Bodybuilding truth

[BlackStan]

Hey man it's just my two cents. I respect Nelson, he seems like a person who knows what he's talking about unlike some other guys here so I just asked him a question. I don't have any business with you and I don't care about your opinion. If you just want to ban me or whatever will make you feel powerful then go ahead

 

[Judo Tom]

@Judo Tom
I'm doing nothing but discussing my friend. What's with the sudden heat ? Check this out. Sustanon contains 4 esters that all start acting at the same time according to what Mr. Montana said as do all other steroids (start acting immediately). Sustanon is designed to last in your system for about a month as is Testosterone Enanthate. If both drugs start acting immediately when they are injected that would mean that they are the same right ? Do you get it now or how precise do I have to be ? I understand that you want to compliment your buddy stevesmi with valuable arguments but you just don't have any mate. Instead of putting bombs on my profile or whatever that is, act like an adult and state some science like I did instead of offending me.

Cheers

you obviously dont understand how esters function

all four esters do in fact start to work at the same time. all of them.. how about this.. why dont you tell us what you think is happening.. do the long esters go hide? can you explain the release rate and how these esters become available?

lets say that you had a test blend with four ester each with 100mg of the esters

all four start working immediately once they hit the blood stream however the short esters will be fully used or used up much quicker. the long esters do START to work immediately but they will last longer and released or become active at a much slower rate.

I can get more technical if that will help or I can talk in even more plain terms is that will help you understand how these things work


so dont worry about the bombs.. first worry about your attitude and then start worrying about learning a thing or two before you state things as fact when they are CLEARLY wrong.

you have a lot to learn and this is the place to do it so I hope for your sake you are able to stick around a learn some of the basics

 

[stevesmi]

Hey man it's just my two cents. I respect Nelson, he seems like a person who knows what he's talking about unlike some other guys here so I just asked him a question. I don't have any business with you and I don't care about your opinion. If you just want to ban me or whatever will make you feel powerful then go ahead

you have been here a whole week and made a dozen posts, I hardly think that makes you the authority on who is a good mod and who isn't. so let us run the site pretty please and you worry about sharing and gaining knowledge. you can ignore my advice or opinions, that is fine... just show some respect and you will be accepted into the EF family. your attitude screams of an alter trying to stir up trouble, I am always willing to give guys the benefit of the doubt though. I apologize if you thought I was mad at you, I was merely defending my points and trying to debate... but you kept putting words in my mouth and suggesting a mod gives harmful advice which doesn't speak to highly of the people who gave me this position and will not be tolerated. if i see you putting down staff or saying their knowledge is subpar again that is the quickest way to get shown the door.
the negative karma I will diffuse now and hopefully you will get back on point as this is a very good debate. any time someone is new and starts throwing darts at senior members they usually are an alter here to start trouble, and the board doesn't take too nicely to that stuff, so that is why people are giving you a hard time. I think if you go back and re-read the thread you will see that

 

[needtogetaas]

BlackStan My friend first off your are being pretty damn disrespectful to people so I am only going to tell you 1 time to ton it done. If not my mods have full authority to ban you the next time you sling some attitude and act like a child like you have been... So speak to people with some respect. Then lets discus how wrong you are as well as provide some prof for how wrong you are.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/a...lic-steroids-oral-steroids-cycles-644727.html
The subject of all oral cycles has been covered here in this thread I made. All the people saying all oral cycles do not work are completely retarded the prof is in the pudding.

http://www.elitefitness.com/forum/anabolic-steroids/real-deal-712235.html
all oral cycle of deiselbolan 2 oral steroid combo. This man gained over 40lb of pure muscle with before and after pics to prove it..
SO if you like pictures BlackStan then there you go prof in the pudding now drop the subject you are wrong and and you are the one who is ill informed no questions about it....
There is so much more to gaining muscle then just your test levels. You talk a good talk but you think you know more then ou really do lmao.

 

[jthom44]

Ok cool guys can someone get back on track with me on a 4 week cycle. I thought you were about to go to blows. I'm just tring to get good information that's all. Dident mean to steer things up. PCT can you do without it for such a short cycle? Can I use supplemts from ntbm site for PCT? I'm only going to do sus ever 3day. My guy just gave me my HCG. Well it turned out to be hgh pin. I have Proviron on hand 25mg. 40 ea. I don't think I'll need the HCG for a short cyc. Not sure. Please help me out guys.
Jtom44

 

[Judo Tom]

do you only have sust for test? if so I would not use that for a 3/4 week cycle.. the esters just linger too long.. get some prop if you wanna run test in the short cycle.

dbol/prov for 3/4 weeks would be fine and recovery would be NP.

for pct post cycle / unleashed from ntbm is great. and if you run that for 4 weeks you will breeze through pct and keep your gains and start or keeping making gains again very quickly

 

[benchingover500]

The short cycle approach is still the most misunderstood concept in bodybuilding. (Technically, it's 4 weeks, but let's get to the point).

