Proper deadlift pulling technique and preventing injuries

[b fold the truth]

Re: Re: Re: Proper deadlift pulling technique and preventing injuries

I was just using your experience as an example to explain the importance of proper technique when pulling heavy weights off the ground. If you disagree, you are welcome to reply and comment. And as far as the bar position at the beginning of the pull, it doesnt "go in then out then in" at the knees, it goes straight up past them. Remember, just because its common practice, does not mean it is proper technique.

You don't have a clue...

You were using MY experience as an example to explain the importance of proper technique??? Well, according to YOU and YOUR proper technique...I tore my hamstring using YOUR proper technique. You want to tell me again how YOUR way is safer???

And YES...when I pull...if I start the bar close to my shins it DOES go out to go over my knees.

I love it when someone who doesn't even workout gives advice to athletes.

B True

 

[Nonerz]

Shouldnt they both use the most efficient, effective and economical motion? The bar doesnt know whos pulling it, and pulling a bar back does nothelp it go up. Pulling it up does.

they should, but there are slight differences in body position relative to the goal of the lift. with an OLY lift, the bar is to be exploded up and the body positioned in various ways beneath it. (ex. clean, snatch) with a deadlift, the goal it to get it to the hips.

the kinematics of the bar will be different because the end result is different.

 

[anabolicmd]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Proper deadlift pulling technique and preventing injuries

You don't have a clue...

You were using MY experience as an example to explain the importance of proper technique??? Well, according to YOU and YOUR proper technique...I tore my hamstring using YOUR proper technique. You want to tell me again how YOUR way is safer???

And YES...when I pull...if I start the bar close to my shins it DOES go out to go over my knees.

I love it when someone who doesn't even workout gives advice to athletes.

B True

Theres no need for insults and put downs Bfold. The notion of keeping the bar close to the shins at the beginning is not "MY" technique. I learned it from Dragomir Cioroslan who has forgotten more about lifting weights than both of us put together will ever know.

 

[anabolicmd]

they should, but there are slight differences in body position relative to the goal of the lift. with an OLY lift, the bar is to be exploded up and the body positioned in various ways beneath it. (ex. clean, snatch) with a deadlift, the goal it to get it to the hips.

the kinematics of the bar will be different because the end result is different.

The only difference is, as you mentioned, speed and follow up. The bar goes up the same way whenever it is pulled from the ground: straight up. Not backwards, not in-out-in-out, but upwards as vertically as possible.

 

[Debaser]

B fold I understand your aggravation but I think you're being a little hard on him, he wasn't trying to disrespect you IMO, only critiquing your form. Whether he's right or not is another matter--attack his arguments, not him.

I would like to know more about the issue. I'm curious, putting everything about injury aside, why does having the bar forward a few inches enable you to lift more weight? Powerlifters always seem to strive for the shortest range of motion, and this doesn't seem as though it would be.

Also, back to the injury matter, do you know what caused the hamstring tear? Do you have a video that we could see? Have you ever felt *any* pain in your hamstring(s) prior to this? Even if it were minor and not excrucating?

 

[anabolicmd]

An interesting aside to this isue is the motion of the bar in the snatch and clean and jerk. Back when I first started lifting for wrestling, I was sent to workout with an oly weightlifting club, in the mid to late eighties. Back then the theory was that the bar should sweep in, then out and back in at the shoulders, makin an elongated "s" curve along the way. After that, I hadnt done much oly lifting untill 98 - 99, and that was when I had the good fortune to meet Dragomir Cioroslan, and I spent a year and a half training with a member of the US weightlifting team. Thats when I found out that the "s" motion was not in use anymore, that it was all about keeping the path of the bar as vertical as possible, as close as possible to the body as well. Its simply the most efficient way of pulling the bar.

 

[anabolicmd]

Why is the powerlifting style less efficient and less stable?

Your views are very interesting. If you have any references to the biomechanics of olympic lifting and powerlifting, please PM me with them.

The "powerlifting" style, is less stable because you are moving backwards while trying to stand up. It is less stable because you have to pull the bar towards you, instead of just straight up.

As for references and sources, I'll cite them right here rather than PMing you. Here's one:

Biomechanical Analysis of the Deadlift
By Martyn Girvan
For EliteFTS.com

"Keeping the load as close to the body as possible should assist with increasing the mechanical advantage for greater force production."

"Movements are governed by physical laws. Understanding and applying biomechanical principles to deadlifting technique can result in the lift being more energy efficient and allowing greater peak performance. In contrast , poor body mechanics become less efficient and may cause injury"

Stone, M. & O'Bryant, H. (1987). Weight Training: A Scientific Approach. (2nd ed.). Edina: Burgess International.

 

[collegiateLifter]

Shouldnt they both use the most efficient, effective and economical motion? The bar doesnt know whos pulling it, and pulling a bar back does nothelp it go up. Pulling it up does.

again biomechanics is what youre missing.....


consider that pulling "back" may give you access to biomechanically stronger muscles and recruitment pattern, but may not be desireable for OLers because they cannot switch so easily from the "back motion" to snapping the bar up to a clean position.

 

[WalkingBeast]

You act as if proper technique is clearly defined, black and white, such isnt the case. Anyone can devise a form for deadlifting. When it comes down to it, you just have to do what works for you and what feels right. Ive tried to follow so called proper form on certain lifts before, and it was just awkward and painful. Ive had much more success just following the techniques that I feel strong with as well as safe. I dont think achieving the shortest bar distance is the only thing to look at. Like someone here said, If that was the case you could perform a bench press as a lateral raise from your thigh. I definately think alot more factors are at work.

 

[anabolicmd]

You act as if proper technique is clearly defined, black and white, such isnt the case. Anyone can devise a form for deadlifting. When it comes down to it, you just have to do what works for you and what feels right. Ive tried to follow so called proper form on certain lifts before, and it was just awkward and painful. Ive had much more success just following the techniques that I feel strong with as well as safe. I dont think achieving the shortest bar distance is the only thing to look at. Like someone here said, If that was the case you could perform a bench press as a lateral raise from your thigh. I definately think alot more factors are at work.

Yes, Walkingbeast, you made this point before and I meant to address that but I didnt get around to it. You are correct, there is no one proper, right or prescribed way to deadlift that is written in stone, and that everyone must agree to. No. But, it is about lifting the biggest weight, and there are certain factors that are universal. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. Any deviation from that line is an additional, unnecessary and detrimental waste of energy. The whole idea is to tranfer as much energy as you generate into lifting the bar UP. Energy is limited and must be maximized. Lifting the bar thats two-three or more inches away from the body therefore doesnt make sense if maximum lifts are ones goal. As far as the lateral raise/bench press analogy, it makes no sense at all. Raising your outstreched arms from your thigh to the bench finish position is actually the longer rout, and a different direction so it doesnt matter anyway. A correct analogy with the bench press fortifies my argument: the shortest distance between the botom and top of a benc pres is, you guessed it, a straight line vertically going up.