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Bodybuilding truth
- Thread starter jthom44
- Start date
okay I was thinking about this thread and what has been said by all sides. here are 3 questions to chew on playing devils advocate, I am curious to everyones opinion on these.
1. if you were to run tren ace or deca alone for 6 weeks for example... what would your test levels be after a week? after 5 weeks? higher or lower?
2. jmat said he ran test and he had a higher test level at 8 weeks then 2 weeks, say that his injections were the same time before the test all things being equal wouldn't workouts, diets, sleep and stresss etc. cause test levels to fluctuate all the time?
3. and those of you who say that peak levels are reached at X time, do you believe that peak levels of testosterone equals the most muscle gains? or would you agree that someone who has a 800 test level but who doesn't workout won't gain as much muscle as someone with 400 who does?
1. if you were to run tren ace or deca alone for 6 weeks for example... what would your test levels be after a week? after 5 weeks? higher or lower?
2. jmat said he ran test and he had a higher test level at 8 weeks then 2 weeks, say that his injections were the same time before the test all things being equal wouldn't workouts, diets, sleep and stresss etc. cause test levels to fluctuate all the time?
3. and those of you who say that peak levels are reached at X time, do you believe that peak levels of testosterone equals the most muscle gains? or would you agree that someone who has a 800 test level but who doesn't workout won't gain as much muscle as someone with 400 who does?
needtogetaas
New member
well i would like to see one single test that shows that it does not take time to reach peak levels of all the different esters and steroids bro.. No in my experence i have seen a billion that show it takes time for these drugs to build up in the system..
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So you'e saying that if someone take 500 mgs of test a week, their t level will be higher at week 15 than at week 5? I'd like to see those studies. Because i don't think that'd be the case.
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No I am saying that if they take 500mg of test a week their test levels will be higher at week 6 then they are at week 2... and yes we have seen 50 billion studies that show this.
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So we will have to agree to disagree until the day comes i see a study showing that when i inject test-e today i am now at peak levels tomorrow lmao.. Not ever going to happen>>> but hey who knows.
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that's not what i said. But after 2 weeks -- yes. You're as high as you;re going to go.
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SO then by your standards you reach peak levels at week two then wy stop only at week 3 lmao or even week 4 for that matter. By your standards Nelson when do the gains start to diminish then?
As everyone who has ever ran a cycle ever as experienced first hand. The entire steroid world knows and has experienced little to no gains at all the first 4 weeks of s test-e cycle and the majority of the gains from weeks 4-10.. In your steroid world nelson when would be the best gains and when do these gains taper off?
It is kind of hard to argue with the persinal experence of what? 50 trillion past steroid users who will all tell you flat out they gained the least amount during the first 4 weeks of a test-e cycle and the most during weeks 4-10.. That is the experience of fucking every damn one. HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT THEN NELSON LMAO??????? Some times I do believe you just pick the most absolutely off the wall shit to argue about simple because no one in the god damn world would agree with you. SO you know its going to make for a awesome long as thread lmao..
I f what you were saying is true that you reach peak blood levels of any steroids no matter what ester is attached to it within 24 hours or evena fucking week. Well then what the fuck is the point of esters at all then? Why did the drug companies even invent esters in the first place what was the reasoning?
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two reasons -- more stable levels and less required injections. Most people want to inject as infrequently as possible.
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Ok well we both know that testosterone ethenate was created long before prop was. And longer still before acetate was. So why would they go backwards and invent shorter esters?
If that is the case then then everyone should all be using testosterone undocylanate then. 1 inject every 30 days fuck every other steroid created then.
Most medical professionals( i know this is not saying much lmao) would agree that sky rocketing your test or any hormone for that matter into super high levels overnight can cause some problems.
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[color="red"]i agree. But that's not really the issue here.[/color]
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This is one of the major reasons they have created slow releaseesters ... to prevent a massive increase and to allow the hormone to rise slowly...
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exactly, but it still only goes so high and then back down. After 2 weeks that drugs hasn't "built up" in your system.. It's gone.
