My SARMS-S4 Experience

[split endz]

Did you take the whole bottle ? How many weeks total ? How about a summation showing beginning weight/ ending weight, beginning test levels/ ending test levels, etc. I am finishing my 3rd week of sarms right now. Haven't said much because my results have been lackluster compared to you and radar. The most noticable thing I have experienced from sarms are the vision sides.

 

[truckdaddy]

Did you take the whole bottle ? How many weeks total ? How about a summation showing beginning weight/ ending weight, beginning test levels/ ending test levels, etc. I am finishing my 3rd week of sarms right now. Haven't said much because my results have been lackluster compared to you and radar. The most noticable thing I have experienced from sarms are the vision sides.

what dose?

 

[mrplunkey]

Did you take the whole bottle ? How many weeks total ? How about a summation showing beginning weight/ ending weight, beginning test levels/ ending test levels, etc. I am finishing my 3rd week of sarms right now. Haven't said much because my results have been lackluster compared to you and radar. The most noticable thing I have experienced from sarms are the vision sides.

Started 12/22/09
Stopped 2/15/09

So ran about 7ish weeks. I started at 50 mg/day and ended around 80 mg/day.

I don't really have reliable before and after body weights. What makes it hard to compare is my travel schedule has gone nuts. I do a minimum of two trips a week and half my weeks include a third trip. That really wrecks my workout schedule and lifts.

Here's the one thing I'd watch for with SARMS-S4: You won't get that on-cycle feeling in your head. It takes a little more effort in the gym to push yourself, but you may notice with SARMS-S4 that your recovery and overall gains are better.

 

[azntomahawk]

Subbing to this to read later.

 

[split endz]

what dose?

50 mg/ed split into 25mg doses. I bought some 00 caps & would put 9 drops in a cap & take @ 9am, then repeat @ 7pm

 

[azntomahawk]

I hope to get this soon. Looks perfect between cycles especially after a cycle where u put on a lot of strength but the body is breaking down from lifting all the extra weight. Lately my right shoulder has been feeling funny so I really hope to use this after my Turinabol LV cycle PCT.

 

[needtogetarmy]

awesome thread plunkey. Thanks!

 

[RADAR]

Just remember everyone this is still in the expermental stages, doses around 80-100 can be suppressive, it depends upon the individuals Blood work before and after Sarms,-everyone is different.

RADAR

 

[mrplunkey]

Just remember everyone this is still in the expermental stages, doses around 80-100 can be suppressive, it depends upon the individuals Blood work before and after Sarms,-everyone is different.

RADAR

I'd second that. I've been doing very light HCG (i.e. 500 units 2x/week) along with Unleashed and POST CYCLE. Once my schedule settles down, I'm going back on SARMS-S4 @ 50 mg/day for 5 days on and two days off for at least six weeks and maybe up to eight or ten.

This is going to sound crazy, but I professionally do better when I'm on a restricted calorie diet and mildly supressed. For some reason, I can stay mentally on cue longer and I'm less distracted. When restricted and slightly supressed instead of crashing around 6:00 pm and spending the evening watching news and surfing EF, I'm more inclinded to read a book or even get more job-related work done. I'm going to test this again soon.

 

[EliteFitnessGuy]

I'd second that. I've been doing very light HCG (i.e. 500 units 2x/week) along with Unleashed and POST CYCLE. Once my schedule settles down, I'm going back on SARMS-S4 @ 50 mg/day for 5 days on and two days off for at least six weeks and maybe up to eight or ten.

This is going to sound crazy, but I professionally do better when I'm on a restricted calorie diet and mildly supressed. For some reason, I can stay mentally on cue longer and I'm less distracted. When restricted and slightly supressed instead of crashing around 6:00 pm and spending the evening watching news and surfing EF, I'm more inclinded to read a book or even get more job-related work done. I'm going to test this again soon.

And what's your testosterone now? I am curious about mine. It's been 3 1/2 weeks since I stopped Anavar and started to take S-4. I add that my testosterone was virtually zero then (11,25 ng/dl).

I was surprised that after several weeks of stagnation, I made several personal bests during the 1st week post-cycle. I thought that this PCT with S-4 would be fine, and it was really fine...the first two weeks. But during the 3rd week, I suddenly started to fall down, and this week, it seems that it even accelerated and not only my strength, but even my body weight falls down.

Since the applicator was crappy, I didn't know, how much S-4 I was actually taking; now it turns out that it was only 15-20 mg/day. That's why I raised the dose up to 25-30 mg/day one week ago, but it obviously didn't help, which is curious and unpleasant. Even 10 mg Anavar can easily prevent muscle loss in me, but S-4 can't? On Tuesday 16th, I will again check my blood values.

 

[truckdaddy]

great thread!

 

[mrplunkey]

And what's your testosterone now? I am curious about mine. It's been 3 1/2 weeks since I stopped Anavar and started to take S-4. I add that my testosterone was virtually zero then (11,25 ng/dl).

I was surprised that after several weeks of stagnation, I made several personal bests during the 1st week post-cycle. I thought that this PCT with S-4 would be fine, and it was really fine...the first two weeks. But during the 3rd week, I suddenly started to fall down, and this week, it seems that it even accelerated and not only my strength, but even my body weight falls down.

Since the applicator was crappy, I didn't know, how much S-4 I was actually taking; now it turns out that it was only 15-20 mg/day. That's why I raised the dose up to 25-30 mg/day one week ago, but it obviously didn't help, which is curious and unpleasant. Even 10 mg Anavar can easily prevent muscle loss in me, but S-4 can't? On Tuesday 16th, I will again check my blood values.

I need to get more blood work done. I've been traveling so much that I have no idea where it will be. The HCG did get my appetite going like gangbusters but I haven't really taken on body weight or fat.

 

[ChemWiz]

I need to get more blood work done. I've been traveling so much that I have no idea where it will be. The HCG did get my appetite going like gangbusters but I haven't really taken on body weight or fat.

any updates?

 

[mrplunkey]

any updates?

I'm hanging in there. I stopped HCG and I'm almost certain my natural test is back to normal.

I need to get bloodwork done soon.

 

[EliteFitnessGuy]

I just got my blood tests.

