Bodybuilding truth

[bigpokey]

so if you run a test prop cycle for 6 weeks do you still need a 4 week pct? would hcg on cycle, and then forma and some PCT supps good enough for PCT? I did a 6 week cycle of test prop and kept most of my gains with forma, hcgenerate, post cycle, unleashed and no serm as PCT, this last test prop cycle i did for 10 weeks and used hcg on cycle and nolv for PCT without all the OTC stuff and I didn't keep shit

 

[needtogetaas]

so if you run a test prop cycle for 6 weeks do you still need a 4 week pct? would hcg on cycle, and then forma and some PCT supps good enough for PCT? I did a 6 week cycle of test prop and kept most of my gains with forma, hcgenerate, post cycle, unleashed and no serm as PCT, this last test prop cycle i did for 10 weeks and used hcg on cycle and nolv for PCT without all the OTC stuff and I didn't keep shit

Exactly..

Look all you need to know about pct you can find right here in this thread bro ... http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...e-support-drug-steroid-user-bible-778853.html

Learn everything you can about steroids from A to Z before taking the jump. My taking steroids 101 gives you a complete run down of the entire sobject from start to finish. More information slammed into one place then you will ever see in your life.
http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/taking-anabolic-steroids-101-a-642856.html

 

[needtogetaas]

Ok cool guys can someone get back on track with me on a 4 week cycle. I thought you were about to go to blows. I'm just tring to get good information that's all. Dident mean to steer things up. PCT can you do without it for such a short cycle? Can I use supplemts from ntbm site for PCT? I'm only going to do sus ever 3day. My guy just gave me my HCG. Well it turned out to be hgh pin. I have Proviron on hand 25mg. 40 ea. I don't think I'll need the HCG for a short cyc. Not sure. Please help me out guys.
Jtom44

No you can never do without PCT

 

[needtogetaas]

The short cycle approach is still the most misunderstood concept in bodybuilding. (Technically, it's 4 weeks, but let's get to the point).

Right off the bat, there's still this myth that a drug takes weeks to "kick in." That is patently false. A drug does not sit around and do nothing until a certain amount of time passes. It is active immediately. Short acting esters do not act quicker, they simply don't last as long. And oral gives full dosage immediate effect for a very short time and they are recomened in a short cycle.

Just because you may not "feel" a difference or gain much weight, doesn;t mean your body hasn't experienced an anabolic effect. Besides, an experienced trainer will feel the effects of steroids within a few days. If you don't... you simply don't know how to train.That's the cold hard truth. It's a common problem. People learn more about drugs than they do about training.

Short cycles are not meant to put on 20 pounds, reason being, you can;t hold 20 pounds naturally. This is why guys go back on after a few weeks or just do low dosaes and call it a "bridge." They should call it "bullshit" because that's what it is. They're kidding themselves.

The FEWER pounds you gain, the more of them you can keep in a natural state. Short cycles are like adjunct to natural training -- to give a little boost a few times a year. Also, sInce recovery is easy, there's little loss of gains.

People complain and deride short cycles because they don't provide the satisfaction of big ass cycles. But in the long run, they're more effective.

People MUST stop thinking in terms of what the pros use. The pros aren't looking to build muscle over the long run. They're looking to peak for one day. And they're genetic freaks. And most of them off season look like tubs of shit.

These days with better PCT products, I think a cycle can be stretched with no ill effects to 6, maybe even 8 weeks -- which is what a typical cycle was back in the 70's and 80's. And personally, a lot of those guys looked pretty damn awesome.

It is not that it takes a set amount of time to " kick in" .. No different drugs take a wile to reach " peak levels" ..

You can run test-e for 4-5 weeks and get gains but everyone knows that you reach peak levels of test at around week 4-5 so it is week 4-10 that you get THE BEST GAINS... So yes short cycles can work but the best gains of some steroids all depends on each ester and half life of that steroid...

I would never run EQ any less then 16 weeks because I know it does not reach peak levels till week 8 and the body does not recompensate until week 16 so best gains for eq ia weeks 8 through 16.. Test-e weeks 4-10. Deca weeks 6-12 so on and so forth. So You can look at it from different angles and from my angle I think unless its a short ester like prop , ace or a oral short cycles are a waste of good steroids.. If you are going to run short cycles then stick to short esters that is what they are made for.

