Proper deadlift pulling technique and preventing injuries

[anabolicmd]

you have so much to learn, so a little humbleness might do you well. For instance....
let's start with the mythical 1964 mexico city olympics tests where OLers beat all the other olympians in these events.

These events are mythical because they are just that, an urban legend. Much like ben johnsons "squat of 600lbs" before his 9.79 in Seoul. There is zero documentation supporting the former and outright contradiction against the latter, yet both are often quoted in Strength training articles.

Well, Fred Hatfield, aka Dr. Squat, a recognized powerlifting/squating authority seems to disagree with you. Or arent you humble enough to admit he might know more about weightlifting than you? I freely admit that Dr. Hatfield has forgotten more about weightlifting then Ill ever know. Here is what he says:

"Pound for pound, Olympic weightlifters have a greater level of speed-strength than any other class of athletes in all of sport. This fact was made very clear during a massive scientific expedition carried out on the athletes at the Mexico City Olympics in 1964. Sports scientists found that Olympic lifters were able to both vertical jump higher than any class of athletes (including the high jumpers), and run a 25 yard dash faster than any class of athletes (including the sprinters)."

::end quote::

Link:

http://www.geocities.com/~slopitch/drsquat/1olympic.htm

 

[anabolicmd]

Here is another excellent article with some great examples. No urban myths here:

"It was made very clear in 1964 who the athletes were who had the best maximum speed and strength. In a field test at the Olympics in Mexico City they found that the Olympic weightlifters could out jump the jumpers in the vertical jump and out sprint the sprinters in the 25m. This is extremely amazing considering these athletes don't run or jump. The reason being for this is that these athletes (Olympic Lifters) have the ability to turn on as many motor units as possible and keep them firing once they have them geared up. Very sad that only around 1500 competing Olympic Lifts in the USA today. These numbers amazingly low considering other countries (mostly East) such as China and Russia have over 1 million competing Olympic Athletes are.

Examples of how AMAZING feats of the Olympic Weightlifter are: Note: The fallowing Stats are from Chad Ikei's "Pulling to Jump Higher"

"Nicu Vlad of Romania, World Record holder and Two time Olympic Medallist, came to the United States back in 1990, with now current U.S. National and Olympic Team Coach Dragomir Cioroslan, for a training camp. It was here at the U.S. Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs, that this 100-kg (220 lbs) weightlifter recorded a 42" vertical jump. Not to mention he was in weightlifting shoes, which weighs a lot more than tennis shoes and no formal warm-up. (Snatch 200 kg, Clean and Jerk 232.5 kg)

Wesley Barnett of Team USA, 3-time Olympian and Silver Medallist @ 1997 World Championships, have legs (especially hamstrings) and ass like a thoroughbred on him that most body builders would like to have. He has recorded vertical jumps of over 39" @ a height of 6'1" and 105 kg (231 lbs). I've even witnessed him dunking a basketball while jumping over my head, and I do mean literally jumping over my head which of course only stands a mere 5'2" but he straddle jumped directly over my head and dunked. (Snatch 175 kg, Clean and Jerk 220 kg)

Mark Henry, 1996 Olympic Team Member, now known as "Sexual Chocolate" on the WWF scene, had quite a vertical jump. At 6'3" tall he could dunk a basketball, not to mention that he could squat over 1000 lbs and dead lift over 900 lbs. Now dunking a basketball at 6'3" doesn't sound that hard, but take in to account that he weighed at that time 175 kg (385 lbs). Now that's impressive for a big guy. (Snatch 180 kg, Clean and Jerk 220 kg)

Shane Hamman, 2000 Olympic Team Member and current National Super heavyweight Champion, another big man weighing in @ 163 kg (358 lbs) but only at a height of 5'9" tall, can jump onto boxes @ a height over 42" high. Of course Shane was also known for his squatting ability of over 1000 lbs. (Snatch 195 kg, Clean and Jerk 230 kg).

Most of you are saying, "Big deal its just a vertical!" In a 1979 study by Bosco and Komi**concluded that the vertical jump performance is related to the percent of FT fibers. I think I have made it clear of the benefits of Olympic Lifts and the carry over it has to the recruitment and fire of FT fibers."

::end quote::

Link:

http://hpbody.com/articles/anthony20.htm

 

[b fold the truth]

Actually, oly lifters squat, powerlifters do not. If you go halfway down its not a squat, its technically a half-squat. Also, Olympic lifters also stand up with the weight, only they hold it overhead or on their shoulders while standing up.

Actually...OLY lifters Clean and Jerk as well as Snatch.

Actually...Powerlifters squat, bench press and deadlift.

Well, Fred Hatfield, aka Dr. Squat, a recognized powerlifting/squating authority seems to disagree with you. Or arent you humble enough to admit he might know more about weightlifting than you? I freely admit that Dr. Hatfield has forgotten more about weightlifting then Ill ever know. Here is what he says:

I find it funny that you use Powerlifters in your examples yet seem to love putting them down in another example. Dr. Squat also said on interview that he did not understand the WSB principles but he had no reason to ever discredit them because OBVIOUSLY they did work (as he sat next to Louie Simmons). Note that WSB and Louie Simmons advocates the use of support gear (as does Dr. Squat) the parallel squat, and the use of Chucks to squat in...as well as the way that I pull (bar away from the shins, per the article which I posted early in this thread).

Interesting that you freely admit that a powerlifter has forgotten more about weightlifting that you will ever know. Interesting that you say that a person's size or stats should not determine the validity of their arguement...yet you use Dr. Squat as a good reference.

Interesting that you say that someone isn't humble enough to admit that someone else might know more about weightlifting. Interesting...coming from YOU.