5th February (after an 8-week Anavar cycle):
HDL: 0.51 mmol/l 1-2.1 *(---)
LDL: 5.48 mmol/l 1.2-3 (---)*
LDL:HDL 10.75:1
Testosterone total: 11.25 ng/dl 285-800 *(---)
ALT: 0.76 ukat/l 0.05-0.85 (-*-)
AST: 0.75 ukat/l 0.05-0.89 (-*-)

15th March (after 5 1/2 weeks, and after 4 1/2 weeks of taking S-4, 15-30 mg/day):
HDL: 0.68 mmol/l
LDL: 3.11 mmol/l
LDL:HDL 4.57:1
Testosterone total: 132.12 ng/dl
ALT: 0.46 ukat/l
AST: 0.75 ukat/l

The cholesterol values improve quite rapidly, I am actually below the "lower risk ratio" 5:1 already, and I am heading towards the "desirable optimal ratio" 3,5:1. I don't know, what are my normal values, however.

The AST values still don't return to my normal level, but they are within the normal range.

My testosterone is nevertheless still very low, although nearly 12-times higher than last time. This is disappointing, because I already felt fine this weekend. On Sunday, I had a heavy training and maybe my test subsequently decreased a bit. In any case, I seriously consider using HCG, because this pace is too slow. On the other hand, it is known that the initial improvement of testosterone levels after a long cycle is slow.

The raising of my S-4 dosage from ca. 15 mg/day to 30 mg/day didn't bring anything spectacular, although the fall of my body weight stopped and it seems that I basically keep my strength performances during the last week.

 

[mrplunkey]

I just got my blood tests.

5th February (after an 8-week Anavar cycle):
HDL: 0.51 mmol/l 1-2.1 *(---)
LDL: 5.48 mmol/l 1.2-3 (---)*
LDL:HDL 10.75:1
Testosterone total: 11.25 ng/dl 285-800 *(---)
ALT: 0.76 ukat/l 0.05-0.85 (-*-)
AST: 0.75 ukat/l 0.05-0.89 (-*-)

15th March (after 5 1/2 weeks, and after 4 1/2 weeks of taking S-4, 15-30 mg/day):
HDL: 0.68 mmol/l
LDL: 3.11 mmol/l
LDL:HDL 4.57:1
Testosterone total: 132.12 ng/dl
ALT: 0.46 ukat/l
AST: 0.75 ukat/l

The cholesterol values improve quite rapidly, I am actually below the "lower risk ratio" 5:1 already, and I am heading towards the "desirable optimal ratio" 3,5:1. I don't know, what are my normal values, however.

The AST values still don't return to my normal level, but they are within the normal range.

My testosterone is nevertheless still very low, although nearly 12-times higher than last time. This is disappointing, because I already felt fine this weekend. On Sunday, I had a heavy training and maybe the test subsequently decreased a bit. In any case, I seriously consider using HCG, because this pace is too slow. On the other hand, it is known that the initial improvement of testosterone levels after a long cycle is slow.

This is consistent with my results. You do recover testosterone on SARMS-S4, but it may be a little more slowly than on pure HCG.

I've done HCG now and need to get more bloodwork done. Then I'm going to do a pure 50 mg/day sarms-s4 cycle and see what it does to my test levels.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

Its probably recovering SLOWLY because SARMS is lightly suppressive and is slowing the process as many of us including the medical studies have been saying all along SARMS is NOT a PCT drug no matter how many GOOD BROS want to find a magical use for it.

-Legacy

 

[ChemWiz]

Its probably recovering SLOWLY because SARMS is lightly suppressive and is slowing the process as many of us including the medical studies have been saying all along SARMS is NOT a PCT drug no matter how many GOOD BROS want to find a magical use for it.

-Legacy

The fact he is recovering while on s4 shows that is not suppressive, i think it is good in PCT. These guys just came of cycle and there test levels are rising.

That is a good thing.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

The fact he is recovering while on s4 shows that is not suppressive, i think it is good in PCT. These guys just came of cycle and there test levels are rising.

That is a good thing.

Faulty reasoning, just because SARMS isnt AS suppressive as the LAST compound, the fact that it is recovering at a much slower rate means something is SLOWING it results, which one could assume would be a LIGHTLY suppressive compound, such as SARMS which is making its hard or impossible to recover 100%.

-Legacy

 

[EliteFitnessGuy]

The fact he is recovering while on s4 shows that is not suppressive, i think it is good in PCT. These guys just came of cycle and there test levels are rising.

That is a good thing.

One should take into consideration that after 2 months on Anavar I was practically 100% suppressed. This is like coming off a Deca cycle. Obviously, S-4 helps, because normally I would have already lost all my gains at this time. It's unpleasant that my initial dosage was (unintentionally) too low and that I was experiencing problems during the 3rd week. The regeneration rate of my testosterone may have been slowed, but I can't really say, because I have never measured my testosterone before, after my previous two cycles.

Sure, the combination of S-4 with a testosterone boosting stuff (HCG or at least exemestane) would be the best solution. I seriously consider ordering HCG, because my S-4 bottle is nearly half-empty, and I will need some S-4 for my next PCT.

 

[ChemWiz]

Faulty reasoning, just because SARMS isnt AS suppressive as the LAST compound, the fact that it is recovering at a much slower rate means something is SLOWING it results, which one could assume would be a LIGHTLY suppressive compound, such as SARMS which is making its hard or impossible to recover 100%.

-Legacy

Thats where we have to part ways, if he was on 8 weeks of anavar, he was totally shut down. If his test levels are rising on the s4.....well, that point to not suppressive.

To each his own. i will be using sarms in all my PCT.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

Thats where we have to part ways, if he was on 8 weeks of anavar, he was totally shut down. If his test levels are rising on the s4.....well, that point to not suppressive.

To each his own. i will be using sarms in all my PCT.

All medical studies state SARMS is suppressive (mildly), people are recovering at a MUCH slower rate and not getting back to 100%, how many more studies have to be done before people stop using SARMS in PCT.

People bash ROSS for his old "use steroids for pct" post but now people are fine using, what all signs point to as a suppressive compound for pct...Guess people arent worried about the documented facts anymore and only the "feelings and opinions" of people. If that was the case I should have made my first cycle "750mg test, Tren, A-bombs" because one bro at the gym "had zero sides" and said it was "completely safe". I'll stick with the medical journals we have so far and save the bro-ology for a later time, but I wish everyone a much speedier and full recovery that is using sarms pct. Because if the SARMS they are using is REAL, all medical reports state they should have light suppression.

-Legacy

 

[truckdaddy]

Im a big fan of Legacys post, but I must respectfully disagree.

I have used anavar and tbol and been fully suppressed. These are what some people consider mildly suppressive compounds. After 5 weeks on anavar I am FULLY shut down. I know my body and when im shutdown and when Im not.

