Interesting Revelation About PRIMOBOLAN

[Nelson Montana]

Bolded the section above where you state it doesn't aromatize.

The debate between DHB or DHT aside, if it's converted into DHT, DHT can not aromatize.

The point is, there have not been any tests on Primobolan regarding this. Do you have studies that have taken before and after blood tests using Primobolan? If not, it's all speculation. However, increases in T have been detected with other steroids (such as dianabol). But since Primo is not very androgenic it's never been analyzed and I've always found that curious. There is a LOT we don't know. That includes me. That includes you.


As far as the client in question, he has no reason to lie to me. I know he's on HRT and I know he wanted to do a little Primo cycle in-between. The Primo he used was from one that has gotten the "seal of approval" from all the Primo experts here. Now if you want to start a debate about that, be my guest, but I'm going with face value.

None of this is conclusive, which is why I said it was and INTERESTING revelation -- and one that showed great progress is possible with low dosages. Now if you want to argue THAT, that's another thing as well.

 

[Para_Shoot]

"So once again, all these gram cycles and drol, d-bol, mega test dosages etc -- it's all bullshit"


I LOVE that quote Nelson! Someone who speaks the truth!

 

[Nelson Montana]

"So once again, all these gram cycles and drol, d-bol, mega test dosages etc -- it's all bullshit"


I LOVE that quote Nelson! Someone who speaks the truth!

yeah, that's why I love talking to the old timers. They used a fraction of what the typical guy at the Jersey Shore uses, but when I say that, nobody believes it. They can't believe that Arnold and Sergio and Scott and Zane and Mentzer can look that good on just a few hundred mgs of something. And the reason is, they don't know how to train with commitment.

 

[Ross]

I said IN THE BODY. The body doesn't produsce nandrolone, stanozolol, etc.

When you ADMINISTER these sex hormones, they are IN THE BODY, and this produces an androgenic effect. All steroids exert an androgenic effect, some more so than others.

 

[needtogetaas]

Once again, the leaps of logic are amazing.



Bro, All I am asking is that rather then wording everything you say as to come off as an attack, why not just say what you have to say nicely? Why cant you do it that way? Why is it a must that you come right out acting like this? I think you could have worded the whole thing a lot better my friend. Please try to do this next time, ok. There is no reason at all to be like this. It helps no one and stirs up nothing but animosity giving the whole site a bad atmosphere. So work with me here and help to change this. I dont like to have to ban people or hand out infractions because they cant just be nicer. Thank you my friend

First, those tests, like you say, detect androgens, so they are somewhat non-specific for testosterone, and all AAS in the blood stream will increase the levels (this is not 1:1).

I'm not sure how this in any way "debunks" the supposed "need" to use above-gram dosages of AAS, or that these high doses are somehow "bullshit". Gains made on steroids are dose-dependent, period. They are also dependent on training, diet, genetics, and a million other variables, but when considering just this one variable in isolation, muscular hypertrophy and strength increases are absolutely dose-dependent with relation to AAS usage.

If two clones of the same man did exactly the same training and stuck to the exact same diet. and the only difference was that one man too 750mg of test every week for 16 weeks. And the other man took 250mg of test and 500mg of primo every week for 16 weeks.

I wounder who would have the better cycle? who would end up with better quality gains? Who would have to deal with less side effects? Who would end up less bloated? After the cycle is over who would have a much more easy recovery?



Certainly a person can understand that you can achieve supraphysiologic levels of androgens by administering exogenous steroids to elicit said effect.

You praise primobolan for its "potency" as an androgen, then also praise the ease at which you recover from it. Well which is it? The two statements are mutually exclusive.

We can debate things till blue in the face. Get anal and dissect every tiny little detail. Take what some one says and try to play word games and run around in circles for days. Are we helping anyone by doing so? Does even half the board care or understand half the little anal debates like this?

Through experience I would have to say most people I know/ have spoken with. Have had a better recovery from a cycle with lighter test dose and a good dose of primo. Then they have with a high dosed test cycle. They had less sides, felt better, and keeping there gains where a lot more easy for them.




You then go on to assert, based on a completely failed attempt at logical persuasion, that "primo really is the optimum steroid."

IMO I feel you have Clearly shown in this post that your intentions or not grounded in trying to help anyone but more so intended to just argue and dig at some one. Be it that you are right or wrong matters nothing to me at this point. When the intentions behind actions are not for good, then whether right or wrong everything said and done is worthless. Had you clearly shown good intentions in your words and actions I my self and many others would be all ears. However at this point I doubt many people at all really care at all for what you have to say in this post. Ie you are catching a lot less flies then you hope and the response by everyone would be a lot better if you had better intentions.




Not to mention that the 100mg/wk of testosterone is completely relevant and significant to these findings. 100mg/wk is commonly prescribed for upper-range testosterone replacement therapy, and provides the anabolic benefit necessary to distinguish a male athlete from a female (rather substantial, many would agree).

Seriously, this isn't even pseudoscience.

