Ross, important question for you!

[Harleymarleybone]

thanks for the response - now curious to what the negs would be with not running it. what will a lack of test do?

I am not convinced you need test in every cycle. The fact that any steroid suppresses test, does not mean you need to replace it with test, since the steroid you are taking, including the ones you mentioned may be structurally and functionally similar enough to test to do everything that test does, including keeping Mr. Willy happy.

 

[gjohnson5]

[The word deca was replaced with the word nandrolone]

Let's talk about nandrolone for a second.

*edit --- I forgot about the structure point*
nandrolone is a 19-nor-testosterone based drug That means that the main difference is that nandrolone and testosterone is that the carbon atom removed from the 19th position of the molecule. So structurally testosterone and nandrolone are very similar. However the expression initiated in the body and the metabolism of the two molecules is dissimilar enough that I would say nandrolone is not a replacement for testosterone. Infact your body sees nandrolone as a progestin instead of a testosterone derivative --- edit*

nandrolone is supressive to the point that noone really runs nandrolone without test. Can anyone point out a compound which can be stacked with nandrolone which can serve as a replacement for test?
*edit EQ maybe?? *edit*

IMHO it's not about replacing test , it's more about using drugs which create the best synergy when stacked. So No , test is not a requirement , but your gains may not be all that great without it

I am not convinced you need test in every cycle. The fact that any steroid suppresses test, does not mean you need to replace it with test, since the steroid you are taking, including the ones you mentioned may be structurally and functionally similar enough to test to do everything that test does, including keeping Mr. Willy happy.

 

[njmuscleguy]

I am not convinced you need test in every cycle. The fact that any steroid suppresses test, does not mean you need to replace it with test, since the steroid you are taking, including the ones you mentioned may be structurally and functionally similar enough to test to do everything that test does, including keeping Mr. Willy happy.

what other AAS are you suggesting that is "structurally and functionally similar enough to test" that you wouldn't need TEST? if you say DHT-derivitatves such as proviron and masteron, which are more androgenic than test (but not quite as anabolic), well who bases their cycles on just proviron or masteron?

plus, try telling anyone who suffers from deca-dick or tren-dick that they don't need test.... the response won't be pretty!

 

[jnef]

what other AAS are you suggesting that is "structurally and functionally similar enough to test" that you wouldn't need TEST? if you say DHT-derivitatves such as proviron and masteron, which are more androgenic than test (but not quite as anabolic), well who bases their cycles on just proviron or masteron?

plus, try telling anyone who suffers from deca-dick or tren-dick that they don't need test.... the response won't be pretty!

just throwing this out there...

eq/primo/mast

wouldnt that be a cycle that could do without test?

 

[dabuffguy]

ABSOLUTELY! In fact, HRT (hormone replacement therapy) dosage of test in most cases is 100-150mg per week. So if you're taking 150-200mg, then you're definitely ensuring that you're supplying what your body would be making naturally (that is, if you're healthy and have no hormonal deficiencies).

Over the years, dosages of *all* AAS have drastically increased... people think that you need alot more in order to get any kind of results. Simply not true. You can still get great results at lower, more modest dosages provided your training and diet are in check.

+1

My first cycle was 250 test and 20mg dbol ED. I made awesome gains, and it was very low dose.

 

[njmuscleguy]

just throwing this out there...

eq/primo/mast

wouldnt that be a cycle that could do without test?

I don't have any experience with any of those... my understanding is that people can have libido issues with EQ, plus anxiety issues... according to Nelson, primo neither raises or lowers test levels, so I'm not sure if it's a suitable "replacement" to test... I can see masteron / proviron as a substitute for test in that they could help boost libido, but their gains in no way compare to test.

 

[Tatyana]

what other AAS are you suggesting that is "structurally and functionally similar enough to test" that you wouldn't need TEST? if you say DHT-derivitatves such as proviron and masteron, which are more androgenic than test (but not quite as anabolic), well who bases their cycles on just proviron or masteron?

plus, try telling anyone who suffers from deca-dick or tren-dick that they don't need test.... the response won't be pretty!

I did read a bit of an endo text this afternoon.

If I remember this correctly, DHT and test have the same affinity for the androgen receptors in muscle tissues, it varies quite considerably in other tissues.

 

[Ross]

Proviron and Masteron can be used INSTEAD OF TESTOSTERONE, as I have already stated.

The ANDROGENIC component possessed by these two compounds will increase MOOD, LIBIDO, and ENERGY.

 

[Tatyana]

AR-binding is only one pathway for anabolism, some steroids(such as Dianabol) barely bind to the A-R at all and yet are still extremely anabolic.

In terms of HPTA inhibition, each steroid has different binding affinity for the Androgen/Estrogen/Progesterone receptors. Steroids which ACTIVATE these receptors(bind) cause greater HPTA inhibition than those that do not.

Elaborate on the bits in bold please.

I am especially interested in the affinity of the different steroids for androgen (or other sex hormone receptors).

I did a wee bit of a search and couldn't find anything.

 

[Mavafanculo]

once you start a cycle at high enough total levels, your body will cease producing its own test or cut back severely. some compounds are more suppressive than others, but at the doses an intermediate level BB would take you'll likely end up shut down.

I cant take it down to a molecule level, but going by my own experience and that of others that I've talked to or read about, you just never feel quite right without some Test cruising tru your system.

even supplying dht via masteron or proviron doesnt get it quite right mentally or physically. I've tried.

It might be the absence of metabolites that only reduce from test? might even be the small amount of estrogen that aromatized test will provide. dont know. there's alot the scientific community doesnt know about how and why drugs do all of what they do, and steroids are no exception.

absent any studies one way or the other, my opinion is just err on the side of safety and always add at least a replacement dose of test to a suppressive cycle (200-300 mg weekly). It doesnt need to be the base compound, just needs to be in there.