It takes longer then 2 weeks. as I stated you and I have been on these forums for decades and we have both seen people take a blood test 2 weeks into a cycle and then again 8 weeks into a cycle and every single last mother fucking one of them have had test that show test levels are higher at week 8 then they are at week 2... You can argue what time they took the injection at or what day but this is not just one test showing it, not just 100 or even a thousand. Every mother fucking last one of them bro every single one.... So I guess every single person on earth who has ever taken a blood test 2-3-4 weeks into a test cycle and then again 7-8-10 weeks in and every single time it shows test levels are higher then the first time. WHAT??? every single time it was a fluke??
Nelson that is just simple nuts to think that just plan nuts. the facts are insurmountable against your theory bro. Not just a little but insurmountable
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So what you are saying is 50 years of doing everything they can to perilously create a ester or version of a drug that slowly reaches peak levels not all at once is all a pile of shit?? Lmao
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no, i'm saying they did it for a very good reason! Lmao
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The put billions of dollars worth of research and drug development into creating a drug that would not reach peak levels quickly... And after all that they failed ... You inject test ethenate today and hit peak levels tomorrow?? I doubt it
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what about orals? They peak in 2 hours. That's the way the drugs work. That's a fact.
Yes orals do and so does test suspension too but we are talking about long esters here not short esters and or orals. I do not feel you reach "peak" level of a oral the same day you start taking them ether for that matter.
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lets just pretend that you are right for a second. Even if you reached peak levels of test no matter what ester attached in 2 weeks time ( which every last shred of evidence in the world proves wrong) We still have literally thousands of other mechanisms within the body at play here nelson and not all of them are firing 100% at 2 weeks into a cycle ...STEROID HORMONES have a multitude of biological targets hormonal and nero as on the muscle, in the brain, and every last nook and cranny of the bosy. Not just an anabolic effects on skeletal muscle and even that anabolic effect is so much more complex then just the level of testosterone in your blood.
Most steroid Androgens actions are mediated by binding to there respective androgen receptor, which is localized to the cytoplasmic compartment of target cells (but of course you knew this already). Unbound androgen receptors are maintained in a hetero-complex with chaperone albumen . Heat shock protein legislates the ligand binding affinity of the androgen receptor by preserving the receptor in a high-affinity ligand-binding conformation, which is conducive to efficient stable hormonal response.
All of this does happen within the first administration of a androgen however even this process its self does not "peak" out even after blood levels of testosterone or an androgen is peaked. This is a process that gradually builds higher and higher as time goes by and androgen levels keep raising..
Ligand binding induces a conformational change that facilitates unmasking of the nuclear localization signal Translocation of the ligand-activated androgen receptor to the nucleus is induced by localization signal Translocation binding to importin albumens . In the nucleus this complex can bind androgen response elements and collaborate with the transcription initiation complex . Androgen receptor regulation is extremely complex and dependent on both tissue-specific and developmental regulation . The androgen receptor can also be activated in the absence of ligand, and cellular signaling pathways can also modulate androgen receptor actions . Insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1), keratinocyte growth factor (KGF), and epidermal growth factor (EGF) can induce androgen-independent activation of the androgen receptor .
Androgen receptor protein expression and ligand binding capacity are increased in functionally overloaded rat skeletal muscle. The skeletal muscle androgen receptor may exert both ligand-dependent and -independent actions in functionally overloaded skeletal muscle, which may be related to growth factor signaling . IGF-I and muscle DNA content are also increased in overloaded skeletal muscle . Rat soleus and plantaris muscles respond quickly to functional overload by increasing muscle mass after 1 wk, and this growth continues for several additional weeks As much as 21 weeks depending on the androgen. Functional overload also stimulates a rapid remodeling response in rat hindlimb muscle, which includes structural damage, myofiber growth, satellite cell activation, and immune cell infiltration . Each of these responses has been hypothesized to be important for the large increases in muscle mass and protein induced by functional overload and although it is not completely understood how this happens we do know that it can take as much as 7 weeks after peak androgen levels for the process to crown and then decline.
Androgens can also influence muscle DNA content, inducing myonuclei accumulation in the rat levator ani muscle . This induction is thought to be mediated by the proliferation of muscle satellite cells.