I dont think pseudoscience is Nelsons intent here. His thoughts and ideas are certainly not meant to be deceiving to anyone. If that were the case, what would be his motive for doing so? Is he selling primo like the late Sachboogie here or something? NO we all know he is not and has no profit to be gained at all from any of this. So if its a accusation of deceit you are handing out. Then that accusation has no merit because its void of motive. Besides that would be a pretty tall accusation in the first place, one in which if made at a sponsor/hard working member of this site might get you into some trouble unless it could be proven.


Could his assumptions be fallacious? Maybe, But then lets just stick to debating the topic and helping each other out here not playing a game of who can one up the other and get in the best dig/attack.

10001110101 you put forth a good argument, some of the points made would make for a great discussion if not for the intent behind them.

You see how i have spoken to you through out my entire reply? Instead of attacks I have presented questions or theories to be disused. When a point needed to be made I did so well showing you a level of "mutual respect".

Well at least I have been trying to, but we all know on a forum when written word is all we have it can some times be hard.

Point is. I think the the "need" for more then 250mg of test or even having to have test and all in a cycle has been debunked with out with out this whole damn thread. So screw it ya dont "need it", That point is clear. Though many arguments can be brought forward as to why it might be better to do so for one reason or another, the fact is its not "needed"

The statement that "mega cycle are bullshit" was made and truthfully I dont think that is to far from the truth. Bullshit in what sense of the words I guess one should ask?

The statement was followed up with "You need just a slight elevation in T and increased nitrogen retention" Well to obtain good gains that really is all that is needed is it not? I mean combined with god training and diet of course?

So if one can take lower doses of test along with some primo and get great gains. Rather then take grams of test added with some dbols,tren and what ever to get good gains. Is that not a good thing?

Now of course larger cycles have there place and IMO they are not all bullshit. To each his one and every man is at his own level and needs to take what ever it is he needs to take to reach that next level.

In the end lets just all just work together and not against each other around here. Know what I mean 10001110101?
BTW good to see you bro. You been MIA for a wile. I only wish you might come around and have the level of commitment to this site that nelson has. Then also had a bit better way of going about things too.

Then you could really be worth something to the family here. Thanks for stopping bye though, and hope its not another few months to a year before we see you again bro.

 

[needtogetaas]

Could it be possible that the primo he's using is really test?

With the shit that goes on with labs these days its I would not dismiss this to quickly lol.

 

[needtogetaas]

So anywhere from 400-500mg wk is plenty for Primo? I've wanted to try this for so long, starting very soon.

Test 400mg wk
Primo 500 mg wk
Masteron 100mg eod

That is a fine looking cycle bro. Looks to be the same cycle swole was running a wile back and he fell in love with primo. Has had a crush on it ever since his first cycle with it

 

[needtogetaas]

It's not DNB. That's an incorrect assumption that has been floating around for years (I have no idea why it hasn't died yet) The truth
is actually that methenolone has a structure that is very similar to DHB, but is still a DHT derrivative.


Primobolan isn't a DHT derivative. DHB is 1-testosterone, Primo is 1-testosterone with a 1-methyl group on it. The 1-methyl group makes a very big difference in terms of androgenic effect. Its a androtane ( carbon 19 present) steroid ,Look up the structure and you will see It is 1-methyl-1-testosterone. Theoretically It could be the methyl group sterically giving better binding to the AR's even though it has a much lower anabolic/androgenic rate. Its affinity for binding to the AR is actually better than testosterone. The 1-methyl group on primo has very little to do with it's oral bioavailability, and does not offer much at all in the way of protection against liver degradation. However IMO it would have to be the reason for the large reduction in androgenic activity ( yet great affinity to AR ) Take away the 1-methyl group and boom!!! what do you have? 1-test and then androgenic activity increases a thousand times over.

I am sorry good friend. This is in no way intended as a flame but rather just a discussion among men.

"Primo can not be converted to a DHT derivative as it lacks the prerequisite 4,5 double bond. It is not a substrate for the 5-AR enzyme. It also is not a substrate for aromatase (requires the same 4,5-double bond)!!!!"

There is also no evidence through testing,studies or even regular feed back that Primo interacts to any degree with progesterone receptors. A well known and common trait of almost all dht derivatives. Putting this into perspective anadrol and winny are both dht derivative yet one gives wetter more sloppy big bulking gains well the other completely lowers estrogen and progesterone and yields much harder and dryer gains.

Still it has been theorized that anadrol has some effects on progesterone, that maybe either anadrol itself, or it's metabolites, mediates the progestrogenic ( not even a word lmao) effects.... So be it a agonist or antagonist most dht dirivatives have to a degree a effects on progesterone. Primo does not.


