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Is everything forgivable?

Seriously speaking, anything can be forgiven, but that's a personal choice. I might choose to forgive someone for something that society says shouldn't be forgiven, and if I do, it's for my own benefit. Grudges and anger take too much energy, and hurt ourselves more than they ever hurt the person you're holding them for. I've forgiven stuff that people think I'm crazy for forgiving, including a really bad situation with a friend of 20 years who attempted things with my wife while he stayed with us. I won't let him be a guest ever again obviously, but I used the energy from any anger and grudge-holding to work on repairing the collateral damage in my marriage, and thankfully this attitude was successful ;-)

There are of course cases where forgiveness is down-right wrong, such as hate. You cannot forgive hatred and acts thereof, as that would allow the person focusing the hatred to take over. A little too thick to write in a forum what exactly I mean, but that's the basics.

Charles
 
kx250rider said:
There are of course cases where forgiveness is down-right wrong, such as hate. You cannot forgive hatred and acts thereof, as that would allow the person focusing the hatred to take over. A little too thick to write in a forum what exactly I mean, but that's the basics.

Charles
Click to expand...

What is an act of hatred? Terrorism? Murder? Isn't forgiveness just refusing to hate someone? I'm not talking about reconciliation but just refusing to hate someone. If you can't forgive hate and those acts, don't you at the core kinda become that person who hurt you, who hates you?
 
kx250rider said:
Seriously speaking, anything can be forgiven, but that's a personal choice. I might choose to forgive someone for something that society says shouldn't be forgiven, and if I do, it's for my own benefit. Grudges and anger take too much energy, and hurt ourselves more than they ever hurt the person you're holding them for. I've forgiven stuff that people think I'm crazy for forgiving, including a really bad situation with a friend of 20 years who attempted things with my wife while he stayed with us. I won't let him be a guest ever again obviously, but I used the energy from any anger and grudge-holding to work on repairing the collateral damage in my marriage, and thankfully this attitude was successful ;-)

There are of course cases where forgiveness is down-right wrong, such as hate. You cannot forgive hatred and acts thereof, as that would allow the person focusing the hatred to take over. A little too thick to write in a forum what exactly I mean, but that's the basics.

Charles
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Going through something personal at moment and need to practice this as you are right, it drains you completely...as it has me. Although I a so called friend do the same with my wife and that is unforgivable and I never will...so wrote him off, gone...good riddence!

from my DROID BIONIC using EliteFitness
 
cindylou said:
What is an act of hatred? Terrorism? Murder? Isn't forgiveness just refusing to hate someone? I'm not talking about reconciliation but just refusing to hate someone. If you can't forgive hate and those acts, don't you at the core kinda become that person who hurt you, who hates you?
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Does surprise buttsecks count?
 
blueta2 said:
You can only know how you would react if it happened to you and I hope it never does.

On that note; seeing that it's Easter, though I am not religious, I am going to let it go and work on forgiveness.
My best friend lost her Mom unexpected last night and when I went to her house seeing her pain, I realized, life is too short to drag "shit" with me from my past.

So far, I've had a great weekend with my sister in town, my awesome boyfriend and my great family, so it's all good. I'm letting it go :-)

Love and Peace all (even you Chris and Plunk)
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Pretty damn positive (no pun intended - teehee) that if I thought I may have contracted HIV, and finally found out I didn't, that I would be relieved and overjoyed.
 
ceo said:
Pretty damn positive (no pun intended - teehee) that if I thought I may have contracted HIV, and finally found out I didn't, that I would be relieved and overjoyed.
Click to expand...

Yes, CEO I'm sure that in that situation where your wife of over a decade cheated on you and contracted HIV, knew about it and slept with you the only emotions you'd have is relief and joy when you found out you didn't get it. That's it. Nothing else. Because emotions, people and situations are not any more complex than that.

Lol @ the pun tho. Tee hee Sorry blu
 
cindylou said:
Yes, CEO I'm sure that in that situation where your wife of over a decade cheated on you and contracted HIV, knew about it and slept with you the only emotions you'd have is relief and joy when you found out you didn't get it. That's it. Nothing else. Because emotions, people and situations are not any more complex than that.

Lol @ the pun tho. Tee hee Sorry blu
Click to expand...

I dont think hes saying he wouldnt be hurt by the betrayal, he's saying since he wouldn't have gotten HIV, there were no lasting effects enough for it to be worth it to him to be upset over 15 years later. It's been over for a decade and a half.
 
AFeedz said:
I dont think hes saying he wouldnt be hurt by the betrayal, he's saying since he wouldn't have gotten HIV, there were no lasting effects enough for it to be worth it to him to be upset over 15 years later. It's been over for a decade and a half.
Click to expand...