I have had NO suppression while on sarms at 50mgs ed and it looks like the blood tests are backing this up. Hell, the guy that started this thread was using closer to 100mgs ed and his levels were rising. Their test levels are going to be moving slower back up anyway when coming off a long test cycle. If the SARMs was suppressing them, they would not be rising at all. If your concerned, toss in a OTC test booster, but sarms at 50mgs ed will not suppress you.

that's my opinion. I have ran five or six, 4 week sarms cycles.....no suppression.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

Keep in mind guys, its dose dependent as well, so a 180lb guy may be suppressed more than a 225lb guy. 36mg was considered a high dose and the negative effects outweighed the positive gains in all medical studies when converted to a dose for a 200lb guy. That's all the info that has been documented in studies of S4, there are others that have actually shown better muscle and bone growth than s4, but we arent even using those for testing, we are using one that showed less positive effects on muscle and bone growth than even other sarms, Im just sayin, be careful because the ONLY medically documented info we have on this stuff contradicts what guys are "feeling". Just dont get comfortable till all the facts are in and can be more closely studied in controlled environments

-Legacy

 

[metalfujimi]

Keep in mind guys, its dose dependent as well, so a 180lb guy may be suppressed more than a 225lb guy. 36mg was considered a high dose and the negative effects outweighed the positive gains in all medical studies when converted to a dose for a 200lb guy. That's all the info that has been documented in studies of S4, there are others that have actually shown better muscle and bone growth than s4, but we arent even using those for testing, we are using one that showed less positive effects on muscle and bone growth than even other sarms, Im just sayin, be careful because the ONLY medically documented info we have on this stuff contradicts what guys are "feeling". Just dont get comfortable till all the facts are in and can be more closely studied in controlled environments

-Legacy

You have a valid point, but how can you prove that Sarms S4 are even slightly suppressive when bloodwork shows peoples test levels actually rising during PCT? If S4 was slightly suppressive, wouldnt the test levels not be rising? Also, has anyone ran Sarms by itself, with blood work before to show initial levels, and bloodwork during to see if they have dropped at all? this would help the discussion alot

 

[truckdaddy]

You have a valid point, but how can you prove that Sarms S4 are even slightly suppressive when bloodwork shows peoples test levels actually rising during PCT? If S4 was slightly suppressive, wouldnt the test levels not be rising? Also, has anyone ran Sarms by itself, with blood work before to show initial levels, and bloodwork during to see if they have dropped at all? this would help the discussion alot

This is what im saying!

yes, a guy at OLM ran it alone and claims to have no changes in hid free test levels.

 

[azntomahawk]

I think I would rather be safe than sorry and atleast wait till after PCT to start my sarms.

 

[metalfujimi]

I think I would rather be safe than sorry and atleast wait till after PCT to start my sarms.

yes, but one of the main proposed uses of Sarms was to use during PCT and not lose gains from the cycle.

 

[mrplunkey]

yes, but one of the main proposed uses of Sarms was to use during PCT and not lose gains from the cycle.

Next time, I'm going to cycle 8 weeks, do a full PCT, take four weeks off, then immediately do a 6-8 week SARMS-S4 cycle.

Looking back, I should have waited more than 24 hours from my last HCG shot to my first SARMS-S4 dose.

 

[sion]

yes, but one of the main proposed uses of Sarms was to use during PCT and not lose gains from the cycle.

you are making sense but the point is without sarms your test would bounce back more quickly to normal levels.With sarms seems it takes a lot longer.Pct is important to restore hormonal balance its not just about keeping gains.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

My question is are they JUST using sarms to recover or are they using other drugs as well, couldnt the other drugs just be stronger at restoring the person than sarms is to suppressing them? Thus the slower than normal recovery, the main drugs are doing their job but the sarms is slowing its process by lightly diminishing the work of the main pct drugs?...Just a working theory...I could be horribly wrong, remember Im on SARMS currently and I would love for this to be a miracle drug, just the medical findings are leading me away from the wonder drug in PCT, but I will more than happy admittedly be wrong when we get solid proof either way. Just playing devils advocate...

-Legacy

 

[metalfujimi]

Next time, I'm going to cycle 8 weeks, do a full PCT, take four weeks off, then immediately do a 6-8 week SARMS-S4 cycle.

Looking back, I should have waited more than 24 hours from my last HCG shot to my first SARMS-S4 dose.

why no Sarms during PCT?

 

[truckdaddy]

My question is are they JUST using sarms to recover or are they using other drugs as well, couldnt the other drugs just be stronger at restoring the person than sarms is to suppressing them? Thus the slower than normal recovery, the main drugs are doing their job but the sarms is slowing its process by lightly diminishing the work of the main pct drugs?...Just a working theory...I could be horribly wrong, remember Im on SARMS currently and I would love for this to be a miracle drug, just the medical findings are leading me away from the wonder drug in PCT, but I will more than happy admittedly be wrong when we get solid proof either way. Just playing devils advocate...

-Legacy

I disagree, if the sarms was suppressing, nolva or anything else is not going to let the test levels go back to normal. I think LOW dose sarms is PERFECT for PCT.

But yes, someone on SARMs alone should get blood-work. I would I got a half empty bottle I would donate if someone wanted to do it.

 

[DJLegacy2k1]

I disagree, if the sarms was suppressing, nolva or anything else is not going to let the test levels go back to normal. I think LOW dose sarms is PERFECT for PCT.

But yes, someone on SARMs alone should get blood-work. I would I got a half empty bottle I would donate if someone wanted to do it.

Isn't the issue with the last user posting here about their pct talking about how they are recovering but extremely slowly, they havent "recovered" only slightly improved, would be the argument. Until they reach 100% without needing more PCT drugs than normal we can't call it a success.

-Legacy

 

[mrplunkey]

why no Sarms during PCT?

I should have done true PCT where I let myself recover. I took sarms immediately after my last PCT shot and I think it slowed my recovery.

In all fairness, I'm giddy with the end result. I'm 239 lbs now, which means I can play full-court basketball two days a week without beating myself to death. I got 265 military (with back support) yesterday very cleanly as well, so while my numbers aren't at my all-time highs, they are decent enough that I'm not embarassed in the gym.

Good times.

 

[truckdaddy]

Isn't the issue with the last user posting here about their pct talking about how they are recovering but extremely slowly, they havent "recovered" only slightly improved, would be the argument. Until they reach 100% without needing more PCT drugs than normal we can't call it a success.

-Legacy

but they are "recovering"!!! and they are "recovering" on SARMS, and mrplunkey, the guy that started this thread is over 40(dude is jacked btw) So take that into mind. I would think a younger man would recover even faster.

Full recovery form a real cycle takes more than 3-4 weeks.

 

[mrplunkey]

but they are "recovering"!!! and they are "recovering" on SARMS, and mrplunkey, the guy that started this thread is over 40(dude is jacked btw) So take that into mind. I would think a younger man would recover even faster.