 

[needtogetaas]

This makes no sense to me because when you give a patient any drug you need to first reach therapeutic levels. While it is true that a drug starts to mediate an effect once it reaches its target, not all drugs have the same volume of distribution and there are many drugs that we prescribe that take on the order of 4-8 weeks to reach therapeutic levels. So I am not sure what the goal is when using a drug an sub-optimal doses or sub-optimal levels to get the desired outcome.

Ok so this guy said what I said but I said it better lmao

 

[ledhead]

It is not that it takes a set amount of time to " kick in" .. No different drugs take a wile to reach " peak levels" ..

You can run test-e for 4-5 weeks and get gains but everyone knows that you reach peak levels of test at around week 4-5 so it is week 4-10 that you get THE BEST GAINS... So yes short cycles can work but the best gains of some steroids all depends on each ester and half life of that steroid...

I would never run EQ any less then 16 weeks because I know it does not reach peak levels till week 8 and the body does not recompensate until week 16 so best gains for eq ia weeks 8 through 16.. Test-e weeks 4-10. Deca weeks 6-12 so on and so forth. So You can look at it from different angles and from my angle I think unless its a short ester like prop , ace or a oral short cycles are a waste of good steroids.. If you are going to run short cycles then stick to short esters that is what they are made for.

Thank you for confirming my post. I do not understand the philosophy of doing a "four week" cycle?? I do believe you will make "some" gains, but you will not get optimal results. Conversely, I do not believe in doing crazy-ass "long" cycles either because I feel eventually one will "fry" their "receptors," hindering muscle growth. I think both philosophies are a waste of "gear."

Nevertheless, I personally believe 12-16 week cycles are the best for optimal gains because it gives time for "blood levels" to "peak," and to become "stable." Moreover, giving the body time to adjust and create an "anabolic state" for a substantial time enabling maxium muscle growth.. without frying the receptors and giving the body adequate time to grow unlike short cycles..

It is a combination of science and biology, not just science..

Nice post!!

 

[stevesmi]

I think needto summed it up very well above. and I think everyone is on the same page when he says the difference between "kick in" and "peak levels"... why I couldn't come up with that explanation earlier I have no idea but that is why needto is the man, he knows how to explain things simply.

I generally like to do 10-12 week cycles when i run injectables but I stop tren at 6 weeks... and I like 4 week cycles with orals. I think running both throughout the year is the way to go instead of just doing long cycles. I agree with ledhead that longer cycles scare me that I see people running not just because of the 'fried receptors' but also cause I am always concerned about recovery issues as I do not want to go on HRT anytime soon. would rather continue cycling for years to come then when i hit maybe 50 or 55 worry about HRT.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Well, I'm going to have to go on record as disagreeing with a few of my colleagues here.

The truth of the matter is that it DOES NOT take weeks for steroids to reach peak levels, for the very fact that they have a half life of only 14 days. (Give or take depending on the ester). It's not like the first few injections won't work. Of course, the second week will be stronger because you'll still have some of the ester from the first week active. But by week 3, you're not ADDING anything. You're just maintaining a certain level if dosing is the same.

Short esters are of NO ADDITIONAL VALUE to a short cycle because you still need to have a stable level. Sure Prop gives you a bigger hot for a shorter time, but it doesn't matter in a 4 week cycle because you still have to take it at least every 48 hours. After 48 hours it's gone.

The reason certain drugs like EQ take longer to SEEMINGLY "reach stable levels" is because the effects are mild and it takes time to notice them. But you grow every bit as much muscle in week two as you do in week 10 -- maybe more. It's just that you NOTICE the culmination of all the gain when there's more of it.

I hope that makes it clear.

 

[needtogetaas]

Thank you for confirming my post. I do not understand the philosophy of doing a "four week" cycle?? I do believe you will make "some" gains, but you will not get optimal results. Conversely, I do not believe in doing crazy-ass "long" cycles either because I feel eventually one will "fry" their "receptors," hindering muscle growth. I think both philosophies are a waste of "gear."

