Bodybuilding truth

[Draxgear]

I can explain that dose black. 10mg of dbol beats your natural test production by a long shot, double that and you're talkin some decent test boosting. I ran 20 mg Ed with another 5-10mg 45 mins before training on training days and I gained 11lbs on a 4 week cycle. 50mg+ Ed IMO is a waste, or the person just doesn't know how to train and eat properly. Also I had minimal bloating and kept really lean and I didn't even have Proviron to help that so I can just imagine. That would be an awesome stack for a 4 week stint.

 

[stevesmi]

The short cycle approach is still the most misunderstood concept in bodybuilding. (Technically, it's 4 weeks, but let's get to the point).

Right off the bat, there's still this myth that a drug takes weeks to "kick in." That is patently false. A drug does not sit around and do nothing until a certain amount of time passes. It is active immediately. Short acting esters do not act quicker, they simply don't last as long. And oral gives full dosage immediate effect for a very short time and they are recomened in a short cycle.

Just because you may not "feel" a difference or gain much weight, doesn;t mean your body hasn't experienced an anabolic effect. Besides, an experienced trainer will feel the effects of steroids within a few days. If you don't... you simply don't know how to train.That's the cold hard truth. It's a common problem. People learn more about drugs than they do about training.

Short cycles are not meant to put on 20 pounds, reason being, you can;t hold 20 pounds naturally. This is why guys go back on after a few weeks or just do low dosaes and call it a "bridge." They should call it "bullshit" because that's what it is. They're kidding themselves.

The FEWER pounds you gain, the more of them you can keep in a natural state. Short cycles are like adjunct to natural training -- to give a little boost a few times a year. Also, sInce recovery is easy, there's little loss of gains.

People complain and deride short cycles because they don't provide the satisfaction of big ass cycles. But in the long run, they're more effective.

People MUST stop thinking in terms of what the pros use. The pros aren't looking to build muscle over the long run. They're looking to peak for one day. And they're genetic freaks. And most of them off season look like tubs of shit.

quote]

excellent post Nelson and I've figured this out myself through experience, all points you made are accurate

 

[stevesmi]

I can explain that dose black. 10mg of dbol beats your natural test production by a long shot, double that and you're talkin some decent test boosting. I ran 20 mg Ed with another 5-10mg 45 mins before training on training days and I gained 11lbs on a 4 week cycle. 50mg+ Ed IMO is a waste, or the person just doesn't know how to train and eat properly. Also I had minimal bloating and kept really lean and I didn't even have Proviron to help that so I can just imagine. That would be an awesome stack for a 4 week stint.

dbol/proviron stack is incredible, try it next time around.

50mg dbol just makes me feel like shit and gives me sides, you are correct in that 20-30mg a day is all you need.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Every now and then someone likes to shock the bodybuilding world with yet another sensation.

@stevesmi. Are you telling me you are running oral only cycles ? And what's with the HIV patient D-bol dose ?

"also sustanon starts working within hours, it doesn't take weeks. no AAS takes week to 'kick in'.. this is a myth. and yes it keeps working 3 weeks after cause of the long ester it has."

If that was true why would you inject a 4 ester mix instead of just one longer acting like Test Enanthate ? I want to hear your argument on this one.

What are you asking? Why did they make Sustanon? That has nothing to do with the effectiveness of short cycles.

 

[BlackStan]

@stevesmi - One more time = Are you running oral only cycles ? I would like to comment on your picture but I wouldn't since I don't have one uploaded and I don't want to be a talk the talk. After this cycle is over I'll be sure to put one on though.

@Nelson Montana
No I'm not asking why did they make Sustanon. Assuming what you are saying is true then there would be no difference between taking Sustanon and Test Enanthate since the drug kicks in as soon as it is injected. All 4 esters would count for one shot of 250 mg as they all start working at the same time which would be the same as injecting 250mg of Test E

@draxgear
The healthy male body produces between 2 and 11g of testosterone per day depending on various factors. UG d-bol contains between 2 and 6mg of Methandrostenolone per 10mg tablet. Even if it had the full 10mg (assuming a pill does not contain any starch or other stabilizers to form the actual pill) it would still never beat your natural testosterone production let alone by a long shot. A methane tablet is neither stomach resistant nor the whole contents survive the first liver pass so out of 10mg tablet one would expect to absorb 3-5mg of Methandrostenolone. Gaining 11lbs means nothing, I've had gains of 33lbs achieved for just 2-3 weeks but that's just water and fat and just a tiny bit of muscle. Even professional bodybuilders gain between 22-33 lbs of lean mass per YEAR. Let alone the fact that oral only cycles are a total waste of good steroids. You can never achieve stable testosterone levels in your blood with orals and that's exactly what you need to grow since the process doesn't take just your workout but a lot more