In any event, DHB and DHT have similar pharmokinetics as they are both affected by the 5-alpha-reductase enzyme.
True and primo seems to be a pretty remarkable drug then does it not? I mean it has a strong binding to the Ar like class 1 steroids but at the same time inhibits the effects that glucocorticoids have on muscle tissue, preventing glucocorticoids from increasing glutamine synthetase and causing muscle tissue breakdown. All this well raising nutrition retention far more then any other steroid. HMMMM I guess the statement that Primabolan is the super steroid is not so far of when you think about it


And I am discussing things in a civil manner. Specifically, I'm trying to discuss how methenelone could raise T levels.
It could do this by a number of mechanisms when you think about it. One would assume that higher nutrition retention would lead to better testosterone levels would it not?
Of course it would, and being as though studies have proven that primo is better at raising nutrition retention then any other steroids, then one would think this could in fact = a hire level of test.
(pubmed
Wien Med Wochenschr. 1993;143(14-15):368-75.
Metabolic effects of anabolic steroids.
Would be a good place to look for info like that^^^^ )

Or maybe ( not saying this is true ok so dont think I am) it is more of a dht dirivative as you stated. A dht that lowers estrogen, estrogen is part of the negative feedback loop of the HPTA?? thus by lowering it it raises test through a feed back significantly increase LH? HMM maybe even the reason its a much more easy recovery.... OK now I am just throwing shit out there lmao but hay wtf why not right lololol

One thing I have noticed. You state that primo doesn't aromatize yet you you claim that it raises T levels? That just isn't possible.

On the last statement are you trying to say that anything that raises test levels must raise estrogen levels???? Because this is not always true good bro.

Because estrogen is part of the negative feedback loop of the HPTA, anything that lowers estrogen might be able to raise testosterone. By lowering estrogen you can significantly increase LH levels respectively raising testosterone levels.

What about Hcg. This is also able to raise test levels with out significantly raising estrogen levels?

So here we have some perfect cases test being raised with very little or no estrogen being raised at all. Something that you flat out stated was " just not possible!!!!!!" Ha see how we can all sit around dissecting the shit out of each others post lmao.


Primo is an awesome steroid and its better at different things like nutrition retention then other steroids. The gains you get from primo are more lean and a lot more easy to keep IMO. IMo it is also much more easy to recover from a cycle of light test and primo , then it is from a heavy test cycle.

Anyway its clear that we can all have a fun, entertaining, and knowledgeable conversation that is void of anyone attack another. I seem to get my points across perfectly fine with out being a jerk to anyone ( for the most part). Unless some ones braking the rules I got no reasons to jump all over them. Even then I try not to.

Guys lets keep the discussion going but at all times let others around us know that we mean no harm or ill will. This can be done in a number of ways. Dropping the ego ( ya nelson needs help with this one too). Taking care to let some one know you are sorry if they feel you were being a jerk. A "sorry man"
can go a long way. So can adding a couple of kind or encouraging words, maybe even a complement to the person you are speaking to. That way he can be sure you are not just trying to argue for the sake of arguing and trying to make something good into something bad.

Remember perception is everything. More then a few times I was under the assumption that some one in this thread was just trying to be a prick. They were just saying what they were saying for no other reason then to be argumentative. Not what we want around here. I am sure that we all feel the same way. If you dont then let me know, because I can send you on your way then

thanks to all.

 

[goal245]

Are you 100% sure the primo is actually primo and not something else? It could be a long acting testosterone so he could actualy be shooting 500mg of test for which those blood levels make sense.

 

[Nelson Montana]

On the last statement are you trying to say that anything that raises test levels must raise estrogen levels???? Because this is not always true good bro.

Because estrogen is part of the negative feedback loop of the HPTA, anything that lowers estrogen might be able to raise testosterone. By lowering estrogen you can significantly increase LH levels respectively raising testosterone levels.

What about Hcg. This is also able to raise test levels with out significantly raising estrogen levels?

So here we have some perfect cases test being raised with very little or no estrogen being raised at all. Something that you flat out stated was " just not possible!!!!!!" Ha see how we can all sit around dissecting the shit out of each others post lmao.


Primo is an awesome steroid and its better at different things like nutrition retention then other steroids. The gains you get from primo are more lean and a lot more easy to keep IMO. IMo it is also much more easy to recover from a cycle of light test and primo , then it is from a heavy test cycle.

Anyway its clear that we can all have a fun, entertaining, and knowledgeable conversation that is void of anyone attack another. I seem to get my points across perfectly fine with out being a jerk to anyone ( for the most part). Unless some ones braking the rules I got no reasons to jump all over them. Even then I try not to.

Guys lets keep the discussion going but at all times let others around us know that we mean no harm or ill will. This can be done in a number of ways. Dropping the ego ( ya nelson needs help with this one too). Taking care to let some one know you are sorry if they feel you were being a jerk. A "sorry man"
can go a long way. So can adding a couple of kind or encouraging words, maybe even a complement to the person you are speaking to. That way he can be sure you are not just trying to argue for the sake of arguing and trying to make something good into something bad.

Remember perception is everything. More then a few times I was under the assumption that some one in this thread was just trying to be a prick. They were just saying what they were saying for no other reason then to be argumentative. Not what we want around here. I am sure that we all feel the same way. If you dont then let me know, because I can send you on your way then

thanks to all.

DUDE, that is one comprehensive explanation! Damn! You covered it all. At any rate, it lays it down and if this guys doesn't get the message, he doesn't want to.