Full recovery form a real cycle takes more than 3-4 weeks.

Are you implying I'm old???? WTF????

(yeah, I'm older than dirt)

I normally recover fairly quickly and I do believe SARMS-S4 slowed it down a little bit. But I'm also notorious for 6-week post-cycle crashes and I'm 100% convinced SARMS-S4 buffered that crash in a huge way.

 

[metalfujimi]

Are you implying I'm old???? WTF????

(yeah, I'm older than dirt)

I normally recover fairly quickly and I do believe SARMS-S4 slowed it down a little bit. But I'm also notorious for 6-week post-cycle crashes and I'm 100% convinced SARMS-S4 buffered that crash in a huge way.

I would believe that the benefits of keeping gains would be worth a little slower recovery. would you agree?

 

[mrplunkey]

I would believe that the benefits of keeping gains would be worth a little slower recovery. would you agree?

Yup. That's why I'm giddy.

With my current weight/power ratio, I'm seriously thinking about doing some plyometrics for a few weeks and getting my dunk back. A youtube video of a 6'3" (almost) guy who is 42 years old dunking would be badass.

 

[truckdaddy]

I would believe that the benefits of keeping gains would be worth a little slower recovery. would you agree?

I would, and he ran a high dose, keep it at 50mg and I dont think you would see any issues regarding recovery.

great thread!

 

[EliteFitnessGuy]

I would, and he ran a high dose, keep it at 50mg and I dont think you would see any issues regarding recovery.

great thread!

I know people, who ran S-4 at 100 mg/day, and after PCT with Clomid and Tamoxifen, their testosterone was higher than before the cycle...

http://forums./showthread.php?t=402574&page=7

So I think that the suppression really isn't anyhow serious, even at 100 mg/day. In fact, I already know three cases of "researchers", who used 100 mg/day, and their suppression was always around 50%.

 

[ChemWiz]

I know people, who ran S-4 at 100 mg/day, and after PCT with Clomid and Tamoxifen, their testosterone was higher than before the cycle...

http://forums./showthread.php?t=402574&page=7

So I think that the suppression really isn't anyhow serious, even at 100 mg/day. In fact, I already know three cases of "researchers", who used 100 mg/day, and their suppression was always around 50%.

It will be part of my regular PCT at 50mgs ed from now on.

 

[EliteFitnessGuy]

It seems that 25-30 mg S-4/day is necessary to keep gains in me. Since the downfall during the 3rd-4th week (when I took only 15-20 mg/day) I have kept everything. I just run my 6th week of PCT (only with S-4) since the end of the Anavar cycle. The other side of the story is that this sort of PCT becomes a bit expensive. Furthermore, my eyesight is getting worse. I thought over using HCG, but its benefit during PCT is debatable, and I would have to use some Nolva with it anyway, so I will rather buy only Nolva and I will run it for at least 3 weeks.

To sum it up, my next PCT will consist of S-4, 10 drops (25-30 mg) ED for the first 3-4 weeks that are most critical. Otherwise I will simultaneously run Nolva or exemestane (or both), and I will stop it only when my endogenous testosterone levels are O.K.

Based on my good experience with Anavar, I probably won't order any other steroids in the near future (as I originally planned). The liver toxicity is negligible and cholesterol returns to normal levels very quickly, so I think it will be safe to run short 6-week cycles, twice a year, until I consume all my stores (18 grams).

 

[EliteFitnessGuy]

Further news from my S-4 research: After I got the blood results on 15th March, I lowered my daily dose from 12 drops (ca. 35 mg) to 10 drops (30 mg) to help my body in recovering. Yet it turned out to be a big mistake. 30 mg/day is obviously too little to keep my gains in the horizon of several weeks. I started to fall down again. The strength loses are very slow, but still disturbing. Before my first experience with S-4 I supposed that 30 mg/day would be more than enough for keeping gains, and that it could be even slightly anabolic. But S-4 is no miracle drug, apparently, and my patience is over. Since my bottle is already half-empty anyway, I decided to increase my dosage up to 15 drops (45 mg/day) and run it for at least 2 weeks. In mid-April, I will check my testosterone levels again.

 

[mrplunkey]

Further news from my S-4 research: After I got the blood results on 15th March, I lowered my daily dose from 12 drops (ca. 35 mg) to 10 drops (30 mg) to help my body in recovering. Yet it turned out to be a big mistake. 30 mg/day is obviously too little to keep my gains in the horizon of several weeks. I started to fall down again. The strength loses are very slow, but still disturbing. Before my first experience with S-4 I supposed that 30 mg/day would be more than enough for keeping gains, and that it could be even slightly anabolic. But S-4 is no miracle drug, apparently, and my patience is over. Since my bottle is already half-empty anyway, I decided to increase my dosage up to 15 drops (45 mg/day) and run it for at least 2 weeks. In mid-April, I will check my testosterone levels again.

I'm not surprised. 80 mg/day was too much for me but I really do think I needed at least 50 mg/day. It's just more dose-sensitive than we're used to.

 

[truckdaddy]

I'm not surprised. 80 mg/day was too much for me but I really do think I needed at least 50 mg/day. It's just more dose-sensitive than we're used to.

I like the 50mg-60mg range.

I would run it at 100mg if it wasn't for the vision issues.

 

[ChemWiz]

I'm not surprised. 80 mg/day was too much for me but I really do think I needed at least 50 mg/day. It's just more dose-sensitive than we're used to.

Im going to run 60mgs a day on this next cutter.

 

[mrplunkey]

Im going to run 60mgs a day on this next cutter.

I'm back on sarms-s4. Here's my game plan:

M-F: 4.8 iu hgh/day; 50 mg sarms
Sat: 1000 units hcg
Sunday: off

going to try that for 6-8 weeks, then get bloodwork done.

 

[ChemWiz]

I'm back on sarms-s4. Here's my game plan:

M-F: 4.8 iu hgh/day; 50 mg sarms
Sat: 1000 units hcg
Sunday: off

going to try that for 6-8 weeks, then get bloodwork done.

I like that, I would run the HGH every other day. Lots of good research regarding this.

Cant wait to get back on SARMs,.......

 

[mrplunkey]

I like that, I would run the HGH every other day. Lots of good research regarding this.

Cant wait to get back on SARMs,.......

I sort-of do that. If I miss a shot or two (I normally take two shots of 2.4 units/each per day), I just skip them. So I probably average about 60-65% of 4.8IU's /day.

 

[EliteFitnessGuy]

I sort-of do that. If I miss a shot or two (I normally take two shots of 2.4 units/each per day), I just skip them. So I probably average about 60-65% of 4.8IU's /day.