Nelson even if what you are saying is true ( which it is not) the influence steroids have on muscle satellite cells through
cellular signaling pathways also does not reach top levels within 2 weeks of injecting testosterone ethenate my friend.
Although muscle androgen receptor expression is sensitive to both circulating androgen and mechanical stimuli, the regulation of muscle-specific gene expression by this receptor-ligand complex is something far beyond simple androgen levels peak concentration levels. Of course the process starts as soon as androgen bind to AR's but as time goes on and levels go up more signaling is activated each week and I would venture to say the magic of all this does not cap out at the 2 week mark during a testosterone ethenate cycle or even after one reaches peak levels of any steroid for that matter. No my friend IMO I feel this is much more complex then that and can take much longer then this.
All Anabolic steroids are structural derivatives of testosterone that can increase skeletal muscle mass protein synthesis , myonuclei accumulation, and IGF expression among many other mechanisms of action. The entire process is way more complex " o we reached peak levels of this hormone" and braking steroid cycles down into something that simple is not only foolish but overlooking many factors at play..
I know its a nice marketing gimmick however for this old cat I am not buying it and I never will...
Have a great day and I hope everyone has enjoyed this awesome thread.
NEEDTO SAID...
No I am saying that if they take 500mg of test a week their test levels will be higher at week 6 then they are at week 2... and yes we have seen 50 billion studies that show this.
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I THINK THERE'S A MISUNDERSTANDING HERE. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ONE STUDY THAT SHOWS THAT. I'M ON HRT. IF TESTOSTERONE BUILT UP IN THE BODY WHY WOULDN'T MY BLOOD TEST SHOW INCREASES EVERY TIME I TESTED?
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SO then by your standards you reach peak levels at week two then wy stop only at week 3 lmao or even week 4 for that matter. By your standards Nelson when do the gains start to diminish then?
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I THINK THERE'S A MISUNDERSTANDING REGARDING "PEAK." THE DRUG CAN PEAK, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'VE REACHED YOUR PEAK IN MUSCLE GROWTH. GRAIN DO START TO SLOW DOWN AFTER 6 WEEK.S THE REASON FOR THE 4 WEEK CYCLE WAS TO RECOVER BUT NOW WITH BETTER PCT, I BELIEVE ON ECAN DO A 6 WEEK CYCLE WITH NO PROBLEM.
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As everyone who has ever ran a cycle ever as experienced first hand. The entire steroid world knows and has experienced little to no gains at all the first 4 weeks of s test-e cycle and the majority of the gains from weeks 4-10.. In your steroid world nelson when would be the best gains and when do these gains taper off?
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THAT'S NOT SO. ANYONE WHO'S EVER DONE A CYCLE KNOWS YOU CAN INCREASE YOUR LIFTS AFTER A WEEK.
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It is kind of hard to argue with the persinal experence of what? 50 trillion past steroid users who will all tell you flat out they gained the least amount during the first 4 weeks of a test-e cycle and the most during weeks 4-10..
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AGAIN, I THINK YOU'RE MISSING WHAT I'M SAYING. OF COURSE YOU GAIN THE LEAST IN THE BEGINNING BECAUSE THE LONGER YOU STAY ON THE MORE YOU ACCUMULATE. THINK OF IT LIKE THIS -- LETS SAY YOU HAVE A BIG BUCKET AND YOU POUR A GLASS OF WATER IN IT EVERY DAY. THEN AFTER 7 DAYS YOU POUR 1/2 GLASS OF WHATER IN IT. THEN AFTER 14 DAYS YOU POUR 1/4 OF A GLASS OF WATER IN IT. WELL , AT THE END OF 21 DAYS THERE'S MORE WATER IN IT THAN AFTER 7 DAYS. BUT MORE WATER WAS GOING IN IT THE FIRST 7 DAYS. GET IT NOW?
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That is the experience of fucking every damn one. HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT THEN NELSON LMAO???????
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I JUST DID. LMAO.
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Some times I do believe you just pick the most absolutely off the wall shit to argue about simple because no one in the god damn world would agree with you. SO you know its going to make for a awesome long as thread lmao..