Okay, that wasn't what I was getting from his post. I'm reading he would have gotten over it right away (which might be I have no idea how CEO works) just snap your fingers and everything is forgiven. I don't think everyone is really able to do that. However, CEO if you are able to do that then that's great. :heart: means you're a great guy with a forgiving spirit. Just...don't...know..if I believe it...lol. :D hahaha loooooove you CEO
 
Why did you never bring charges against him? It is against the law in Canada to knowingly have unprotected sex when you have HIV/AIDS.

Is everything forgivable yes it but most people don't have the capacity and/or empathy to forgive others that have wronged them. They can't see past there pain and realize the person that inflicted it is much worse off in the end. You hold on to all that shit in your life and guess what you are going to have a pretty miserable existence.
 
smurf2 said:
I dont agree.
I hold onto the resentment and hatred and I don't live a miserable existence at all.
Click to expand...

I don't hold on to any of it and I still live a miserable existence. So...?
 
smurf2 said:
I dont agree.
I hold onto the resentment and hatred and I don't live a miserable existence at all.
Click to expand...

Maybe miserable existence isn’t the best choice of words. However it does have an effect on people. It effects your overall health and wellbeing to hold on to things. It often manifests itself in other areas you are not even aware of.

Do you really think it’s a great example for your kids to see you hold on to such things? To not have the ability to forgive and move past things.
 
superqt4u2nv said:
Maybe miserable existence isn’t the best choice of words. However it does have an effect on people. It effects your overall health and wellbeing to hold on to things. It often manifests itself in other areas you are not even aware of.

Do you really think it’s a great example for your kids to see you hold on to such things? To not have the ability to forgive and move past things.
Click to expand...
My kids have no idea. How would they? Its not like I go around on a regular basis talking about it or expressing my feelings about it in front of them.
 
smurf2 said:
My kids have no idea. How would they? Its not like I go around on a regular basis talking about it or expressing my feelings about it in front of them.
Click to expand...

So if you hide it from your kids you are aware that it's not the best choice to carry around those feelings correct?

If thats the case why not just let it go.
 
superqt4u2nv said:
So if you hide it from your kids you are aware that it's not the best choice to carry around those feelings correct?

If thats the case why not just let it go.
Click to expand...
lol that doesnt make any sense. just because my kids dont know about it doesnt mean its not the best choice. my kids dont know everything,. they're kids. they dont need to be privy to everything. and my holding on to the feelings I have has no impact on them since the person in question is not in our lives whatsoever.
 
smurf2 said:
lol that doesnt make any sense. just because my kids dont know about it doesnt mean its not the best choice. my kids dont know everything,. they're kids. they dont need to be privy to everything. and my holding on to the feelings I have has no impact on them since the person in question is not in our lives whatsoever.
Click to expand...

I simply can't see the logic in holding on to those kinds of feelings if the person is not in your life.

If you think that on some level your kids can't sense things that are going on with you then you are not really giving them enough credit. Maybe not the baby but the boy for sure is old enough to sense these kinds of emotions.
 
superqt4u2nv said:
I simply can't see the logic in holding on to those kinds of feelings if the person is not in your life.

If you think that on some level your kids can't sense things that are going on with you then you are not really giving them enough credit. Maybe not the baby but the boy for sure is old enough to sense these kinds of emotions.
Click to expand...
The feelings I have for that person have absolutely no impact on my daily life, I assure you. I hardly ever even think about it so how could it? It's not like this is my children's father or something. The person in question is non existent as far as I'm concerned.
 
smurf2 said:
The feelings I have for that person have absolutely no impact on my daily life, I assure you. I hardly ever even think about it so how could it? It's not like this is my children's father or something. The person in question is non existent as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...

Maybe you don't see it impacting your life right now doesn't mean it wont in the future if you don't resolve those feelings.

Hostility, Anger, Aggressiveness, and Coronary Heart Disease: An Interpersonal Perspective on Personality, Emotion, and Health - Smith - 2004 - Journal of Personality - Wiley Online Library
 
I dont know why people insists we have to be happy chirpy people all the time, that is not normal, by normal I mean the actual norm, one can have a lot of hate towards something or someone and still function perfectly fine, I'm tired of humans chasing this ridiculous "perfect ying yang well being" feeling.
We all have anxiety, stress, anger, sadness, there is nothing wrong with that, it's part of life and they are normal human emotions that are part of our nature, when one of those emotions spills out of control and it starts to affect your life in a sifnificant way/level (work, socially, at home, etc) THEN it becomes a problem
 
