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Yes deca does help with joint pain. It does not fix the problem that is causing the pain but it will mask the problem enough to lesson the pain.
Interesting Revelation About PRIMOBOLAN
- Thread starter Nelson Montana
- Start date
Yes deca does help with joint pain. It does not fix the problem that is causing the pain but it will mask the problem enough to lesson the pain.
needtogetaas
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Quote posted by needtogetaas View Post
On the last statement are you trying to say that anything that raises test levels must raise estrogen levels???? Because this is not always true good bro.
Actually, it is always true. Raising T levels causes increased aromatase enzyme activity, which then causes increased conversion of testosterone to estrogen. End result: Increased estrogen
Because estrogen is part of the negative feedback loop of the HPTA, anything that lowers estrogen might be able to raise testosterone. By lowering estrogen you can significantly increase LH levels respectively raising testosterone levels.
Lowering estrogen has no direct effect at all on T levels. Your estrogen levels are a result of the conversion of testosterone to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. They come from your natural production of test. By reducing estrogen (via an anti-aromatase like Aromasin), you can block the conversion of test to estrogen. By blocking that conversion you indirectly raise T levels.
OK wooopy we got anal about the differnece in the use of the word lower and the word block.
What about hcg. This is also able to raise test levels with out significantly raising estrogen levels?
I think you need to do further research. hcg stimulates the testes to produce T.
Unfortunately that increase in T is partially converted to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. So hcg does indeed raise estrogen levels. That is why taking an anti-aromatase like exemestane (Aromasin) is a really good idea when running hcg as it blocks the aromatase enzyme from converting T to E.
No I do not need to do more research, you are just yet again being anal. ANd this time super damn anal. I mean you just compeltely skipped 70% of my statement. You know the part where I said "with out significantly raising" . then you go into this big explaination as to try and show you are teaching me something. LMAO!!!!!
primo is an awesome steroid and its better at different things like nutrition It's nitrogen not nutrition retention then other steroids. The gains you get from primo are more lean and a lot more easy to keep IMO. IMo it is also much more easy to recover from a cycle of light test and primo , then it is from a heavy test cycle. [B) You're probably right in this part as primo is a milder androgen than test and causes less suppression [/b]
To conclude, IMHO primobolan does not raise T levels. What it does is raise , isthe level of androgens in your bloodstream. Your natural production of test is also suppressed (Seen by a reduction in LH and FSH), which also causes your estrogen levels to decrease as your circulating test is pretty much non-existent and therefore the aromatase enzyme cannot convert it to estrogen.
That is great. You know I love how you only pick and choice little tiny anal details like the ones you have. So you can at least have something to come back and say.. Yet completely ignoring the fact that you were dead wrong about primo. You helped no one here, you showed me nothing I did not already know, you made about as many good points as circle and yes some how I have the feeling you are not done yet. I get this strange feeling more useless banter is about to follow...
You see you are the kind of person that keeps coming back arguing even if you are not making any useful arguments at all. At the same time wont go away when proven wrong or admit so when proven wrong. When you are and some one says you are you just say " no I was not" then go right back to making senseless conversation about useless crap. Skipping over any time some one makes a perfect point backed by plenty of info, then the whole board agrees with it and it proves you wrong. Skipping right over any of this and continuing on with any little miscommunication there might be,anal points,ploys on words, or anything you can find to deter from your complete and utter lack of knowledge about the real subject at hand..
YA the kind of person that makes you just give up even trying to talk with. Because nothing is going to come of any of this besides frustration and aggravation. I do believe that is exactly what you are going for though. So before I let it get to that point, I am just going to take care of the problem. That problem being you
On the last statement are you trying to say that anything that raises test levels must raise estrogen levels???? Because this is not always true good bro.
Actually, it is always true. Raising T levels causes increased aromatase enzyme activity, which then causes increased conversion of testosterone to estrogen. End result: Increased estrogen
Because estrogen is part of the negative feedback loop of the HPTA, anything that lowers estrogen might be able to raise testosterone. By lowering estrogen you can significantly increase LH levels respectively raising testosterone levels.
Lowering estrogen has no direct effect at all on T levels. Your estrogen levels are a result of the conversion of testosterone to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. They come from your natural production of test. By reducing estrogen (via an anti-aromatase like Aromasin), you can block the conversion of test to estrogen. By blocking that conversion you indirectly raise T levels.
OK wooopy we got anal about the differnece in the use of the word lower and the word block.
What about hcg. This is also able to raise test levels with out significantly raising estrogen levels?
I think you need to do further research. hcg stimulates the testes to produce T.
Unfortunately that increase in T is partially converted to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. So hcg does indeed raise estrogen levels. That is why taking an anti-aromatase like exemestane (Aromasin) is a really good idea when running hcg as it blocks the aromatase enzyme from converting T to E.