 

[stevesmi]

@draxgear
The healthy male body produces between 2 and 11g of testosterone per day depending on various factors. UG d-bol contains between 2 and 6mg of Methandrostenolone per 10mg tablet. Even if it had the full 10mg (assuming a pill does not contain any starch or other stabilizers to form the actual pill) it would still never beat your natural testosterone production let alone by a long shot. A methane tablet is neither stomach resistant nor the whole contents survive the first liver pass so out of 10mg tablet one would expect to absorb 3-5mg of Methandrostenolone. Gaining 11lbs means nothing, I've had gains of 33lbs achieved for just 2-3 weeks but that's just water and fat and just a tiny bit of muscle. Even professional bodybuilders gain between 22-33 lbs of lean mass per YEAR. Let alone the fact that oral only cycles are a total waste of good steroids. You can never achieve stable testosterone levels in your blood with orals and that's exactly what you need to grow since the process doesn't take just your workout but a lot more

you are so wrong and so offbase I don't even know where to start, but I will address one of your points. you grow on AAS cause they are anabolic and androgenic which provides an environment in the body condusive to growth. you don't need 'stable testosterone levels' as you put it to grow. ultimately you are saying that you can only grow on testosterone in a cycle... oh really? is that why people who run superdrol gain 15-20 pounds on their bench in 4 weeks ? i suppose you will come back now and say that they don't, well anyone who has run superdrol or dbol will tell you that they did. (assuming of course they have their diet and workouts in place) oral only cycles are totally fine, debating this either proves you are a troll or you are very misinformed.

 

[jthom44]

Thanks Nelson I didn't mean to start a heated debate. Wow. I'm looking to do short cycles with little as possible drugs. My body reacts well to any drugs. So if I do a short cycle say 4 weeks what will my PCT need to be. I'm only going to do sus 1 ml every 3 Ed day. I have Proviron and HCG on hand. My workout buddy says that I need to take the Proviron 25mg from day one of injection. The whole cycle. I really don't thinks so. What's your thinking on this? I've got the anabolic bible book and it's got very good information in it. But not much on short cycles. Are PCT supplements like on ntbm site good enuff for short cycles? I work in Saudi and stuff here hard to get and costs. So if I can get away with supplements for PCT then cool. Ok thanks for all the feel back so far. I think I will post my start and finish stats in the other blog. Ginne pig so to say. I'll try to add pictures I only have an iPad I've tried to add pictures before with o luck but I'll try again. Ok thanks guys.
The only easy day was yesterday. This phrase got me through hard times in Iraq. I just don't say it I lived it. Ok thanks guys.
Jtom44

 

[Judo Tom]

@stevesmi - One more time = Are you running oral only cycles ? I would like to comment on your picture but I wouldn't since I don't have one uploaded and I don't want to be a talk the talk. After this cycle is over I'll be sure to put one on though.

@Nelson Montana
No I'm not asking why did they make Sustanon. Assuming what you are saying is true then there would be no difference between taking Sustanon and Test Enanthate since the drug kicks in as soon as it is injected. All 4 esters would count for one shot of 250 mg as they all start working at the same time which would be the same as injecting 250mg of Test E

@draxgear
The healthy male body produces between 2 and 11g of testosterone per day depending on various factors. UG d-bol contains between 2 and 6mg of Methandrostenolone per 10mg tablet. Even if it had the full 10mg (assuming a pill does not contain any starch or other stabilizers to form the actual pill) it would still never beat your natural testosterone production let alone by a long shot. A methane tablet is neither stomach resistant nor the whole contents survive the first liver pass so out of 10mg tablet one would expect to absorb 3-5mg of Methandrostenolone. Gaining 11lbs means nothing, I've had gains of 33lbs achieved for just 2-3 weeks but that's just water and fat and just a tiny bit of muscle. Even professional bodybuilders gain between 22-33 lbs of lean mass per YEAR. Let alone the fact that oral only cycles are a total waste of good steroids. You can never achieve stable testosterone levels in your blood with orals and that's exactly what you need to grow since the process doesn't take just your workout but a lot more

this is one of the worst posts ive read in a long time

1 steve doesnt run oral only cycles.. he mentioned it 2 posts ago.. are you reading or just looking to start drama...

2 nelson didnt say anything along the lines of what you posted...he said they start working instantly but esters make it last longer.. maybe math is your problem not your attitude.. but maybe its both...

