clomid or nolva/pct regimen

[bren565]

dude wtf
now im confused...

aromasin?
clomid
and hcg?

stop misleading haha

 

[tical]

Don't use HCG during PCT. Only use it during cycle. It doesn't help you during PCT - it's only useful when steroids are still in your body.

We all know clomid works, some people just don't like it. It's part of the game though.

 

[Gamer2Be08]

I believe studies have shown that Clomid induces a significant stimulatory release of LH whereas Nolvadex is much weaker in this respect as it is formulated to act primarily on breast tissue. Until more studies have been done in the area of GnRH signaling (via Decapeptyl/Triptorelin), Clomid is still the gold standard for PCT.

x2!!!
CLomid sides are over rated..
I am on clomid now.
Not emotional.
High energy.
Great libido..

Dont psyche yourself out.. All those clomid sides are placibo IMO, unless your dosing high..

 

[Gamer2Be08]

sorry i meant run HCG through his cycle, and use aromasin during PCT

as for clomid and nolva i personaly wouldnt use either, ive used both and both were dissapointing, i lost strength, sex drive, energy and had a shit mood and shit erections

i stoped usign both almost 2 weeks into PCT and both times the following days i stopped using them i got my good erection back, and energy and strength

just my experience

Were you running an AI with your SERM?
That fixes a lot of problems..

 

[bren565]

Were you running an AI with your SERM?
That fixes a lot of problems..

alright so...

on cycle
liquid (oral) hcg how many iu's?
hcgenerate 5 caps a day

pct
sustain alpha 1-4 max dose (not sure)
phyto serms 1-4 max dose (2)
unleashed 1-4 max dose (3)
hcgenerate 1-5 5-6 a day
post cycle 1-4 max dose (3)
formastanzol 1-4 max dose (pumps am - pm)
clomid 50 mg ed 1-4

?

most important is the hcg oral wtf and how do you use it?

 

[Gamer2Be08]

how so? im pretty confident running and A.I with a serm might be overkill on estrogen levels

No my friend.
When you use clomid or nolva, your E2 sky rockets and when you use nolva, your progesterone increases..

But, because they bind to your breasts, you wont get gyno due to the increase in E2..

You decrease E2/progesterone with an AI like formestane, and you also lower SHBG and increase free test..

All in all, you get better libido, harder erections, drier look, more free test, less emotional..

The significant rise in E2 causes a lot of probs.. And a mild AI can fix..

 

[Nelson Montana]

Don't use HCG during PCT. Only use it during cycle. It doesn't help you during PCT - it's only useful when steroids are still in your body.

We all know clomid works, some people just don't like it. It's part of the game though.

Sorry, but I disagree with everything in this post.

hcg loses effectiveness if used too often during a cycle. It should be used after a cycle to elevate T while attempting to recover.

Also, two similarities with Clomid and nolvadex is loss of libido in many people and in people that show improvement, it stops after cessation of use. This is proven with blood tests. If CLomid raised T ad kept it up, we'd all be using CLomid and having higher and higher test levels. It does not work that way.

People think clomid works because it's a "proven drug" but the only ting it's proven to do is increases fertility in women.

 

[tical]

Sorry, but I disagree with everything in this post.

hcg loses effectiveness if used too often during a cycle. It should be used after a cycle to elevate T while attempting to recover.

Also, two similarities with Clomid and nolvadex is loss of libido in many people and in people that show improvement, it stops after cessation of use. This is proven with blood tests. If CLomid raised T ad kept it up, we'd all be using CLomid and having higher and higher test levels. It does not work that way.

People think clomid works because it's a "proven drug" but the only ting it's proven to do is increases fertility in women.

You're wrong.

What happens when we use steroids? Our body recognizes excessive hormones binding to receptors and our hypothalamus (brain) stops sending GnRH to our pituitary gland in order to cease the release of LH/FSH hormone and stop natural testosterone production. Your body is trying to reach an equilibrium, it knows it has too much hormone so it's putting the brakes on making more.

This is what we call being "shutdown."

For those that don't know, luteinizing hormone (LH) is the hormone that acts on the leydig cells in our testicles and makes them produce testosterone. Follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) is responsible for the reproductive aspects of the body.

The point of using small amounts of HCG throughout your cycle is because it activates the leydig cells in your testicles the same way LH does, causing your testicles to produce testosterone. Remember, when we're on a cycle, we aren't producing the LH to do this. This is beneficial in other aspects beyond preventing testicular atrophy. There are other metabolic reactions that LH is responsible for (for example, converting pregnenolone from cholesterol). This is why it is recommended while on cycle.

Using HCG while on PCT will increase testosterone, but this type of increase is not beneficial when attempting to restore HPTA balance. It is actually working against you.

The goal of PCT is to get your brain to signal your pituitary to begin releasing LH/FSH again. You want the increase in testosterone to come from your testicles responding to REAL LH, not the HCG imposter.

Increasing testosterone during PCT by using HCG will just produce more testosterone and more estrogen, effectively slowing your recovery down via the same mechanism that using steroids shut you down in the first place.

I've already posted several medical studies that illustrate the effectiveness of clomid at raising LH and thus testosterone in men. I've actually done this in direct response to you. It appears you've ignored that evidence. People do achieve supra-physiological increases in testosterone from clomid. But this is limited to what your testicles can produce naturally.