No I do not need to do more research, you are just yet again being anal. ANd this time super damn anal. I mean you just compeltely skipped 70% of my statement. You know the part where I said "with out significantly raising" . then you go into this big explaination as to try and show you are teaching me something. LMAO!!!!!
primo is an awesome steroid and its better at different things like nutrition It's nitrogen not nutrition retention then other steroids. The gains you get from primo are more lean and a lot more easy to keep IMO. IMo it is also much more easy to recover from a cycle of light test and primo , then it is from a heavy test cycle. [B) You're probably right in this part as primo is a milder androgen than test and causes less suppression [/b]
To conclude, IMHO primobolan does not raise T levels. What it does is raise , isthe level of androgens in your bloodstream. Your natural production of test is also suppressed (Seen by a reduction in LH and FSH), which also causes your estrogen levels to decrease as your circulating test is pretty much non-existent and therefore the aromatase enzyme cannot convert it to estrogen.
That is great. You know I love how you only pick and choice little tiny anal details like the ones you have. So you can at least have something to come back and say.. Yet completely ignoring the fact that you were dead wrong about primo. You helped no one here, you showed me nothing I did not already know, you made about as many good points as circle and yes some how I have the feeling you are not done yet. I get this strange feeling more useless banter is about to follow...
You see you are the kind of person that keeps coming back arguing even if you are not making any useful arguments at all. At the same time wont go away when proven wrong or admit so when proven wrong. When you are and some one says you are you just say " no I was not" then go right back to making senseless conversation about useless crap. Skipping over any time some one makes a perfect point backed by plenty of info, then the whole board agrees with it and it proves you wrong. Skipping right over any of this and continuing on with any little miscommunication there might be,anal points,ploys on words, or anything you can find to deter from your complete and utter lack of knowledge about the real subject at hand..
YA the kind of person that makes you just give up even trying to talk with. Because nothing is going to come of any of this besides frustration and aggravation. I do believe that is exactly what you are going for though. So before I let it get to that point, I am just going to take care of the problem. That problem being you
needtogetaas
New member
Most everything you say is true but you're making it out as if it's an absolute and that's not quite true.
Quick points...
Yes, it's the aromatization of T that causes an increase in but that amount is not always the same. Some steroids aromatize more than testosterone mg per mg.
I agree that lowering estrogen doesn't necessarily raise T. I've been having this argument with Pat Arnold for 20 years. But then you go on to say that blocking the CONVERSION can lead to a RISE in T and that's kinda 6 of one/ half dozen of the other.
No shit bro. Something I was going to say but for god sakes its people like this that make me just say "fuck it why even waste my time" Sitting there coming up with the weakest damn shit I have ever seen, just for the sake of being able to stay in the conversation..
Its like a dude that just got rocked with a upper cut. His heads spinning, cant see str8, he knows he is done, yet his brains refuses to quite. SO he throws weak wild punches in the air at anything his blurred vision can find in front of him. I mean you have got to be kidding me. Nelson did you really just use the difference in using "block" instead of "lower"
I mean ya ya there is a difference of course there is. But really? you got to be kidding me right? That was an all time low here on ef for anyone.
Yes, HCG can raise T, but not so much from aromatization but from an increase in LH.
One area where I think you're flat out wrong is the belief that Primo doesn't aromatize because it suppresses testosterone. Not true. You can have a high T level and Primo will act somewhat as an anti e because it lowers SHBG.
And Primobolan DOES NOT suppress unless the dosages are very high --i.e, if androgen levels get too high!
Anyway, these are all good points and they can be debated endlessly, and that's part of the fun here. But to reiterate, we don't want that old time arguing where each person stands adamantly on their hypothesis and disparage anyone who disagrees. Then the next step is "cut and paste studies" wars which is all subjective to interpretation.
Bottom line, we're all trying to learn a little more than we already know. And some of us know quite a bit.
O you forgot that he was also flat out wrong about primo being a dht too. YA he also skipped right over that part too. So just kind of wanted to put that out there again ya know. Just in case he forgot.
Most everything you say is true but you're making it out as if it's an absolute and that's not quite true.
Quick points...
Yes, it's the aromatization of T that causes an increase in but that amount is not always the same. Some steroids aromatize more than testosterone mg per mg.
I agree that lowering estrogen doesn't necessarily raise T. I've been having this argument with Pat Arnold for 20 years. But then you go on to say that blocking the CONVERSION can lead to a RISE in T and that's kinda 6 of one/ half dozen of the other.
Yes, HCG can raise T, but not so much from aromatization but from an increase in LH.
One area where I think you're flat out wrong is the belief that Primo doesn't aromatize because it suppresses testosterone. Not true. You can have a high T level and Primo will act somewhat as an anti e because it lowers SHBG.
And Primobolan DOES NOT suppress unless the dosages are very high --i.e, if androgen levels get too high!
Anyway, these are all good points and they can be debated endlessly, and that's part of the fun here. But to reiterate, we don't want that old time arguing where each person stands adamantly on their hypothesis and disparage anyone who disagrees. Then the next step is "cut and paste studies" wars which is all subjective to interpretation.