3rd.. oh boy thats a lot.. oral only cycles are not a waste.. name some pros that are putting on 20lbs of muscle a year.. for more then 2 years... cant obtain steady levels.. false.. again back to this math issue.. and you DONT NEED stable levels to build muscle.. many will say its better but it is not necessary.. again if you are not growing off 30mg of dbol you have diet or training issues to work on.

but i dont think you care at all about discussing or learning... wonder why you are really here at all.. if you know it all and have that attitude you might prefer a different board to hang out on... if you are open to learning/discussing then you need to change the attitude quickly

 

[BlackStan]

I'm not mad stevesmi, and you were right to warn me as I did not read the rules back then. In fact even if you had banned me you would still be right.
The only one who is mad right now is you and I have no idea why. I'm not here to advocate anything either so chill.
1. AAS are a dependant factor to every serious bodybuilder. Natural Testosterone production can only bring you so far. Show me just one IFBB Pro that is training naturally.

you are so wrong and so offbase I don't even know where to start, but I will address one of your points. you grow on AAS cause they are anabolic and androgenic which provides an environment in the body condusive to growth. you don't need 'stable testosterone levels' as you put it to grow. ultimately you are saying that you can only grow on testosterone in a cycle... oh really? is that why people who run superdrol gain 15-20 pounds on their bench in 4 weeks ? i suppose you will come back now and say that they don't, well anyone who has run superdrol or dbol will tell you that they did. (assuming of course they have their diet and workouts in place) oral only cycles are totally fine, debating this either proves you are a troll or you are very misinformed.

2. You shouldn't have said that because now everyone will know that you have little knowledge on what steroids actually are.
- First of all most of the gear out there on the market is synthesized out of Testosterone or Dehydrotestosterone (which is also a testosterone derivative). This goes for your beloved Superdrol as well. But to be EVEN more clear - I was referring to Sustanon when I spoke of stable testosterone levels. If it's D-bol then we are talking about stable Methandrostenolone levels which was in fact synthesized out of Boldenone Cypionate which is yet another testosterone derivate.
- Proceeding. Of course you need "stable substance levels". Saying you don't is a pure joke. I'm now going to explain what steroid half-life is. For example D-bol's half life is 4 hours which means that if you take a 10mg pill in the morning after 4 hours you will have 5 mg left in your blood system after another 4 hours 2.5mg. But then muscle recovery continues for 3 days after a workout and you can't even cover 24 hours with d-bol. That's why in the world of serious bodybuilding oral only cycles are a taboo and D-bol is always run with Testosterone as a base. Why ? Runing oral only cycles will also cause constant peaks and lows of your endogenous testosterone levels which of course will promote aromatization. But we are also forgetting another extremely important factor - nutrition. Most of the stuff that bodybuilders eat takes about 2-4 hours to digest and absorb. With the upmentioned unstable levels of AAS in your system you will not have enough D-bol when macronutrients are digested in order to recover from your training, let alone that most of your HGH is produced while you sleep and you recover the most and you need your AAS then as well. So your theory is absolute junk.

- Also there is no such thing like "anabolic or androgenic provides an environment for anything". Proviron for example (which I also happen to like by the way) is a very powerful androgenic substance but will literally produce no gains at all even at doses over 100mg/ed. It's not that simple my friend. You need to learn more before you start giving advice that might affect people negatively. It's not about any environments, it's about hypertrophy, hyperplasia, absorption, hormonal schedules etc. etc.

@Judo Tom
I'm doing nothing but discussing my friend. What's with the sudden heat ? Check this out. Sustanon contains 4 esters that all start acting at the same time according to what Mr. Montana said as do all other steroids (start acting immediately). Sustanon is designed to last in your system for about a month as is Testosterone Enanthate. If both drugs start acting immediately when they are injected that would mean that they are the same right ? Do you get it now or how precise do I have to be ? I understand that you want to compliment your buddy stevesmi with valuable arguments but you just don't have any mate. Instead of putting bombs on my profile or whatever that is, act like an adult and state some science like I did instead of offending me.

Cheers

 

[stevesmi]

1. AAS are a dependant factor to every serious bodybuilder. Natural Testosterone production can only bring you so far. Show me just one IFBB Pro that is training naturally.

never said pro's don't juice, again you love to put words in my mouth. of course they juice, again you missed my point. I am not a pro bodybuilder, I have a real job as do most of us on this forum.. I am very certain I do not have the genetics do ever be a pro and that is OKAY, in this sport we all have different genetics and goals. I bodybuild as a hobby, I am a gym rat. 95% of steroid users are gym rats trying to get an edge in the gym, 5% are athletes.