I agree. Also, I would never pretend to know what's best for other people when it comes to personal things like this. I mean how could I possibly know how someone else should handle their feelings, especially when i dOnt even know the details? Seems absurd
 
nangiggles said:
I dont know why people insists we have to be happy chirpy people all the time, that is not normal, by normal I mean the actual norm, one can have a lot of hate towards something or someone and still function perfectly fine, I'm tired of humans chasing this ridiculous "perfect ying yang well being" feeling.
We all have anxiety, stress, anger, sadness, there is nothing wrong with that, it's part of life and they are normal human emotions that are part of our nature, when one of those emotions spills out of control and it starts to affect your life in a sifnificant way/level (work, socially, at home, etc) THEN it becomes a problem
Click to expand...

It's normal for some people. I'm a naturally happy person.

When something throws my life off kilter, I scramble to put it back in order so I can be happy again.
 
smurf2 said:
I agree. Also, I would never pretend to know what's best for other people when it comes to personal things like this. I mean how could I possibly know how someone else should handle their feelings, especially when i dOnt even know the details? Seems absurd
Click to expand...

Seems absurd to me to hold on to anger for someone that has no part in your life. We clearly have a diffrent definition of what over all happiness well-being and mental health is.

The point of the chat board is diffrence of opnions I have mine you have yours mine happen to have a few medical studies to back them up.
 
Last edited:
superqt4u2nv said:
Seems absurd to me to hold on to anger for someone that has no part in your life. We clearly have a diffrent definition of what over happiness well-being and mental health is.

The point of the chat board is diffrence of opnions I have mine you have yours mine happen to have a few medical studies to back them up.
Click to expand...

Have you ever forgiven someone after being traumatized by them?
 
nangiggles said:
I dont know why people insists we have to be happy chirpy people all the time, that is not normal, by normal I mean the actual norm, one can have a lot of hate towards something or someone and still function perfectly fine, I'm tired of humans chasing this ridiculous "perfect ying yang well being" feeling.
We all have anxiety, stress, anger, sadness, there is nothing wrong with that, it's part of life and they are normal human emotions that are part of our nature, when one of those emotions spills out of control and it starts to affect your life in a sifnificant way/level (work, socially, at home, etc) THEN it becomes a problem
Click to expand...

Yes we all have it and we all go through things the point of life in my eyes is to go through it learn grow and adapt. I agree no one is happy 24/7/365 but I don't see why people wouldn't want at least try to be. It is a lot easier to be happy than sad and feels a hell of a lot better to be happy.
 
smurf2 said:
The feelings I have for that person have absolutely no impact on my daily life, I assure you. I hardly ever even think about it so how could it? It's not like this is my children's father or something. The person in question is non existent as far as I'm concerned.
Click to expand...
That's harsh, gurlfren...I thought we was boyz, yo?
 
if someone starts being nice to me even immediately after a fight, my emotions are too whoreish to stay mad and i forgive and forget right away
 
superqt4u2nv said:
Yes we all have it and we all go through things the point of life in my eyes is to go through it learn grow and adapt. I agree no one is happy 24/7/365 but I don't see why people wouldn't want at least try to be. It is a lot easier to be happy than sad and feels a hell of a lot better to be happy.
Click to expand...
That's were I disagree, holding on to anger and grudges can actually make people happy, we are weird creatures
 
smurf2 said:
Id be interested to know how you did it.

consequently, the person i hold anger towards came into plat chat and i was able to carry on a civil conversation with no issues LOL
Click to expand...

It's not as complicated as it seems. I am not saying there is anything wrong with feeling anger or sadness or whatever it is feel it then you let it out. What ever way works for you cry, lift heavy weights, break inadament objects... Then you put it behind you close the door and move on. It's not even a matter of telling the other person you forgive them it is setting it in your head that you have.

I didn't for some traumatizing repressed childhood issues the exact same way I did it for some less traumatic tumultuous relationship I had. It is only as complicated as you make it in your mind.
 
There's three people I just remembered that screw me over professionally. It doesn't affect my day-to-day life now. But if I am ever in a position of authority over them, they're going to twist in the wind without mercy.
 
superqt4u2nv said:
It's not as complicated as it seems. I am not saying there is anything wrong with feeling anger or sadness or whatever it is feel it then you let it out. What ever way works for you cry, lift heavy weights, break inadament objects... Then you put it behind you close the door and move on. It's not even a matter of telling the other person you forgive them it is setting it in your head that you have.