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NOPE. SCIENCE MY FRIEND. PURE SCIENCE.
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Ok well we both know that testosterone ethenate was created long before prop was. And longer still before acetate was. So why would they go backwards and invent shorter esters?
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THEY MADE LOTS OF STEROIDS LATER THAT WEREN'T AS GOOD AS THE EARLIER ONES. THERE IS AN ADVANTAGE TO PROP IN THAT BECAUSE IT'S A SHORTER ACYING ESTER, THERE'S ACTUALLY MORE AVAILABLE DRUG PER DOSAGE. AND THE HIT COMES ALL AT ONCE. BUT IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS, BEING A CYCLE THAT LASTS WEEKS, THERE'S LITTLE ADVANTAGE TO IT. HELL, SOME DOCTORS STILL GIVE B 12 SHOYS AND THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR THEM OTHER THAN TO GET THE B12 INTO YOUR SYSTEM IMMEDIATELY AND THERE ISN'T A SINGLE REASON WHERE THAT WOULD BE NECESSARY EXCEPT FOR DANGEROUSLY LOW MALNUTRITION.
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If that is the case then then everyone should all be using testosterone undocylanate then. 1 inject every 30 days fuck every other steroid created then.
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WELL YEAH, THAT'D BE GREAT IF YOU COULD STAND A 4000MG SHOT! THAT'S THE PROBLEM, YOU STILL NEED A CERTAIN AMOUNT IN YOUR SYSTEM AT ALL TIMES.
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Nelson that is just simple nuts to think that just plan nuts. the facts are insurmountable against your theory bro. Not just a little but insurmountable
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NOPE. I AM CORRECT. I THINK THERE'S A MISUNDERSTANDING IN THE APPLICATION.
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No I am saying that if they take 500mg of test a week their test levels will be higher at week 6 then they are at week 2... and yes we have seen 50 billion studies that show this.
..............................
I THINK THERE'S A MISUNDERSTANDING HERE. I DON'T THINK THERE'S ONE STUDY THAT SHOWS THAT. I'M ON HRT. IF TESTOSTERONE BUILT UP IN THE BODY WHY WOULDN'T MY BLOOD TEST SHOW INCREASES EVERY TIME I TESTED?
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SO then by your standards you reach peak levels at week two then wy stop only at week 3 lmao or even week 4 for that matter. By your standards Nelson when do the gains start to diminish then?
..........................................
I THINK THERE'S A MISUNDERSTANDING REGARDING "PEAK." THE DRUG CAN PEAK, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU'VE REACHED YOUR PEAK IN MUSCLE GROWTH. GRAIN DO START TO SLOW DOWN AFTER 6 WEEK.S THE REASON FOR THE 4 WEEK CYCLE WAS TO RECOVER BUT NOW WITH BETTER PCT, I BELIEVE ON ECAN DO A 6 WEEK CYCLE WITH NO PROBLEM.
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As everyone who has ever ran a cycle ever as experienced first hand. The entire steroid world knows and has experienced little to no gains at all the first 4 weeks of s test-e cycle and the majority of the gains from weeks 4-10.. In your steroid world nelson when would be the best gains and when do these gains taper off?
................................
THAT'S NOT SO. ANYONE WHO'S EVER DONE A CYCLE KNOWS YOU CAN INCREASE YOUR LIFTS AFTER A WEEK.
.....................................................
It is kind of hard to argue with the persinal experence of what? 50 trillion past steroid users who will all tell you flat out they gained the least amount during the first 4 weeks of a test-e cycle and the most during weeks 4-10..
..................................
AGAIN, I THINK YOU'RE MISSING WHAT I'M SAYING. OF COURSE YOU GAIN THE LEAST IN THE BEGINNING BECAUSE THE LONGER YOU STAY ON THE MORE YOU ACCUMULATE. THINK OF IT LIKE THIS -- LETS SAY YOU HAVE A BIG BUCKET AND YOU POUR A GLASS OF WATER IN IT EVERY DAY. THEN AFTER 7 DAYS YOU POUR 1/2 GLASS OF WHATER IN IT. THEN AFTER 14 DAYS YOU POUR 1/4 OF A GLASS OF WATER IN IT. WELL , AT THE END OF 21 DAYS THERE'S MORE WATER IN IT THAN AFTER 7 DAYS. BUT MORE WATER WAS GOING IN IT THE FIRST 7 DAYS. GET IT NOW?