Nevertheless, I personally believe 12-16 week cycles are the best for optimal gains because it gives time for "blood levels" to "peak," and to become "stable." Moreover, giving the body time to adjust and create an "anabolic state" for a substantial time enabling maxium muscle growth.. without frying the receptors and giving the body adequate time to grow unlike short cycles..

It is a combination of science and biology, not just science..

Nice post!!

No such thing as frying ones receptors my friend. In fact the more steroids you run the more receptors for steroids you create..

If the statement that " you can fry or down regulate or even saturate your receptors" was even remotely true. The how would people like ronie colman or any other massive dude stay this size forever like they do???

These guys like it or not are on steroids year round. Get in good and on a inside friend level with any pro at the top level and they will admit they stay on juice life long and they never come off ever.

No Your body wants to reach homeostasis and that is why gains start to taper off after you have ran something for long enough. However if you know the bodies hormone loop, negative feed backs, what steroids and or homrones do what and the human body inside and out. You can use hormone manipulation to continually grow and grow and fucking grow and not taper off in gans still you have reached your full potential..

Read the thread I wrote called " changing your cycles often blast and cruse" .. this will give you some good incite into how to use hormone manipulation to keep growing.

Is this sound advice for the newb?? Hell know the avg dude should be cycling on and off for as long as he can. With how good we have gotten at supplementation , new drugs like sarms, peptides and other things really no one has to stay on steroids all the time ever unless they are at the top 50 IFBB pro level ..


BTW dont bother coming and telling me OOO well I know some pros and they dont run that much or they cycle off I talk to them.. YA OK buddy you been laid to plan and simple you been had lmao..<--- this is not directed at you or anyone leadhead my friend just a general statement as is all of my statements that would ever sound any bit rude or less then respectful. I never direct that at anyone but speak to only the people who the shoe fits for lol.

 

[needtogetaas]

Well, I'm going to have to go on record as disagreeing with a few of my colleagues here.

The truth of the matter is that it DOES NOT take weeks for steroids to reach peak levels, for the very fact that they have a half life of only 14 days. (Give or take depending on the ester). It's not like the first few injections won't work. Of course, the second week will be stronger because you'll still have some of the ester from the first week active. But by week 3, you're not ADDING anything. You're just maintaining a certain level if dosing is the same.

Short esters are of NO ADDITIONAL VALUE to a short cycle because you still need to have a stable level. Sure Prop gives you a bigger hot for a shorter time, but it doesn't matter in a 4 week cycle because you still have to take it at least every 48 hours. After 48 hours it's gone.

The reason certain drugs like EQ take longer to SEEMINGLY "reach stable levels" is because the effects are mild and it takes time to notice them. But you grow every bit as much muscle in week two as you do in week 10 -- maybe more. It's just that you NOTICE the culmination of all the gain when there's more of it.

I hope that makes it clear.

Well I would like to see one single test that shows that it does not take time to reach peak levels of all the different esters and steroids bro.. No in my experence I have seen a billion that show it takes time for these drugs to build up in the system..

SO we will have to agree to disagree until the day comes I see a study showing that when I inject test-e today I am now at peak levels tomorrow lmao.. NOT EVER GOING TO HAPPEN>>> But hey who knows.

I f what you were saying is true that you reach peak blood levels of any steroids no matter what ester is attached to it within 24 hours or evena fucking week. Well then what the fuck is the point of esters at all then? Why did the drug companies even invent esters in the first place what was the reasoning? Why keep using them? Their very creation is for the purpose of prolonging a drugs effect, quickening a drugs effects , causing a more stable "rise" and or "fall" in hormone levels.

Most Medical professionals( I know this is not saying much lmao) would agree that sky rocketing your test or any hormone for that matter into super high levels overnight can cause some problems. This is one of the major reasons they have created slow releaseesters ... To prevent a massive increase and to allow the hormone to rise slowly...

so what you are saying is 50 years of doing everything they can to perilously create a ester or version of a drug that slowly reaches peak levels not all at once is all a pile of shit?? lmao

The put billions of dollars worth of research and drug development into creating a drug that would not reach peak levels quickly... and after all that they failed ... You inject test ethenate today and hit peak levels tomorrow?? I doubt it