I didn't for some traumatizing repressed childhood issues the exact same way I did it for some less traumatic tumultuous relationship I had. It is only as complicated as you make it in your mind.
Click to expand...

interesting.

so when you think of those traumatizing experiences, you no longer feel anger at all?
 
nangiggles said:
That's were I disagree, holding on to anger and grudges can actually make people happy, we are weird creatures
Click to expand...

It gives the person that wronged you a lot more power in your life than I am willing to give them. If you allow someone to have that kind of head space in your mind where you hold on to it I just don't see that as a happy thing.

But yes people are weird and clearly all diffrent.
 
smurf2 said:
Id be interested to know how you did it.

consequently, the person i hold anger towards came into plat chat and i was able to carry on a civil conversation with no issues LOL
Click to expand...

In your instance maybe the anger is what got you out and kept you safe; I think it could be confusing and hard to let that go, or even want to when it served such a purpose. I understand that.

Maybe you don't hold as much anger towards him as you think. You might still be angry or irritated but just at the situation, or at yourself. If you're able to be civil that sounds like a good place to be.

Nan: I think that's why blue started the thread. This isn't about someone like you mentioned; this is about someone that wants to let go but is having a hard time doing that. This is about someone who is holding on to something and can't find the place to let go and thinks she needs to so she can be happy and free and take that final step in moving on. I think instead of making fun of her, not trying to understand why she can't let go or what took so long we should try to help her find a way to find that place.

Forgiveness is about the person giving it, not the person that receives it. The unseen things tend to work in opposite of those principles around us that we see. To receive you have to give etc etc.
 
smurf2 said:
interesting.

so when you think of those traumatizing experiences, you no longer feel anger at all?
Click to expand...

No anger at all, just empathy for the other person. Some of the process is much easier to put into practice depending on the issue. Do it with smaller things first they seem easier to let go of. Then move on to the big one that really fucked you up. You might not be able to do it right away but in time you will put it behind you if you really want to. It’s a matter of perspective where you are at sometimes it will just hit you like it’s done I am over it.
 
cindylou said:
In your instance maybe the anger is what got you out and kept you safe; I think it could be confusing and hard to let that go, or even want to when it served such a purpose. I understand that.

.
Click to expand...
Totally! Thank you. That makes perfect sense
 
cindylou said:
In your instance maybe the anger is what got you out and kept you safe; I think it could be confusing and hard to let that go, or even want to when it served such a purpose. I understand that.

Maybe you don't hold as much anger towards him as you think. You might still be angry or irritated but just at the situation, or at yourself. If you're able to be civil that sounds like a good place to be.

Nan: I think that's why blue started the thread. This isn't about someone like you mentioned; this is about someone that wants to let go but is having a hard time doing that. This is about someone who is holding on to something and can't find the place to let go and thinks she needs to so she can be happy and free and take that final step in moving on. I think instead of making fun of her, not trying to understand why she can't let go or what took so long we should try to help her find a way to find that place.

Forgiveness is about the person giving it, not the person that receives it. The unseen things tend to work in opposite of those principles around us that we see. To receive you have to give etc etc.
Click to expand...
When did I make fun of her? Honestly we can alloffer some advice and insight but we cant feel how she feels, some dont even see how she still feels like this, I understand why and I encourage her to forgive so she can feel better ut I dont know wnough about her to offer helpful advice.


WoodyO said:
*where
Click to expand...
STFU I'm mexican I get to make mistakes! :D
 
nangiggles said:
When did I make fun of her? Honestly we can alloffer some advice and insight but we cant feel how she feels, some dont even see how she still feels like this, I understand why and I encourage her to forgive so she can feel better ut I dont know wnough about her to offer helpful advice.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn't mean you personally were making fun of her.
 
I see QT's point; in a spiritual sense when one carries anger, there is a misery that comes along with it. I have a lot of good in my life now and I'm not miserable, but there is this hue of "pain" I carry which I know if I can release it, I probably would have much stronger personal relationships and maybe even have better energy.

In another sense, it's pretty hard to release it.

I tried to forgive the "hiv" ex. Two years after the fact, he came back to tell me he still loved me more than life. I don't want to get into all the details, but I had moved on, was SO over him but still wanted that apology. I felt if I got an apology, I would be able to move on.

When I went to therapy after all this, the therapist told him I had post traumatic stress disorder and to let go was going to take work. I put in the work, and moved on pretty well, but then there was always something to remind me.
Really, I think of my hiv ex and could care less, so yes it's been 12 yrs this June, and I don't love him, don't think about him or even care, but there are something called triggers with PSTD and when I get them, the pain is just as fresh.