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That is the experience of fucking every damn one. HOW IN THE HELL DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT THEN NELSON LMAO???????
................................
I JUST DID. LMAO.
.....................................................
Some times I do believe you just pick the most absolutely off the wall shit to argue about simple because no one in the god damn world would agree with you. SO you know its going to make for a awesome long as thread lmao..
......................
NOPE. SCIENCE MY FRIEND. PURE SCIENCE.
...........................................
Ok well we both know that testosterone ethenate was created long before prop was. And longer still before acetate was. So why would they go backwards and invent shorter esters?
........................................
THEY MADE LOTS OF STEROIDS LATER THAT WEREN'T AS GOOD AS THE EARLIER ONES. THERE IS AN ADVANTAGE TO PROP IN THAT BECAUSE IT'S A SHORTER ACYING ESTER, THERE'S ACTUALLY MORE AVAILABLE DRUG PER DOSAGE. AND THE HIT COMES ALL AT ONCE. BUT IN THE SCHEME OF THINGS, BEING A CYCLE THAT LASTS WEEKS, THERE'S LITTLE ADVANTAGE TO IT. HELL, SOME DOCTORS STILL GIVE B 12 SHOYS AND THERE'S ABSOLUTELY NO REASON FOR THEM OTHER THAN TO GET THE B12 INTO YOUR SYSTEM IMMEDIATELY AND THERE ISN'T A SINGLE REASON WHERE THAT WOULD BE NECESSARY EXCEPT FOR DANGEROUSLY LOW MALNUTRITION.
.......................................................
If that is the case then then everyone should all be using testosterone undocylanate then. 1 inject every 30 days fuck every other steroid created then.
..........................
WELL YEAH, THAT'D BE GREAT IF YOU COULD STAND A 4000MG SHOT! THAT'S THE PROBLEM, YOU STILL NEED A CERTAIN AMOUNT IN YOUR SYSTEM AT ALL TIMES.
................................................
Nelson that is just simple nuts to think that just plan nuts. the facts are insurmountable against your theory bro. Not just a little but insurmountable
............................................
NOPE. I AM CORRECT. I THINK THERE'S A MISUNDERSTANDING IN THE APPLICATION.
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needtogetaas
New member
OK dude I can fully understand why people just get pissed or walk away from you some times.. You will come back and say just about anything just to make a argument even knowing damn well your wrong lmao its like you dont even think you just spew... Again will just agree to disagree. Your arguments make little to 0 sense at all. And I do not have the time to just keep going around the merry go round of retardation that is this conversation right now lmao... Ill walk away.
my responses in red
in bold I think where everyone is getting confused is test levels being the deciding factor whether you look good and grow vs. not. there are plenty of guys out there on TRT who look like crap but who have to take it cause they have some problem and have to go on in their teens or 20's. and there are juicers who have 1000 T levels year round who look like crap too. (i know one personally who stays on cyp year round probably has 1500+T levels and is very feminine and skinny) and vice versa there are natty guys who have 400 test levels who look great. i think that is where everyone is argueing and not seeing eye to eye on
great thread btw, where else can you talk about this stuff with fellow meatheads?
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Wow, sorry you feel that way. I'm not saying what I'm saying to be a dick bro. I have over 30 years experience in this field so to say my points make zero sense is a little insulting. I honestly think you're not understanding what I'm saying. So let's just agree to agree on that.
I also think this is an important aspect of bodybuilding enhancement and should be addressed more often.
The more that is understood, the better the results, the better the recovery and the better chance of continuing cycling without nasty side effects down the road.
But you have to understand how these things work and not just rely on myths, misconceptions and parroted misinformation.
The more that is understood, the better the results, the better the recovery and the better chance of continuing cycling without nasty side effects down the road.
But you have to understand how these things work and not just rely on myths, misconceptions and parroted misinformation.
