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Louie Simmons
"This brings me to a question that I was asked recently at a seminar: Why is the box squat superior to the power clean? It’s simple. The box squat has an eccentric phase, a power clean does not. The eccentric phase utilizes the property of kinetic energy adding to the stretch reflex. Most lifters can hang clean more than an actual power clean for the same reason. But, remember, the squat weight can easily exceed clean weights and is more beneficial when done with the same speed."
-Louie Simmons
"This brings me to a question that I was asked recently at a seminar: Why is the box squat superior to the power clean? It’s simple. The box squat has an eccentric phase, a power clean does not. The eccentric phase utilizes the property of kinetic energy adding to the stretch reflex. Most lifters can hang clean more than an actual power clean for the same reason. But, remember, the squat weight can easily exceed clean weights and is more beneficial when done with the same speed."
-Louie Simmons
Sammy Sosa
New member
The only thing explosive is the lifter dropping under the bar. That is what gives the illusion of fast bar speed. And who says you can't pull deads at a fast speed. Also when in sports do you perform an olmpic lift. Football players and wrestlers should not squat olmpic style, if they kept there feet close together they would be easily pushed over. So why train that way?
coolcolj
New member
Man does not live on bread alone like I have said.
I have argued this point so many times I won't bother anymore.
strength training is never specific to sports.
So you want to use exercises that work as many muscles as possible for effeciency and through a full ROM for msucle balance
using your specificity argument then athletes and footballers run with splayed legs?
I have argued this point so many times I won't bother anymore.
strength training is never specific to sports.
So you want to use exercises that work as many muscles as possible for effeciency and through a full ROM for msucle balance
using your specificity argument then athletes and footballers run with splayed legs?
CoolColJ - check this article out
www.elitefts.com/documents/TomMyslinski.pdf
CoolColJ, check out the above term paper, it is an analysis of the Russian Conjugate Sequence System.
At our level, we need a larger base of exercise. At the elite level there is specificity but it uses means to achieve what is needed in the sport.
www.elitefts.com/documents/TomMyslinski.pdf
CoolColJ, check out the above term paper, it is an analysis of the Russian Conjugate Sequence System.
At our level, we need a larger base of exercise. At the elite level there is specificity but it uses means to achieve what is needed in the sport.
coolcolj
New member
Yes I've read it before
but then you have people like Bulgarians who only do the comp lifts and 2 types of squats at the elite level and they are right up there on the pointy end
So it would seem that there are no absolutes.
personally somewhere in between is the right place to be
but then you have people like Bulgarians who only do the comp lifts and 2 types of squats at the elite level and they are right up there on the pointy end
So it would seem that there are no absolutes.
personally somewhere in between is the right place to be
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anabolicmd
Guest
b fold the truth said:
Actually Bfold, after taking a day off and looking at things obectively, I am the one who should appologize to you. Looking back, a simple pm to you would have ensured your support and approval of my using your injury as an example. Especially considering the fact that you are in heavy training mode, and prolly did not neded the added aggravation. I guess Im just used to your mellowness which is legendary, but I took it for granted and that was out of line. Let me just say this, I have tremendous respect for you and what you do. Especially the fact that you are not a product of fancy training centers and expensive equipment. You are truly the champion of underdog athletes who do what they do against the odds, for the love of the sport. Nothing would make me happier then being able to say that i helped you at least think in a direction you might not have before. I was humbled when you said you'd try my suggestions, even though we were arguing and things got heated. Anhyway, enough blubbering, there are questions to be asked, pots to be stirred and controversies to be raised...and hopefully we all learn at least a different point of view. Im really excited about the power generation stats for various lifts as well as crossover excercise benefits between all the strength sports. I wish you all the best in your recovery, training and competition.
Sammy Sosa
New member
You can power clean your ass off and you will still not be fast. Glute and hamstrings is what makes a runner fast, explosive box squats will target these areas better. And like I said, dropping under a bar isn't an explosive muscular contraction. But you are right, there are no absolutes except that anabolicmd is a troll.
By the way, like your avatar CoolColJ, she is so fine.
By the way, like your avatar CoolColJ, she is so fine.
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anabolicmd
Guest
Sammy Sosa said:
Sammy, Sammy, "The only thing explosive is the lifter dropping under the bar"? That is totally false. There are two pulls that occur before the dip under the bar, and those are by far the most explosive movement not only of the excercise, but in all of sports. Actually, the second pull (from the thighs) is the more powerful of the two. See my thread about power generation and speed (explosiveness) in this thread for a better understanding:
"Work by Dr John Garhammer, a biomechanist at the Department of Physical Education at California State University reveals some interesting comparisons between exercises in the development of power. Garhammer underlines Starr's remarks that speed for the deadlift is built with Olympic pulls. In "A Review of Power Output Studies of Olympic and Powerlifting: Methodology, Performance, Prediction and Evaluation Test", elite Olympic lifters' and powerlifters' power outputs were as follows (w/kg = watts per kilo of body weight):
During Entire Snatch or Clean Pull Movements:
34.3 w/kg Men
21.8 w/kg Women
Second Pulls:
52.6 w/kg Men
39.2 w/kg Women
Squat and Deadlift:
12 w/kg Men
For female powerlifters, "estimates indicate that the corresponding values
for women are 60-70% as great".
With this basic breakdown in mind, the power output comparisons of a
100-kilo male lifter in the clean, second pull and deadlift would be as follows.
Clean-------------3430 watts
Second Pull----5260 watts
Deadlift----------1200 watts
Obviously, there is a huge difference in power outputs. The power output of clean pulls is 2.85 time greater than a deadlift. Second pulls are even higher with power outputs 4.38 times larger than deadlifts. Garhammer's research showed that even when dropping the training poundage down to lower percentages for Olympic pulls and deadlifts, outputs for Olympic pulls were still almost twice as great. Starr was way ahead of the curve on his training in regards to Olympic pulls for deadlifts. "
link to thread:
http://boards.elitefitness.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=291070