Right off the bat, there's still this myth that a drug takes weeks to "kick in." That is patently false. A drug does not sit around and do nothing until a certain amount of time passes. It is active immediately. Short acting esters do not act quicker, they simply don't last as long. And oral gives full dosage immediate effect for a very short time and they are recomened in a short cycle.

Just because you may not "feel" a difference or gain much weight, doesn;t mean your body hasn't experienced an anabolic effect. Besides, an experienced trainer will feel the effects of steroids within a few days. If you don't... you simply don't know how to train.That's the cold hard truth. It's a common problem. People learn more about drugs than they do about training.

Short cycles are not meant to put on 20 pounds, reason being, you can;t hold 20 pounds naturally. This is why guys go back on after a few weeks or just do low dosaes and call it a "bridge." They should call it "bullshit" because that's what it is. They're kidding themselves.

The FEWER pounds you gain, the more of them you can keep in a natural state. Short cycles are like adjunct to natural training -- to give a little boost a few times a year. Also, sInce recovery is easy, there's little loss of gains.

People complain and deride short cycles because they don't provide the satisfaction of big ass cycles. But in the long run, they're more effective.

People MUST stop thinking in terms of what the pros use. The pros aren't looking to build muscle over the long run. They're looking to peak for one day. And they're genetic freaks. And most of them off season look like tubs of shit.

These days with better PCT products, I think a cycle can be stretched with no ill effects to 6, maybe even 8 weeks -- which is what a typical cycle was back in the 70's and 80's. And personally, a lot of those guys looked pretty damn awesome.

This makes no sense to me because when you give a patient any drug you need to first reach therapeutic levels. While it is true that a drug starts to mediate an effect once it reaches its target, not all drugs have the same volume of distribution and there are many drugs that we prescribe that take on the order of 4-8 weeks to reach therapeutic levels. So I am not sure what the goal is when using a drug an sub-optimal doses or sub-optimal levels to get the desired outcome.

 

[stevesmi]

^^^ this is what you should do.. keep in mind the sustanon will be working in the body for 7 weeks so that will effect when you start PCT.

i always recommend you either run hcgenerate or hcg on cycle (heck together they are money in the bank) to keep the nuts plump. run the hcgenerate bottle and 250ius' of hcg. I also like to increase hcg while the ester is clearing up to 1000iu's 2X per week.. that would be from weeks 4-7, and I like to throw in a couple shots of HMG (but this is very optional)
then grab a bottle of unleashed and post cycle weeks 7 on till the bottles are gone. you can add 12.5mg ED of clomid for 2-3 weeks as well.

also during cycle to combat estrogen pick up a bottle of forma, you can buy that from mr supps. that works wonders at combating bloat during cycle

I will be running a similar cycle myself but it will be a tad longer and this is my strategy.

 

[stevesmi]

This makes no sense to me because when you give a patient any drug you need to first reach therapeutic levels. While it is true that a drug starts to mediate an effect once it reaches its target, not all drugs have the same volume of distribution and there are many drugs that we prescribe that take on the order of 4-8 weeks to reach therapeutic levels. So I am not sure what the goal is when using a drug an sub-optimal doses or sub-optimal levels to get the desired outcome.

it does take time for the drug to build up in the system fully, but what nelson is saying that it starts working immediately is true. in fact with sustanon I typically see a difference within days on my lifts.. for example the same weight i was pushing 6 times, i will be able to push 7 or 8 times.. there isn't a difference when i look in the mirror of course lol. but it is evident the stuff is working especially if you are aware of exactly how much weight for how many reps you can push.

example was on tren ace.. i felt the effects very quick, however the bigtime strength gains came around week 4, that was when things really took off but I also started getting pumps as well.. i have a log up. so running tren ace for example 6 weeks is a good idea. this will ensure you get good bang but also you aren't running it so long that it will be hard to recover.

I think people are not understanding the concept behind what Nelson is saying! the main point he is making is that shorter cycles are easier to recover from. rather than running long cycles... when we finish a cycle we are always excited to start our next cycle, so keeping the cycles short will help do that

 

[jthom44]

I have deca as well is that better for shorter cyc.