Yes, clomid promotes fertility in women. Why? Because women have LH/FSH as well. LH surges make women ovulate. LH makes men produce testosterone.

 

[bren565]

ok so who is right....

both r so convincing

 

[Nelson Montana]

You're wrong.

.......................................


NO DUDE, YOU'RE WRONG. I WAS JUST TRYING TO BE POLITE.

.............................................................

What happens when we use steroids? Our body recognizes excessive hormones binding to receptors and our hypothalamus (brain) stops sending GnRH to our pituitary gland in order to cease the release of LH/FSH hormone and stop natural testosterone production. Your body is trying to reach an equilibrium, it knows it has too much hormone so it's putting the brakes on making more.

..........................................


WHAT'S THAT HAVE TO DO WITH HCG?


..................................................

This is what we call being "shutdown."

..........................................


NO, THAT'S WHAT'S CALLED "SUPPRESSION."



....................................................................


For those that don't know, luteinizing hormone (LH) is the hormone that acts on the leydig cells in our testicles and makes them produce testosterone. Follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) is responsible for the reproductive aspects of the body.

The point of using small amounts of HCG throughout your cycle is because it activates the leydig cells in your testicles the same way LH does, causing your testicles to produce testosterone. Remember, when we're on a cycle, we aren't producing the LH to do this.

...............................................

RIGHT, BUT SINCE THERE'S EXOGENOUS TESTOSTERONE , THE SUPPRESSION WILL CONTINUE. THE ELEVATION WILL BE SHORT LIVED AND YOU'LL DEVELOP A TOLERANCE TO IT, THUS NEGATING ITS EFFECTIVENESS FOR WHEN YOU NEED IT THE MOST -- AFTER THE CYCLE.



..............................................................


This is beneficial in other aspects beyond preventing testicular atrophy. There are other metabolic reactions that LH is responsible for (for example, converting pregnenolone from cholesterol). This is why it is recommended while on cycle.

...........................................................


BUT HCG DOESN'T INCREASE LH, IT JUST MIMICS IT.


...............................................................

Using HCG while on PCT will increase testosterone, but this type of increase is not beneficial when attempting to restore HPTA balance. It is actually working against you.

...............................

YET IT DOESNT WORK AGAINST YOU ISING IT ON CYCLE? THAT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.


...................................................................


The goal of PCT is to get your brain to signal your pituitary to begin releasing LH/FSH again. You want the increase in testosterone to come from your testicles responding to REAL LH, not the HCG imposter.

...................................

THAT'S NOT THE POINT OF HCG. THAT'S WHY I BELIEVE IN USING NATURAL METHODS TO INCREASE TEST, BECAUSE IT GETS YOUR BODY TO DO WHAT IT MUST DO EVENTUALLY.


.........................................................................

Increasing testosterone during PCT by using HCG will just produce more testosterone and more estrogen, effectively slowing your recovery down via the same mechanism that using steroids shut you down in the first place.

.............................................................

ONLY IF IT'S DONE FOR TOO LONG, AGAIN....NOT THE PROPER METHOD OF USING HCG.



....................................................

I've already posted several medical studies that illustrate the effectiveness of clomid at raising LH and thus testosterone in men.


...............................

E
NO YOU HAVEN'T. YOU THINK YOU HAVE. I'VW READ DOZENS OF THEM AND NOT ONE PROVIDES CONVINCING EVIDENCE THAT IT DID ANYTHING AT ALL.

.......................................................................

I've actually done this in direct response to you. It appears you've ignored that evidence.


.....................................................



NO, IT'S MY JOB TO INVESTIGATE THE EVIDENCE AND I'VE BEEN DOING IT FOR OVER 30 YEARS. MAYBE YOU'VE DONE IT LONGER. FEEL FREE TO PRESENT YOUR CREDENTIALS.


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People do achieve supra-physiological increases in testosterone from clomid. But this is limited to what your testicles can produce naturally.

...................................

RIGHT. AND IN A SUPRESSED STATE, THEY CAN;T DO MUCH. THEREFORE, CLOMID JUST INCREASES ESTROGEN. YOU SEE, IT DOES WHAT YOU CLAIM THE HCG DOES. BUT YOU'RE NOT SEEING IT.


................................................................................

Yes, clomid promotes fertility in women. Why? Because women have LH/FSH as well. LH surges make women ovulate. LH makes men produce testosterone.
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

AND ESTROGEN. AND AS YOU JUST SAID, IF THE TESTES AREN'T PUTTING OUT, THEY WON'T SUPPLY MUCH TESTOSTERONE. YOU ESSENTIALLY NEGATED YOUR OWN POINT. BUT I'M NOT HERE TO GO TIT FOR TAT WITH YOU. BUT I KNOW THE FACTS BRO, NOT JUST WHAT THE INTERNET GURUS SAY. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, CONCERNS OR SPECULATION -- EVEN AN OPPOSING THEORY, FEEL FREE TO SPEAK UP. BUT DON'T THINK YOU'RE ON TO SOMETHING AND THOSE WHO DISAGREE ARE SIMPLY MISINFORMED. IN THAT REGARD, YOU'RE WAY OFF BASE -- NO OFFENSE.

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