I would be really curious about your testosterone levels.

I have been already struggling with S-4 for 2 months of my ultra-long PCT. As I already said, I felt nothing at low doses 15-35 mg/day. And when I used less than 35 mg/day, my strength gained during my Anavar cycle slowly decreased. Hence I raised the dosage to 45 mg/day on 24th March, but after one week I again felt nothing. Being irritated by it, I started to doubt, if the bottle actually contains real S-4. Nevertheless, I decided to give it "the last chance", and on 1st April, I further raised the dose up to 50 mg/day. On Saturday, 3rd April, it finally started to work! My terrible fatigue, accumulated during the last weeks of a "low-testosterone regime", disappeared virtually overnight, and although I haven't noticed any remarkable strength increase so far, I feel really great, better than ever before on steroids. If I were 100% sure that it would cause no harm to me, I would take it permanently.

Unfortunately, my bottle is almost empty already. I planned to check my blood values on 15th April, when I go to the town, because I wanted to see to what a degree 50 mg/day can slow down my recovery, but I am afraid that at 50 mg/day, I will consume it before this date. Furthermore, I want to buy some letrozole from my friend (Note: You still may not be aware of it, but letrozole is the strongest PCT drug available!) and due to its long half-life, I must use it as soon as possible. This could potentially distort my blood work, of course, because letrozole can routinely increase testosterone levels by +220%.

However, based on my experience with S-4, I have developed a new PCT plan: I will use S-4 at 40 mg/day for the first 3-4 weeks of my PCT, simultaneously with letrozole. And I will run letrozole for additional 4 weeks to ensure complete testosterone recovery. In theory, I should not lose anything of my gains. Using any anti-estrogen without S-4 makes no sense, because my post-cycle testosterone suppression is obviously so large that even 200% increase wouldn't do anything.

 

[truckdaddy]

I would be really curious about your testosterone levels.

I have been already struggling with S-4 for 2 months of my ultra-long PCT. As I already said, I felt nothing at low doses 15-35 mg/day. And when I used less than 35 mg/day, my strength gained during my Anavar cycle slowly decreased. Hence I raised the dosage to 45 mg/day on 24th March, but after one week I again felt nothing. Being irritated by it, I started to doubt, if the bottle actually contains real S-4. Nevertheless, I decided to give it "the last chance", and on 1st April, I further raised the dose up to 50 mg/day. On Saturday, 3rd April, it finally started to work! My terrible fatigue, accumulated during the last weeks of a "low-testosterone regime", disappeared virtually overnight, and although I haven't noticed any remarkable strength increase so far, I feel really great, better than ever before on steroids. If I were 100% sure that it would cause no harm to me, I would take it permanently.

Unfortunately, my bottle is almost empty already. I planned to check my blood values on 15th April, when I go to the town, because I wanted to see to what a degree 50 mg/day can slow down my recovery, but I am afraid that at 50 mg/day, I will consume it before this date. Furthermore, I want to buy some letrozole from my friend (Note: You still may not be aware of it, but letrozole is the strongest PCT drug available!) and due to its long half-life, I must use it as soon as possible. This could potentially distort my blood work, of course, because letrozole can routinely increase testosterone levels by +220%.

However, based on my experience with S-4, I have developed a new PCT plan: I will use S-4 at 40 mg/day for the first 3-4 weeks of my PCT, simultaneously with letrozole. And I will run letrozole for additional 4 weeks to ensure complete testosterone recovery. In theory, I should not lose anything of my gains. Using any anti-estrogen without S-4 makes no sense, because my post-cycle testosterone suppression is obviously so large that even 200% increase wouldn't do anything.

very cool, please keep us updated on how that works for you.

 

[EliteFitnessGuy]

Update: After 8 days on 50 mg/day, I must correct my hasty opinion on S-4 (Well, it was also influenced by the fact that I didn't intend to take high doses from the beginning, because I wanted to use it during PCT). It is a great stuff - at least for me, because from certain reasons, I suffer from chronic fatigue (and this is also the reason, why I decided for a regular steroid use two years ago). To my surprise, steroids didn't do much for me in this regard. My strength increased - sometimes dramatically -, but my overal physical state during cycles didn't improve markedly, I was very vulnerable to overtraining like before and I could increase my limited training loads only very slightly.

Apparently, S-4 works very differently, and although I don't like emotional exaggerations, I don't hesisate to say that at least for the purpose of regeneration and endurance, S-4 is a bomb. Today I broke my personal bests (number of reps) with lighter loads on dead-lift and bent-over rows, and after finishing the training, I felt like if I didn't train at all. I was not even sweated. In short, I feel like a Stakhanovite. :-D

I wish the clinical tests of Ostarine were finished soon. I would like to take some SARMs for longer periods of time, but I don't want to risk my health.

 

[truckdaddy]

Update: After 8 days on 50 mg/day, I must correct my hasty opinion on S-4 (Well, it was also influenced by the fact that I didn't intend to take high doses from the beginning, because I wanted to use it during PCT). It is a great stuff - at least for me, because from certain reasons, I suffer from chronic fatigue (and this is also the reason, why I decided for a regular steroid use two years ago). To my surprise, steroids didn't do much for me in this regard. My strength increased - sometimes dramatically -, but my overal physical state during cycles didn't improve markedly, I was very vulnerable to overtraining like before and I could increase my limited training loads only very slightly.

Apparently, S-4 works very differently, and although I don't like emotional exaggerations, I don't hesisate to say that at least for the purpose of regeneration and endurance, S-4 is a bomb. Today I broke my personal bests (number of reps) with lighter loads on dead-lift and bent-over rows, and after finishing the training, I felt like if I didn't train at all. I was not even sweated. In short, I feel like a Stakhanovite. :-D

I wish the clinical tests of Ostarine were finished soon. I would like to take some SARMs for longer periods of time, but I don't want to risk my health.

I have been trying to tell people this all along!

 

[EliteFitnessGuy]

I just got my blood tests.

5th February (after an 8-week Anavar cycle):
HDL: 0.51 mmol/l 1-2.1 *(---)
LDL: 5.48 mmol/l 1.2-3 (---)*
LDL:HDL 10.75:1
Testosterone total: 11.25 ng/dl 285-800 *(---)
ALT: 0.76 ukat/l 0.05-0.85 (-*-)
AST: 0.75 ukat/l 0.05-0.89 (-*-)

15th March (after 5 1/2 weeks, and after 4 1/2 weeks of taking S-4, 15-30 mg/day):
HDL: 0.68 mmol/l
LDL: 3.11 mmol/l
LDL:HDL 4.57:1
Testosterone total: 132.12 ng/dl
ALT: 0.46 ukat/l
AST: 0.75 ukat/l

The cholesterol values improve quite rapidly, I am actually below the "lower risk ratio" 5:1 already, and I am heading towards the "desirable optimal ratio" 3,5:1. I don't know, what are my normal values, however.