Now, with the last ex, well he knew how badly I was hurt and what happened to me, so you would think any "normal" human would be sensitive to that.
He wasn't and I won't get into detail cause he posts here and I don't want to get banned, but he did so much harm to me, that the triggers from the past were brutal!
I was with a man for 2 yrs before hiv ex and the last ex. He was not a nice guy, but this guy saw me at a bar years after we ended it, bought me a drink, apologized for his actions and I hugged him, told him it was ok and we actually would email once a while to say hello.
I TOTALLY forgave him and never even once thought about his actions.

Hiv Ex and the last ex, never took responsibility for what they did, caused so much damage and I never got a sincere apology and I never will, so forgiving them has been really tough.
Like Cindy said, I made this thread because of something her and I talked about and it got me thinking. I want to forgive these people, They are people who are so damaged and I truly believe it wasn't personal what they did, so I need to dig deep into my Buddhist soul and let it go.
On many levels I loved these people in the past and it wasn't all bad. I had many good years and many good times with both of them, and I want to focus on that, but it's so hard for me to do.

It feels WRONG to hate, even though that hate and sustained me to change my life, now I don't need it anymore and am trying to let it go
 
nangiggles said:
oh ok I was like WTF I'm not being helpful but I'm not making fun :D
Click to expand...

cindylou said:
Sorry, I didn't mean you personally were making fun of her.
Click to expand...

sum ngrs need to apologize to me for making fun

don't think they realize my feelings are fragile like a little China doll


just sayin'



blueta2 said:
I see QT's point; in a spiritual sense when one carries anger, there is a misery that comes along with it. I have a lot of good in my life now and I'm not miserable, but there is this hue of "pain" I carry which I know if I can release it, I probably would have much stronger personal relationships and maybe even have better energy.

In another sense, it's pretty hard to release it.

I tried to forgive the "hiv" ex. Two years after the fact, he came back to tell me he still loved me more than life. I don't want to get into all the details, but I had moved on, was SO over him but still wanted that apology. I felt if I got an apology, I would be able to move on.

When I went to therapy after all this, the therapist told him I had post traumatic stress disorder and to let go was going to take work. I put in the work, and moved on pretty well, but then there was always something to remind me.
Really, I think of my hiv ex and could care less, so yes it's been 12 yrs this June, and I don't love him, don't think about him or even care, but there are something called triggers with PSTD and when I get them, the pain is just as fresh.

Now, with the last ex, well he knew how badly I was hurt and what happened to me, so you would think any "normal" human would be sensitive to that.
He wasn't and I won't get into detail cause he posts here and I don't want to get banned, but he did so much harm to me, that the triggers from the past were brutal!
I was with a man for 2 yrs before hiv ex and the last ex. He was not a nice guy, but this guy saw me at a bar years after we ended it, bought me a drink, apologized for his actions and I hugged him, told him it was ok and we actually would email once a while to say hello.
I TOTALLY forgave him and never even once thought about his actions.

Hiv Ex and the last ex, never took responsibility for what they did, caused so much damage and I never got a sincere apology and I never will, so forgiving them has been really tough.
Like Cindy said, I made this thread because of something her and I talked about and it got me thinking. I want to forgive these people, They are people who are so damaged and I truly believe it wasn't personal what they did, so I need to dig deep into my Buddhist soul and let it go.
On many levels I loved these people in the past and it wasn't all bad. I had many good years and many good times with both of them, and I want to focus on that, but it's so hard for me to do.

It feels WRONG to hate, even though that hate and sustained me to change my life, now I don't need it anymore and am trying to let it go
Click to expand...

your stories make "going it alone route" seem knot so bad :)
 
PICK3 said:
sum ngrs need to apologize to me for making fun

don't think they realize my feelings are fragile like a little China doll


just sayin'





your stories make "going it alone route" seem knot so bad :)
Click to expand...

It's ok to be alone. I've had a lot of alone time.
It's tough out there to date and people are so set in their ways after 40, but for me, I am not the best judge of men. It's no secret.
 
I don't want to get into specifics but from my childhood trama the person has passed on so I was never able to hear an appology. I bet they didn't even know I would remember I was so young but I did. My point is if you are waiting for the other person to make a move admit a wrong you might wait forever but you have the ability in your own mind to move passed it.
 
You can forget about what someone did, but you never forget how they made you feel.
Most days, I never think about my past, then something triggers it. I want to get to a point where I have a trigger, and I can breath and send love and let it go.
My friend was really abused by her Dad when she was a kid, he died when she was 16. We talk about her Dad and she still wells up when she thinks about his abuse. My Mom is 80 and still triggers about how she was so poor, she lived with rats and no food. Sometimes, it's hard to get memories to leave.
You live with them, but they surface every once and a while.
 
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