B True

 

[anabolicmd]

Bfold, I will now join Debaser in asking you to please stick to the discussion at hand, and to stop insulting and provoking me in a personal manner. The discussion, and the board really go downhill with that kind of conduct. Please, enough is enough.

 

[b fold the truth]

Bfold, I will now join Debaser in asking you to please stick to the discussion at hand, and to stop insulting and provoking me in a personal manner. The discussion, and the board really go downhill with that kind of conduct. Please, enough is enough.

Yet you do not discuss any of my points.

Seriously...why do you do this? You do not address ANY of my points.

I'll not stop making posts...you should really have to reply to my points.

You should have to apologize for making a VERY negative attack towards me in the inital post of this thread.

You should have to admit that others might just know a little more than you do.

You should have to stop insulting powerlifters, especially since nobody has insulted OL Lifters.

B True

 

[anabolicmd]

First of all, I never insulted you, or anyone else. Nor did I ever say that your pulling technique was what caused your injury. I simply said that your injury reminded me of the importance of correct form and its importance. And yes, I do feel that your form MAY HAVE contributed to your injury. You cleared up the fact that you did not start the bar away from the shins the time you got hurt, and I understand that. But as I said, this is not a thread about your injury specifically, but rather about the role of correct technique in preventing injuries. I said that starting the pull far out from the shins is not the best technique, and it can be a contributing factor in missed lifts and yes, injuries. Now, you want to see disrespect, you want to see insults? Here you go, straight from the source:

You don't have a clue...

I love it when someone who doesn't even workout gives advice to athletes.
B True

1) You may very well be a Troll

I'm thinking that you pretty much are a Troll...
B True

I'm pretty darn sure that you ARE a Troll. You do NOT lift weights and you have trolled on the Chat board too. We don't go for trolls here on this forum.
B True

And you know what? Your comments are dragging this thread through the dirt, and if you havent noticed, there is a pretty good discussion developing here, and Im not going to let petty comments and arguments drag this board down, so this will be the last time Ill address this issue.

 

[b fold the truth]

First of all, I never insulted you, or anyone else. Nor did I ever say that your pulling technique was what caused your injury. I simply said that your injury reminded me of the importance of correct form and its importance. And yes, I do feel that your form MAY HAVE contributed to your injury. You cleared up the fact that you did not start the bar away from the shins the time you got hurt, and I understand that. But as I said, this is not a thread about your injury specifically, but rather about the role of correct technique in preventing injuries. I said that starting the pull far out from the shins is not the best technique, and it can be a contributing factor in missed lifts and yes, injuries. Now, you want to see disrespect, you want to see insults? Here you go, straight from the source:

I apologize for taking that your post was making fun of my injury and saying that my form was the cause. I, however, was not the only person who thought this. I have emails and PM's from others who felt the SAME way. One of my workout partners, who were here the day that I tore my hamstring, saw this thread first and took it the SAME way that I did.

I am apologizing for taking it the wrong way.

As far as the others...I explained it pretty well I thought.
Troll? Did you copy/past threads from other message boards while posing that it was YOU?

I also stated that I've been told by more than one member that you do not workout. I posted it...and you made no comment otherwise. You could have addressed it...but once again you shyed away from my points.

And you know what? Your comments are dragging this thread through the dirt, and if you havent noticed, there is a pretty good discussion developing here, and Im not going to let petty comments and arguments drag this board down, so this will be the last time Ill address this issue.

As you are dragging it through the dirt as well. You have insulted me as well as powerlifters and their sport.

Still...you have not addressed any of my points. You still like to address your posts AT me instead of my points that I have made. Are you avoiding my POINTS for a reason???

B True

 

[StrongChE]

In reference to the 1964 Olympic games: Why would any strength coach let their athletes be tested for running and jumping at Olympic games time? Their training is so specific that they do not let anything interfere with it. I doubt they would let a small scientific experiment interfere with possible gold, or a possible injury. And at that time there was cold war so I doubt the communist countries would participate to share results.

Shane Hammon and Mark Henry were first both powerlifters and had the vertical jump before Olympic lifting. Old issues of PLUSA used to always mention Shane's huge vertical.

Another powerlifter Chuck Vogelpohl at 220lb has a vertical over 40 inches. For every olympic athlete you cite, there is a powerlifter to cite.

It is true that the old western periodization is the greatest for speed, but the training has evolved and parallels olympic lifting.
Powerlifting is a young sport compared to olympic lifting.

In my opinion, the best ideas in powerlifting have come from olympic lifting. Olympic training works, it is researched, so naturally powerlifting pulls ideas from it.

But, the arguement of explosiveness has gotten away from the original point. Powerlifters do train explosively, we based and adjusted our percentages off of olympic data.

In response to powerlifters not full squatting: RBrown already explained that the level of the hip determines the depth to achieve. With a close stance you have to have your butt very low to achieve this level. Powerlifters found that by moving the feet out very wide, and making sure the shins are vertical the hip will dip below the knees with a short range of movement. The bar is also placed lower on the upper back. IF you are talking about how far the bar travels in the vertical plane, we can get the bar as low as any olympic lifter's squat.


How about this fact, powerlifters have a higher level of absolute strength than olympic lifters.

 

[Nonerz]

Sorry to interject, but it doesn't matter who it was directed to. To make a successful point, one must debunk the quality of a person's arguments, not the person himself/herself.

It shouldn't matter if anabolicmd is 110 lbs sopping wet. It is fallacious to discount a person's argument because of who they are.

I didn't ask for stats...this is what I said:

I'm curious what kind of experience you have and what type of training you do.

My point of asking is that I'd rather take advice from someone who has experience rather than just theory.

 

[Cut]

My point of asking is that I'd rather take advice from someone who has experience rather than just theory.

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