The AST values still don't return to my normal level, but they are within the normal range.

My testosterone is nevertheless still very low, although nearly 12-times higher than last time. This is disappointing, because I already felt fine this weekend. On Sunday, I had a heavy training and maybe my test subsequently decreased a bit. In any case, I seriously consider using HCG, because this pace is too slow. On the other hand, it is known that the initial improvement of testosterone levels after a long cycle is slow.

The raising of my S-4 dosage from ca. 15 mg/day to 30 mg/day didn't bring anything spectacular, although the fall of my body weight stopped and it seems that I basically keep my strength performances during the last week.

My third blood test, 5th May 2010:
S-AST 0.75 ukat/l 0.05-0.89 (-*-)
S-LDLcholesterol 2.61 mmol/l 1.2-3 (-*-)
S-HDLcholesterol 0.88 mmol/l 1-2.1 *(---)
S-Testosteron 14.72 nmol/l 9.9-27.8 (-*-)x28,843=424,57 ng/dl

Before I comment it, I will recapitulate my steroid and PCT program:

Anavar cycle between 6th December 2009-14th February 2010
I took as much as 80 mg/day, but about 60 mg/day on the average, and finished on 6 mg/day on 14th February.

The first blood test on 5th February (when I was taking only 10 mg/day) was shocking - virtually zero testosterone (11,25 ng/dl).

PCT on S-4
I started to take S-4 on 10th February, together with a small dose of Anavar. Since the applicator was crappy, I didn't know, how much S-4 I was actually taking. I think it was only 15-20 mg/day. As a result, my strength and body weight slowly started to fall down. My patience was over on 11th March, and I began to estimate the dosage of S-4 in drops (1 drop=ca. 3 ml/3 mg). 12 drops (ca. 36 mg/day) finally stopped my strength loses, but I didn't feel well anyway. I felt no marked effect and I even doubted, if the bottle contained real S-4.

2nd bloodtest on 15th March
Despite taking S-4, my testosterone increased to 132,12 ng/dl. But this value was still low. After several days of experimenting with a lower dosage of S-4, my strength again fell a bit and I felt very exhausted. This time I was already very upset and I decided to take a "regular dose" of S-4 (50 mg/day) to get some of my strength gains back.

S-4 mini-cycle: 25th March-15th April
I started at 15 drops (45 mg/day) and later increased the dose up to 50 mg/day. At first, I again noticed nothing, but after one week I felt like if I were resurrected. Curiously, I didn't experience marked strength gains, but my endurance reached...well, as I said elsewhere, "Stakhanovite dimensions".

A final PCT with anastrozole
My S-4 bottle was empty on 16th April 2010, and subsequently I started to take anastrozole powder mixed in sunflower oil (ca. 1 mg/day). My friend originally promised some letrozole to me, which is a much stronger stuff that can increase testosterone levels by +200%, but he couldn't find it. Hence I didn't expect much, and I was even prepared for a sudden crash, but fortunately, nothing of this sort happened. The positive effect of S-4 lasted one more week after finishing the mini-cycle, and although it later disappeared, I still feel well and I even improved some personal bests on certain exercises. Basically, I can say that at worst, my strength is on the level, where it was on 11th March - which means that at least 90% of my strength gains have been preserved. Although I have kept only about 30% of my size gains from the Anavar cycle, the state of my strength is much more important for me, because it is a real reflexion of my pure muscle gains.

Actually only yesterday's training of benchpress was disturbing and this is why I decided for another bloodtest. Fortunately, anastrozole works and the additional month on S-4 (15th March-15th April) obviously didn't interefere with testosterone recovery. Although the value of 424,57 ng/dl is not especially high, it is already in the "safe range". However, if I take into consideration that anastrozole increases testosterone roughly by +60%, my "natural" testosterone is still below 300 ng/dl. Hence I should take it for several additional weeks. To my surprise, cholesterol is very good (LDL:HDL slightly below 3:1).

I admit that my PCT was somewhat chaotic, but this was a price that I paid for my first experience with S-4. I didn't know, how much I must take to prevent strength/muscle loss, not speaking about its effect on testosterone regeneration, about which I had absolutely no clue.

 

[truckdaddy]

My third blood test, 5th May 2010:
S-AST 0.75 ukat/l 0.05-0.89 (-*-)
S-LDLcholesterol 2.61 mmol/l 1.2-3 (-*-)
S-HDLcholesterol 0.88 mmol/l 1-2.1 *(---)
S-Testosteron 14.72 nmol/l 9.9-27.8 (-*-)x28,843=424,57 ng/dl

Before I comment it, I will recapitulate my steroid and PCT program:

Anavar cycle between 6th December 2009-14th February 2010
I took as much as 80 mg/day, but about 60 mg/day on the average, and finished on 6 mg/day on 14th February.

The first blood test on 5th February (when I was taking only 10 mg/day) was shocking - virtually zero testosterone (11,25 ng/dl).

PCT on S-4
I started to take S-4 on 10th February, together with a small dose of Anavar. Since the applicator was crappy, I didn't know, how much S-4 I was actually taking. I think it was only 15-20 mg/day. As a result, my strength and body weight slowly started to fall down. My patience was over on 11th March, and I began to estimate the dosage of S-4 in drops (1 drop=ca. 3 ml/3 mg). 12 drops (ca. 36 mg/day) finally stopped my strength loses, but I didn't feel well anyway. I felt no marked effect and I even doubted, if the bottle contained real S-4.

2nd bloodtest on 15th March
Despite taking S-4, my testosterone increased to 132,12 ng/dl. But this value was still low. After several days of experimenting with a lower dosage of S-4, my strength again fell a bit and I felt very exhausted. This time I was already very upset and I decided to take a "regular dose" of S-4 (50 mg/day) to get some of my strength gains back.

S-4 mini-cycle: 25th March-15th April
I started at 15 drops (45 mg/day) and later increased the dose up to 50 mg/day. At first, I again noticed nothing, but after one week I felt like if I were resurrected. Curiously, I didn't experience marked strength gains, but my endurance reached...well, as I said elsewhere, "Stakhanovite dimensions".

