This will be my last post regarding this topic. There are just some things that need to be said. I'm sure this account will get banned, just like the others.
1. I was never antagonistic towards you Nelson, you hurled the first insult by calling me "way out of my league." You even edited your post to make it say "way off base" a little while later instead. You can still see your original response in my quotes however.
2. You said you would love to have a debate with me? That was exactly what was happening. Anyone can read this thread and see that that is ALL I was trying to do, yet, you never debated. You basically insisted you were right and I was wrong - but you never posted any proof - NOTHING. Using the quote "I've been doing this 30+ years" is simply a fallacy.
If you really wrote 100s of articles on the subject of PCT, you should have had no problem showing us a single article - just one. You never explained the mechanisms by which your products work. You just say they work. I wanted to know HOW they work. What I was doing during this whole debacle was explaining how SERMs work and why HCG shouldn't be used during PCT. If you had an opposing theory, you should have shared it with us. Instead all you did was say I was wrong and you were right. If you wrote an artcile, cut & paste it here. Send me a link to it. Anything!
3. Compared to the way some others have acted on this board, I was never "nasty" with you. I never tossed a swear word or direct insult at you. I may have said your position on something was ignorant, but this was simply in response to your own ego driven demeanor. We get it, you're a senior member of the board and demand respect. Even though you talk about mutual respect in a previous post, you don't actually follow that practice. It is basically your way or the highway. I can understand the position of not wanting to let things get out of hand, but seriously, were they really getting out of hand to the point where other members would be influenced to the point of board anarchy?
4. I never said your products were inferior and I never insisted that drugs were better - all I insisided on was that they were PROVEN. There are many natural substances that are practically pharmacological and perhaps you guys have formulated something that is powerful enough to do what you claim. When the thread got derailed, and the conversation moved towards simply QUESTIONING your products and the mechanisms by which they work, you considered this insulting. Sure I implied there were financial motives behind the push for these products, but this was obvious to anyone. It is even more questionable now because you refuse to explain how the ingredients in your products synergistically work for men with AAS induced suppression (aquired secondary hypogonadsim).
5. Years ago I had a fucked up cycle / no PCT because of my federal bust, which I shared with everyone on this board in the hopes that it might help some avoid the same mistakes I made. I hastily jumped on TRT because I had to do everything through a doctor (I didn't even want to order a SERM out of legal fear). I immersed myself in the subject of (male) hormones, AAS, and recovery for many years, and still do today. To bring up my shutdown due to this just to back up your argument is another fallacy, it really doesn't make you right and again, you decide to use something out of context just to make yourself appear more knowledgable on the subject. Perhaps you've never made a mistake.
One thing to clarify, I'm not saying you don't know what you're talking about and I am the authority. All I have been doing is asking questions.
To C.K. that posted, "why use clomid even though it killed your libido and why not use products like HCGenerate to recover." Maybe I would, if someone would explain to me how it works to promote recovery and why it would be better than using something like clomid alone, or even in combination with a SERM. Does it actually help you recover or does it just make you feel better through some other mechanism while your body is attempting to recover at its own pace. How long can your body respond to these natural compounds before results begin tapering. These are valid questions.
For example, one of the ingredients in HCGenerate, Divanillyltetrahydrofuran, doesn't directly raise testosterone. It simply binds to SHBG allowing more of your own testosterone to be unbound (Free). This isn't recovery from suppression though it might help you feel better with low test levels.
What ingredient increases GnRH signaling or increases natural LH output from the pituitary? That is the goal of HPTA recovery; to get LH output going again and allow your body to reach a sustainable equilibrium. Studies show that 100% of participants using SERMs achieved an increase in LH through GnRH signaling. This is undeniable. Once you taper off of a SERM it is up to your body to maintain a reasonable balance.
Is it wrong to ask how this is achieved with your product?
6. You say wrote an article about the negative effects of clomid a long time ago. Where is this article? Can we read it? I never disagreed with you on the negative sides of clomid. I am right there with you in agreement that the sides are shitty for many of us. The question is, what was your alternative therapy? If it was just HCG, can you explain how HCG can stimulate a desirable brain / pituitary response in regards to recovery?
7. Lastly, I offered an apology to you for any offense you might have taken and it still stands. I know you didn't ban me, but I hope you can take a step back and realize all I was doing was asking questions and asserting my points with reasonable evidence. I (and I'm sure several others) wonder why you (or whoever banned me) were hesitant to do the same.
I don't expect for my original account to be reactivated and this one will probably be banned too - for simply debating and asking how.
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