Nelson Montanas' short cycle philosophy

[KOArtist]

Are these short cycle even "doable" with slow acting stuff like EQ/Anavar, etc. Seems youd be done with your cycle before anything even "kicked in". Im clueless, but are short cycles more geared towards Test/Fina/etc??? Sorry, but my nonplatinum search doesnt find me jacksquat about this.

 

[Nelson Montana]

It's a common misimpression that injectables take weeks to "kick in" How can that be when the duration of most esters are about 10 days? What happeneds the the first 3 weeks of testosterone? True, orals hits harder, which is why I recommend them in order to get into an anabolic enviorment immediately.

Another misconception is that the cycle must end exactly 21 days after starting it. Nope. The esters will begin to disipate at that point and that'll work as an "easing off " period allowing the body to re-adjust. So technically, my 3 week plan really lasts about a month.

If you wanted to do the ultimate version you can make the last week "all anabolic". (Primo and winny or var) That will give the HPTA time to start working its way back (although it can never fully recover as long as something is in your system) yet you'll still be getting maximum nitrogen retention.

 

[JKerry]

nelson, what do you think about frontloading the primo on the first day at 400mgs. it wouldn't keep blood levels up any longer overall, yet manages to get you up to peak levels from day 1. i played with this notion on roidcalc and thought i might run this by you.

jkerry

 

[Nelson Montana]

nelson, what do you think about frontloading the primo on the first day at 400mgs. it wouldn't keep blood levels up any longer overall, yet manages to get you up to peak levels from day 1. i played with this notion on roidcalc and thought i might run this by you.

jkerry

That'll work, ( a lot of oil though) Of course, you'll still need to continue with more Primo over the next couple of weeks. (Mmmm, a 400 mg Primo frontload. Sounds tasty, don't it?)

Another good front load is sus 250 on day one and another on day 3. (But no d-bol with this -- only var or winny) Then continue with the rest of the program.

Most everyone who has done this gets solid (albeit modest) gains with no crash and no gyno. But as always, it's good to keep proviron on hand and to follow with the herbal therapy to help speed recovery and manage excess e.

 

[Mavy]

Hey Nelson,

What can you critique this idea. I think that it is fairly similar to your recommended short cycle, just higher dosages. I guess my question is ... do you really think it matters if you use higher doses if the cycle is still only a short period of time? My thinking is that it is still to short of a time to experience major sides. This is what I was playing around with if I were to try a short cycle ... which I may lean towards.

Wk1
EQ: 800mgs (frontload)
Sust: 500mgs
dbol: 30mgs/day

Wk2
EQ: 600mgs
Sust: 500mgs
Winny (oral): 50mgs/day

Wk3
EQ: 400mgs
Var: 50mgs/day

Wk4
Var: 40mgs/day
Creatine: 15g/day

Wk5
Var: 40mgs.day
Creatine: 15g/day
Proviron: 25mgs/day

Wk6
Creatine: 15g/day
Proviron: 25mgs/day
Post Cycle Arsenal (whatever it may be).

Please feel free to critique away at this, I am open to suggestions. The reason for the higher dosages is that I feel that I need these to respond now, especially more so in a shorter cycle. The intent is to kinda explode at first and then harden a bit near the end, i know ... kinda hard to think of doing that in 3 weeks only. Also the reason of running the var a little longer is to harden up, and to get more gains while the EQ is fading out of the system since it stays for 17-21 days after the last shot. Any info greatly appreciated.

Take Care,
Mavy

 

[Nelson Montana]

The reason for keeping it under a month is twofold: The best gains come in that time, and the HPTA starts to really lag if "on" too much longer than that. You're doing 6 weeks of 1500mgs a week bro. That really is nothing like what I'm talking about, but if it works for you, go for it. But honesly, if it takes that much gear to make gains, maybe something is lacking elsewhere . But that's a whole other story.

 

[thx9000]

Okay, help me out here. There's something I just don't understand regarding long esters.

Let's say I one is taking a long acting ester how does that fit well into a short cycle? Arbitrarily let's consider cyp with its 12dy half life.

I agree that the gear “starts working” right away. The “kick in” that people refer to is simply the fact that they start SEEING the physical results in 3 or so weeks, but that’s probably just because they needed the first two weeks of time in the gym with the gear for the incremental changes that result from their workouts. It’s kicked in on dy1, you just can’t see more mass of strength until several workouts have passed. If one needs proof that it kicks in so quickly, do 500mg of CYP in the first week without an anti-E. I did it and watched myself gain 8lbs of water in just about 10dy. As far as I am concerned it kicks in right away.

Okay, but that’s not my question.

Let’s say one takes CYP at 500mg/wk for 3wk and takes that along with their favorite oral. During this 3wk period you have little carbon atoms falling off your ester providing a steady supply of fresh test. By dy21 you have something like 900mg of not yet released. By dy30 you are still at 550mg…dy40 300mg…dy60 100mg. So, this short cycle is still supplying enough fresh test to somewhat suppress natural production for 2X the length of the actual cycle.

What do I have wrong?

 

[garbagegut]

The reason for keeping it under a month is twofold: The best gains come in that time, and the HPTA starts to really lag if "on" too much longer than that. You're doing 6 weeks of 1500mgs a week bro. That really is nothing like what I'm talking about, but if it works for you, go for it. But honesly, if it takes that much gear to make gains, maybe something is lacking elsewhere . But that's a whole other story.

I don't think you read that right Nelson .. he's only hitting it heavy for three weeks. Weeks 4 & 5 are just a little VAR and there's no AS at all week 6.

-GG

 

[KOArtist]

So would you even suggest 3 week anavar only cycles Nelson???

 

[Nelson Montana]

thx: You got it right -- which is why I advise cyp as a front load or to be used for only 2 weeks. The last week should be mostly "anabolic" (primo, var, winny )

Garbage. My oversight. I'd be curious myself how an extra 2 weeks on just var would work out. Never did that.

KO: I think 3 weeks on only var would be too weak -- nless you were going to do like 100 mgs a day, which wouldn't be heathy or cost efficient. It's worth a try but I'd say at least try and throw a hit of test in there up front.