A final PCT with anastrozole
My S-4 bottle was empty on 16th April 2010, and subsequently I started to take anastrozole powder mixed in sunflower oil (ca. 1 mg/day). My friend originally promised some letrozole to me, which is a much stronger stuff that can increase testosterone levels by +200%, but he couldn't find it. Hence I didn't expect much, and I was even prepared for a sudden crash, but fortunately, nothing of this sort happened. The positive effect of S-4 lasted one more week after finishing the mini-cycle, and although it later disappeared, I still feel well and I even improved some personal bests on certain exercises. Basically, I can say that at worst, my strength is on the level, where it was on 11th March - which means that at least 90% of my strength gains have been preserved. Although I have kept only about 30% of my size gains from the Anavar cycle, the state of my strength is much more important for me, because it is a real reflexion of my pure muscle gains.

Actually only yesterday's training of benchpress was disturbing and this is why I decided for another bloodtest. Fortunately, anastrozole works and the additional month on S-4 (15th March-15th April) obviously didn't interefere with testosterone recovery. Although the value of 424,57 ng/dl is not especially high, it is already in the "safe range". However, if I take into consideration that anastrozole increases testosterone roughly by +60%, my "natural" testosterone is still below 300 ng/dl. Hence I should take it for several additional weeks. To my surprise, cholesterol is very good (LDL:HDL slightly below 3:1).

I admit that my PCT was somewhat chaotic, but this was a price that I paid for my first experience with S-4. I didn't know, how much I must take to prevent strength/muscle loss, not speaking about its effect on testosterone regeneration, about which I had absolutely no clue.

I have been trying to tell people this! sarms works in PCT, ab bridge and a stand alone. You will fully recover during PCT while on sarms.

I ran sarms 4 or 5 times at doses of 50mg-100mgs last year with no PCT. I just had my test levels checked with a saliva test and they can back normal.

I started sarms again on the 14th of this month at 50mgs ed and I will be getting them checked again as soon as I get off. Sarms does not suppress.

Thanks for the great post man. Good info

 

[EliteFitnessGuy]

I basically agree with you, although I suspect that S-4 can slow down the process of recovery. Nevertheless, it is a great stuff, when you use it during the first weeks post-cycle. That's the most important period, because any PCT stuff may not be sufficient to prevent strength/muscle crash. My next PCT will consist of S-4 at 40-50 mg/day for 4 weeks, followed by 4-6 weeks on letrozole. In theory, this plan should keep virtually all gains (In praxis, I am more realistic - but I'll see.)

Although 425 ng/dl is not a high testosterone level, anastrozole can markedly elevate free testosterone. Thus, my active free testostorone may be far higher than in an ordinary man with this testosterone concentration. This could explain my good performance on the majority of exercises during the last 3 weeks. Nevertheless, today I repeated my yesterday's unfinished training of chest and shoulders, and I was very disappointed. It was a heavy blow to my self-confidence and optimistic mood after my weekend's personal bests in pull-ups with weights. It is very strange, however. On bench press, I can barely lift a weight, with which I did 4 reps during the cycle, but subsequently I did single-arm incline press with a relatively lighter load and I achieved my personal best in the number of reps. Similarly, on dumbbell rows I can now make more reps with a lighter load than during the cycle, but I am unable to lift my usual "heavy load" properly. Neural fatigue, perhaps?

 

[redsamurai]

because you're blowing out your CNS. You can be on anythign you want, if your CNS isn't recovered you're not going to lift dick.

 

[Rottman1]

Wow, this S-4 really intrigues me. My question is, will S-4 show up in a drug test, whether its a regular type drug test or one that tests specifically for steroids (i know this is not a steroid) but nontheless. Thanks, the reason I ask is UI am interested but am subjeted to drug tests in my organization. Thanks

 

[ChemWiz]

Wow, this S-4 really intrigues me. My question is, will S-4 show up in a drug test, whether its a regular type drug test or one that tests specifically for steroids (i know this is not a steroid) but nontheless. Thanks, the reason I ask is UI am interested but am subjeted to drug tests in my organization. Thanks

No sir, sarms will not make you test positive for any kind of drug test, WADA style or one that a job may give for recreational drugs.

 

[RADAR]

Wow, this S-4 really intrigues me. My question is, will S-4 show up in a drug test, whether its a regular type drug test or one that tests specifically for steroids (i know this is not a steroid) but nontheless. Thanks, the reason I ask is UI am interested but am subjeted to drug tests in my organization. Thanks

NO! it will not,its an experimental compound ,they would have to know the exact Chemical structure of what they are looking for, and that is highly unlikely.

 

[Rottman1]

Thanks to both radar and chemwiz. Appreciate your time and experience..

 

[the_alcatraz]

Just put it in a gel cap and swallow it.

How do you do that bro?

 

[cdnuts]

How do you do that bro?

Buy some gel caps on line. Size 00 should be fine. Open the cap, put the shit in, close it, swallow it. Voila', no nasty SARMS taste.

 

[George Spellwin]

A new article was added:
SARMS S-4: The Perfect Drug To Use In-Between Anabolic Steroid Cycles?

SARMS S-4 is the latest addition to the anabolic steroid using bodybuilder's arsenal and it’s creating a storm of controversy. It may very well be most significant advancement in muscle development since the invention of Dianabol back in 1956.

Read more...

 

[ChemWiz]

Great SARMs info in this thread

 

[truckdaddy]

Great SARMs info in this thread

one of the best on the site for sure!

Lots of good info here

 

[canadianhitman]

I have some on the way...going to add 30mg/day to the 1ml of test I'm doing while cutting. Felt like I needed a little more 'oomph', but am staying away from orals as I want to make sure my cholesterol is stellar before I do a short run of dbol in the fall...so SARMS S4 seems to fit the bill for that.

 

[truckdaddy]

I have some on the way...going to add 30mg/day to the 1ml of test I'm doing while cutting. Felt like I needed a little more 'oomph', but am staying away from orals as I want to make sure my cholesterol is stellar before I do a short run of dbol in the fall...so SARMS S4 seems to fit the bill for that.

You will like results!

 

[ChemWiz]

I have some on the way...going to add 30mg/day to the 1ml of test I'm doing while cutting. Felt like I needed a little more 'oomph', but am staying away from orals as I want to make sure my cholesterol is stellar before I do a short run of dbol in the fall...so SARMS S4 seems to fit the bill for that.

Sounds good, I would bump to 50mgs a day

 

[ceo]

best SARMS log evar!

 

[ChemWiz]

I agree!

 

[liffalot]

Sounds good, I would bump to 50mgs a day

I second that motion. With one bottle that should last you 60 days which is plenty long to see great results.

 

[ChemWiz]

Gotta bump it to 50mgs bro!

 

[C0LUMB0]

yep...50mg is sweet !

sarmssearch has what you need .....