Bottom line, we're all trying to learn a little more than we already know. And some of us know quite a bit.
Aromatase Inhibitors DO INCREASE TOTAL TESTOSTERONE, and they do so SIGNIFICANTLY. Allow me to explain..
Men produce the female hormone estrogen indirectly via the Aromatase enzyme, which converts Testosterone in to estrogen. When this enzyme is inhibited by a drug like Arimidex or Aromasin, testosterone can not be converted in to estrogen and therefore estrogen levels decrease significantly. The HPTA will detect this decrease in female hormone, and in order to maintain homeostatsis, will attempt to make more estrogen. So, the HPTA upregulates testosterone production in an attempt to produce more estrogen, but since the aromatase enzyme is inhibited, all that occurs is a massive increase in Testosterone levels. The body makes more testosterone in an attempt to make more estrogen.
Aromatase inhibitors also decrease SHBG and increase FREE Testosterone. All men should seek to create a favorable androgen:estrogen ratio.
True, but it's also possible to have high estrogen and low testosterone. It depends on a lot of factors, as you know.
would it be a good idea for a 3rd cycle to run primo + sustanon (say 10 weeks on both?)+ beastdrol for the first 3-4 weeks?
i am definately wanting to give primo a shot this fall for my next cycle.. shit sounds awesome.. i have never run it.. but i have run sust and beastdrol and loved both.
i am definately wanting to give primo a shot this fall for my next cycle.. shit sounds awesome.. i have never run it.. but i have run sust and beastdrol and loved both.
needtogetaas
New member
Hence why when mr Whathisface said that it is not possible to raise testosterone with out raising estrogen, I said he was wrong???????? And yet Again I was wright and he was wrong.
But he choice to act like he was write by making yet another wack ass comment about the difference in lowering and blocking lolol.. Its all he had to work with. Weak as fuck but all he had.
So lets recap.
1. he was wrong about primo
2 he was wrong in saying any time you have a increase in test " its is not possible at all" with otu a increase in estrogen..
3. wrong wrong wrong about everything he has been saying thus far..
I mean did the guy say anything at all worth listening too?
Anyway its always fun to talk with you and nelson. Even if you guys are super gay I dont mind at all.
needtogetaas
New member
I think so. One of the better ones we have had in a wile. I think I will be coming around on the forums rather then pm's a lot more. We need to get this place popping again. This and also my forum needtobuildmuscle.net which is a bad ass forum.
10001110101
New member
Sorry for the hostile post nelson. Been having a hard time, logged in to EF, saw something to pick apart, and did it. What really sucks is, I totally agree with you, but I have a funny way of expressing it~!
Primo is great great great gear, the combination you mentioned with a moderate dose primo + 100mg test a week is the perfect all around cycle, even if you compete (it may not be enough for ronnie coleman tho!)
Basically, my post was meant to examine the leaps of logic WE ALL, MYSELF INCLUDED, make when discussing incredibly complex biological processes on an internet forum. My father is an attorney so I guess I grew up learning how to pick people's words apart... my bad.
I agree that primo is one of the best, if not THE best overall AAS a person can use, only to be made better by addition of a physiological dose of test. Basically I think we all need to step up our knowledge game. It's difficult to get hard data for a lot of these AAS due to legality issues, but it's becoming easier as more and more tests are done on the few legal AAS we do use in medicine in the US.
But we all need to slow down before we make a claim, it's easy to misinterpret data, get the lines crossed, and overall bung up perfectly good science. A scientific mind is always skeptical of its own conclusions.
That being said, my post was really an attack on your use of the english language and basic argumentation. Let's say it wasn't the conclusions you drew or even how you drew them that bothered me, but it was the way that you made your argument, which is incredibly STUPID to attack, I must have really had something up my ass.
Don't think i'm gonna take it easy on you now though
Primo is great great great gear, the combination you mentioned with a moderate dose primo + 100mg test a week is the perfect all around cycle, even if you compete (it may not be enough for ronnie coleman tho!)
Basically, my post was meant to examine the leaps of logic WE ALL, MYSELF INCLUDED, make when discussing incredibly complex biological processes on an internet forum. My father is an attorney so I guess I grew up learning how to pick people's words apart... my bad.
I agree that primo is one of the best, if not THE best overall AAS a person can use, only to be made better by addition of a physiological dose of test. Basically I think we all need to step up our knowledge game. It's difficult to get hard data for a lot of these AAS due to legality issues, but it's becoming easier as more and more tests are done on the few legal AAS we do use in medicine in the US.
But we all need to slow down before we make a claim, it's easy to misinterpret data, get the lines crossed, and overall bung up perfectly good science. A scientific mind is always skeptical of its own conclusions.
That being said, my post was really an attack on your use of the english language and basic argumentation. Let's say it wasn't the conclusions you drew or even how you drew them that bothered me, but it was the way that you made your argument, which is incredibly STUPID to attack, I must have really had something up my ass.
Don't think i'm gonna take it easy on you now though
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