2. You shouldn't have said that because now everyone will know that you have little knowledge i\on what steroids actually are.
- First of all most of the gear out there on the market is synthesized out of Testosterone or Dehydrotestosterone (which is also a testosterone derivative). This goes for your beloved Superdrol as well. But to be EVEN more clear - I was referring to Sustanon when I spoke of stable testosterone levels. If it's D-bol then we are talking about stable Methandrostenolone levels which was in fact synthesized out of Boldenone Cypionate which is yet another testosterone derivate.
well then i apologize for mis-understanding your prior post. sustanon vs. cyp is another debate, one which I also have an opinion of cause I have used both.... you on the other hand never used orals by themselves or used superdrol/beastdrol so how can you judge if they work or not? you can't

- Proceeding. Of course you need "stable substance levels". Saying you don't is a pure joke.
you do NOT need it.
I'm now going to explain what steroid half-life is. For example D-bol's half life is 4 hours which means that if you take a 10mg pill in the morning after 4 hours you will have 5 mg left in your blood system after another 4 hours 2.5mg.
half life doesn't necessarily mean how long AAS keeps working in the body (deca has a 2 week half life and anyone who has run it will attest it keeps working much longer than that, more like 5 weeks) and even if your theory was true it would be impossible to achieve that. yes i recommend taking dbol split up throughout the day, when did i say otherwise?

But then muscle recovery continues for 3 days after a workout and you can't even cover 24 hours with d-bol. That's why in the world of serious bodybuilding oral only cycles are a taboo and D-bol is always run with Testosterone as a base. Why ? Runing oral only cycles will also cause constant peaks and lows of your endogenous testosterone levels which of course will promote aromatization.
oh boy. so i suppose testosterone doesn't aromatize right?
But we are also forgetting another extremely important factor - nutrition. Most of the stuff that bodybuilders eat takes about 2-4 hours to digest and absorb. With the upmentioned unstable levels of AAS in your system you will not have enough D-bol when macronutrients are digested in order to recover from your training, let alone that most of your HGH is produced while you sleep and you recover the most and you need your AAS then as well. So your theory is absolute junk.
what is my theory exactly? that orals alone work? I think 99.9% of people on this forum would disagree, we must all be idiots i guess

- Also there is no such thing like "anabolic or androgenic provides an environment for anything". Proviron for example (which I also happen to like by the way) is a very powerful androgenic substance but will literally produce no gains at all even at doses over 100mg/ed.
when did i say to run proviron alone? lol dude you are too much for me. I've written about proviron many times and said you need to stack it, its androgenic so it needs to be stacked with something anabolic... go back like 3 posts, i said run proviron WITH dbol. my gawd you like to pull bs out of thin air don't you? by itself it DOES work as a DHT, so don't say it does nothing though and take me for a fool. but yes it has to be stacked to get the true benefits.
It's not that simple my friend. You need to learn more before you start giving advice that might affect people negatively. It's not about any envirnoments, it's about hypertrophy, hyperplasia, absorption, hormonal schedules etc. etc.
I don't claim to know it all, anyone who does is full of themselves.. I study this stuff everyday and i dedicate hours a week to it cause its awesome, and i try to help people on a daily basis not make mistakes and screw up.. nutrition, health, fitness continues to evolve all the time so to claim you know it all and someone else doesn't is a very ignorant thing to say.

@Judo Tom
I'm doing nothing but discussing my friend. What's with the sudden heat ? Check this out. Sustanon contains 4 esters that all start acting at the same time according to what Mr. Montana said as do all other steroids (start acting immediately).
guess what? Mr. Montana is correct. sustanon starts working IMMEDIATELY.
Sustanon is designed to last in your system for about a month as is Testosterone Enanthate.
half life is 21 days on the long ester of sustanon, it also contains 2 short esters, and an additional 8 day ester. Test E is 14 days. If both drugs start acting immediately when they are injected that would mean that they are the same right ?
they are both testosterone, they just have different esters.
Do you get it now or how precise do I have to be ?
no you honestly just are blabbing and taking what people are saying and twisting it around and trying to sound smart, but you really aren't providing any substance.
I understand that you want to compliment your buddy stevesmi with valuable arguments but you just don't have any mate.
Judo and I have disagreed before as have I an Nelson, the difference is we respect each others knowledge and are open minded. I have tried some of Nelson's techniques in his book and they have helped me wonderfully. specifically his advice on calf and bicep work. I am always OPEN to trying new things

Cheers

coming on here and starting trouble with Nelson and other vets right off the bat your first few posts on the site. this forum is home to us, you are a guest and you will respect our rules and members or we will show you the door.