 

[RickRock13]

yep...50mg is sweet !

sarmssearch has what you need .....

I agree...S4 needs to be ran at 50mg for maximum benefit.

And of course sarmssearch S4 will not steer you wrong! Can't beat the quality of their SARMS!

 

[jarhead1]

I know I'm late, but great log, thanks for the info.

 

[RickRock13]

I've been running Sarmssearch S-4 for a little over a week, and have already shredded up a ton and had no sides at 50mg/day. I will be going up to 70mg starting tomorrow to see how that does. Great stuff stacked with Osta too

 

[liffalot]

I've been running Sarmssearch S-4 for a little over a week, and have already shredded up a ton and had no sides at 50mg/day. I will be going up to 70mg starting tomorrow to see how that does. Great stuff stacked with Osta too

I was the same way. S4 gave me some great immediate results and I ran for almost 2 months 50mg per day every day with no sides until day 58 or so.

Guess it just depends on the person.

 

[IronAwe]

What a fantastic thread. Great info here. Let me add my experience as well.

I took 15mg of Osta for 3 months. Made super awesome gains and fell in love with the product. Infact, put on 20kg's, although this was post surgery and I think a lot of this weight was my body coming back to normal.
Stopped seeing gains a little after 2 months, and stopped the Osta in my 3rd month. After about 2 weeks of no osta, I started to feel depressed, and suspected my test levels were low.
Got my bloods done and sure enough they were down to about 50% of normal. Don't know the actual numbers, this is what the doc told me.
Went back on the osta to stop feeling depressed. This worked, felt fantastic, but still not making any gains, even though training and diet were good.

Now I ordered some S-4 thinking I could stop the osta, and use the s4 instead to let my boys come back. So I have been taking s4 @50mg/day for 5 days now. Stopped the osta 5 days ago when I started the s4. I also bought a natty test booster (bulbine) and have been on that for 5 days as well. Today (fifth day off osta) was the first day I felt crappy again, had a bit of a cry over some not so bad news, but haven't lost any weight or strength.

Infact, I think these may have gone up. My boys actually feel smaller, and my next blood level isn't until April. Interestingly enough though, the shitty depression I get from being suppressed goes away when I take Craze. Craze makes me feel normal and not all shitty and sad and emotional.

So my question to you boys out there, should I stop the S4 and start some pct, or just keep doing what I'm doing and continue the s4 and bulbine? (IronMag Labs - Ultra Male RX) I really want to stay on the S4 to see if my levels come up whilst taking it. If my test levels come back to normal, my plan is to cycle osta and S4 alternating them in 1 month intervals. If my levels do NOT come back up, then I will just do osta 1 month on, 1 month off @15mg/day as everything was normal for the first couple of months on the osta.

 

[training700]

S4 is more suppressive.. not Gonna help

Sent from my DROID3 using EliteFitness

 

[liffalot]

What a fantastic thread. Great info here. Let me add my experience as well.

I took 15mg of Osta for 3 months. Made super awesome gains and fell in love with the product. Infact, put on 20kg's, although this was post surgery and I think a lot of this weight was my body coming back to normal.
Stopped seeing gains a little after 2 months, and stopped the Osta in my 3rd month. After about 2 weeks of no osta, I started to feel depressed, and suspected my test levels were low.
Got my bloods done and sure enough they were down to about 50% of normal. Don't know the actual numbers, this is what the doc told me.
Went back on the osta to stop feeling depressed. This worked, felt fantastic, but still not making any gains, even though training and diet were good.

Now I ordered some S-4 thinking I could stop the osta, and use the s4 instead to let my boys come back. So I have been taking s4 @50mg/day for 5 days now. Stopped the osta 5 days ago when I started the s4. I also bought a natty test booster (bulbine) and have been on that for 5 days as well. Today (fifth day off osta) was the first day I felt crappy again, had a bit of a cry over some not so bad news, but haven't lost any weight or strength.

Infact, I think these may have gone up. My boys actually feel smaller, and my next blood level isn't until April. Interestingly enough though, the shitty depression I get from being suppressed goes away when I take Craze. Craze makes me feel normal and not all shitty and sad and emotional.

So my question to you boys out there, should I stop the S4 and start some pct, or just keep doing what I'm doing and continue the s4 and bulbine? (IronMag Labs - Ultra Male RX) I really want to stay on the S4 to see if my levels come up whilst taking it. If my test levels come back to normal, my plan is to cycle osta and S4 alternating them in 1 month intervals. If my levels do NOT come back up, then I will just do osta 1 month on, 1 month off @15mg/day as everything was normal for the first couple of months on the osta.

Yea like training700 said, S4 wont help youre supression and is actually more suppressive than OSTA.

If I'm going to be perfectly honest with you man, experiencing depression while not on a supplement like this is probably not chemical. Something like SARMS or AAS puts you in such a euphoria of muscle building, losing fat, looking great, etc. that it just cant be matched naturally. Thats the addictive property of it. That said, I guess there could be something chemical about your androgen receptors not being as sensitive and that making you somewhat depressed (operating somewhat opposite of seratonin uptake inhibitors?).

The emotionality is normal as well. Absorbing more androgen is going to cause you to be more emotional just naturally. I remember when I was on S4 I would be driving in the car and a song would come on that I really liked and I would almost cry because of the combination of lyricism and instumental mastery...........not so different from your situation lol.

The reason your boys feel suppressed is probably because they are. S4 at 50mgs for a lot of people is suppressive.....although in my S4 experience, I was horny as a fucking rabbit all the time......so I've no idea about this.

 

[IronAwe]

Yea like training700 said, S4 wont help youre supression and is actually more suppressive than OSTA.

If I'm going to be perfectly honest with you man, experiencing depression while not on a supplement like this is probably not chemical. Something like SARMS or AAS puts you in such a euphoria of muscle building, losing fat, looking great, etc. that it just cant be matched naturally. Thats the addictive property of it. That said, I guess there could be something chemical about your androgen receptors not being as sensitive and that making you somewhat depressed (operating somewhat opposite of seratonin uptake inhibitors?).

The emotionality is normal as well. Absorbing more androgen is going to cause you to be more emotional just naturally. I remember when I was on S4 I would be driving in the car and a song would come on that I really liked and I would almost cry because of the combination of lyricism and instumental mastery...........not so different from your situation lol.

The reason your boys feel suppressed is probably because they are. S4 at 50mgs for a lot of people is suppressive.....although in my S4 experience, I was horny as a fucking rabbit all the time......so I've no idea about this.

Yeah I am definitely suppressed, had my bloods done. Ok, I shall start the pct then. Cheers guys.