
Boldenone

The Following drugs either DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY activate PROGESTERONE receptors, to varying degrees:

Nandrolone
Trenbolone
Oxymetholone

The Following drugs activate Androgen receptors, to varying degrees:

Testosterone
Methandrostenolone
Mathandriol
Oxymetholone
Nandrolone
Boldenone
Trenbolone
Halotestin
Oxandrolone
Stanzolol
Chlorodehydromethltestosterone
Methyltestosterone
Methenolone...
(ALL AAS*)

As we can see, the steroids that cause HPTA SHUTDOWN either OVERSATURATE ONE SPECIFIC receptor, or they activate too many TOTAL receptors(Androgen/Estrogen/Progesterone)

For instance, Trenbolone causes HPTA SHUTDOWN because it OVERSATURATES BOTH, the ANDROGEN and the PROGESTERONE receptors. Testosterone causes SHUTDOWN because it converts to ESTROGEN and DHT, therefore, it oversaturates the Androgen/Estrogen receptors.

As we can ALSO SEE, the steroids that DO NOT cause SHUTDOWN of the HPTA, do NOT oversaturate ANY of the different hormone receptors, and thus, do NOT cause SHUTDOWN. Methenolone(Primobolan) does not possess ANY Estrogenic or Progestational ACTIVITY WHATSOEVER. It does, by virtue of being an anabolic steroid, posses a SMALL Androgenic component. Because it lacks ANY ESTROGENIC/PROGESTATIONAL component, and it lacks a strong Androgenic component, it WILL NOT CAUSE SHUTDOWN! Oxandrolone(Anavar) posseses NO Estrogenic/Progestational component either. AND, it also lacks a strong androgenic component. Thus, Anavar will NOT cause shutdown.

I bounced this post off of a neuroscientist I know (that means he has a PhD), and he is a jooser and a mod on a fairly reknown BBing board.

This was his response:


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he's wrong on many levels. However, some drugs will not shut you down completely. thats the only point he makes in the beginning, but he doesn't really understand what is known and not known about feed back to the hypothalamus.

 

[Ross]

I bounced this post off of a neuroscientist I know (that means he has a PhD), and he is a jooser and a mod on a fairly reknown BBing board.

This was his response:


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he's wrong on many levels. However, some drugs will not shut you down completely. thats the only point he makes in the beginning, but he doesn't really understand what is known and not known about feed back to the hypothalamus.

He does know that we are talking about receptors in the Hypothalamus, correct?

 

[Tatyana]

He does know that we are talking about receptors in the Hypothalamus, correct?

Yes Ross, he has a PhD in neuroscience and is a research scientist.

The whole hypothalamus-anterior/posterior pituitary thing and all the trophic releasing factors and negative feedback regulation.

Do you know which hormone in the pituitary has a positive feedback mechanism as you have been educating people in endocrinology 101?

What did you study at Uni BTW?

 

[samoth]

We can see from the chart above that a simgle 100mg injection of Deca caused a total (100%) reduction of natural testosterone levels, and it took about a month to return those testosterone levels to baseline! All from 100mgs of Deca!

What? A complete 100% shutdown would mean that those little dot thigns on the graph go to zero. They do not. Everyone's just arguing degrees of suppression here, not "total reduction".

Twenty nm to 5 nm is a 75% reduction.

Therefore, we can conclude that deca "does not SHUTDOWN the HPTA, it DOES reduce endogenous testosterone production, obviously".

And ditto that the pretty excell chart had no reference or source. I can easily make a chart saying anything I want, host it online, then use it to push my arguments.

 

[eddymerckx]

Yes Ross, he has a PhD in neuroscience and is a research scientist.

The whole hypothalamus-anterior/posterior pituitary thing and all the trophic releasing factors and negative feedback regulation.

Do you know which hormone in the pituitary has a positive feedback mechanism as you have been educating people in endocrinology 101?

What did you study at Uni BTW?

ummm, i believe this is what they call: "game, set, match...next player"

 

[GUARDIAN]

ummm, i believe this is what they call: "game, sat, match...next player"

 

[digitizedsoul]

I agree. Ownage factor 5000 there.

tat

 

[1999TL]

ummm, i believe this is what they call: "game, set, match...next player"

Dont really want to bump this, but I just read this whole thing. Just thought it was interesting he didn't respond after that.