Please Scroll Down to See Forums Below brahma_bull
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Anyone know off hand what the RAW bench record is vs. shirted?
Bench Press
- Thread starter brahma_bull
- Start date
raw 715
shirted 1005
set by two different people
shirted 1005
set by two different people
Childish///AMG
New member
Thanx "For" sharing
DieselGunz
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Devastation said:
Insane
Completly INSANE!
brahma_bull
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DieselGunz said:
No shit
GoldenDelicious
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raw = without a bench pressing shirtjcastyo said:Okay guys I'm new to this, so don't tear me to shreds
Does raw = natural and shirted = geared ?
jc (still learning some of the terminology)
shirted = with a bench pressing shirt
(theyre specially made shirts taht are tight as all hell, and their elasticity helps you to push more weight, usually through your sticking point)
Chambewy20
New member
jcp2 said:
That's friggin awesome.
K to you!!!
jacked clown
New member
The raw is 733 and steroids in bodybuilding and shirted benches are completely different...Steroids build real muscle. I dont bring a hydraulic jack in with me when i squat to add 2000 pounds to my squat. Only thing that should be allowed in bench and squat meets are wraps for protection.
cubuff27
New member
jacked clown is right...it is a strength = lift contest...not a strength + shirt = lift. A shirt, or squat suit just takes some of the credibility out of the lift. I mean sure, it is a ton of weight and I am sure it is hard as hell, but do it without the shirt. I mean you can compare shirts in powerlifting to drugs in bodybuilding, but that is an apples an oranges comparison. Powerlifters use drugs & shirts with a definitive goal. Those who lift the most win. Bodybuilding is not a sport at all...it is a subjective art show with no real reason for winning or losing. Just because you might have the best body doesn't necessarilly mean you will win. I mean you can have a good body and 5 past Mr. Olymipia wins and you will beat someone with a great body and zero wins.
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
jacked clown said:
I gave you karma as I do agree steroids in bb and shirted benches are in fact different, but I don't agree that bench shirts or other equipment shouldn't be used in powerlifting.
I got into powerlifting after 7yrs in BB and the use of equipment was a natural progression into the sport for me, over time. It is also a protection from training for the lifts over and over again, sometimes twice weekly. Your hips would be demolished in a short time if you have no protection. It is a sport, just as one has equipment in other sports. I always have accepted it as such and never formed a negative opinion about it. Its just something that goes along with powerlifting.
-----------------
Mythicwrld
"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
The success a person achieved in life after life is over is not measured by the material items, wealth or land they acquire. But in the lives they have touched in a positive way and the people who remember them with a fondness and a smile or a tear that they are no longer.
- my brother
Illuminati
New member
cubuff27 said:
so are you saying that bber's dont use drugs for a definitive goal?
jcp2
Active member
You can be a national level powerlifter natural. You can't win a local natural bodybuilding show natural. Drug use in bodybuilding is rediculous, an completely out of hand. It is a sport you cannot enter without commiting numerous felonies. I have nothing against drug use, i am just making a point. And please don't give me the shit about drugs building real muscle. I have done them, i know if i wanted to start again i could put about 60 lbs on my raw bench with no more hard work than i am doing now and no dietary changes as long as i put about 600 mg of test into my body every week. I don't care who takes them, i lift in the APF. Just stating the truth. I have no clue why people who have no interest in powerlifting or aspirations come in here to preach their shit. Do you think i am going to stop wearing my shirt because you feel it is too much. Do you think the sport is all the sudden going to stop and re examine itself, or did you just need to get that off your chest.
jcp2
Active member
cubuff27 said:
No, you are wrong, it is a strength + shirt + suit contest. If you don't like it, tough. It is what it is. The fact of the matter is all you guys who talk about raw squats, their never has been such a thing. Squat suits have been around since the early 70's i beleive.
Tiervexx
New member
jcp2 said:
Squats have been around a lot earlier then the 70's. And even if they where invented at the same time that would mean nothing.
I post on these threads sometimes because I, like many others on this site am really fascinated by great feats of strength. There is no possible way that anyone could be genuinely interested in a bench-press, just because it's a bench-press, or in a squat, just because it's a squat. Calling those sports is comical.
What makes them interesting is the power they represent. Correct me if I’m wrong but it did not take what’s his name very long to go from 800 to 900, and then 900 to 1005. There is no way in hell he actually got that much stronger in that much time and everyone with any sense knows it.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, if the technology does not already exist to make a shirt that could make the average girl who does not even work out capable of bench-pressing 1005, it is only a matter of time before it does. We have to draw the line somewhere and the only rational point is at no equipment at all.
Steroids are another issue, one that is often much harder to keep track of. We might not be able to keep drugs out of sports but we can get rid of equipment.
kethnaab
New member
well, we need to be real up front here
EVERYONE setting records in the APF and USPF are using drugs.
and everyone who can place top 10 in the Olympia (and just about any national-level bb contest) is using drugs.
they are both using. drugs are a complete non-issue, because the playing field, in this respect, is even. To say that drugs in bodybuilding is "ridiculous" must mean that drugs in powerlifting is ridiculous as well. I won't judge either, you do what you have to do, just don't use 'em in a drug-tested event to compete against people who are trying to do it "truly natural".
a far more honest comparison, IMHO, is comparing the bench shirts/squat suits/groove briefs in PL to those nasty oily site-injections in bodybuilding.
The guys who are "benching" 1000 and squatting 1100-1200 right now are, in no way, shape or form, actually benching/squatting that much weight. Are they strong as hell? OF COURSE THEY ARE. Just to be able to hold that much weight requires insane amounts of strength. But there is a true danger in comparing today's bench pressers and their records to the records from "back in the day" when the first-generation Inzer Blast shirt gave a guy about 25-50 pounds, rather than the 250-300ish pounds they're getting today.
Imagine if Arnold, Lee Haney, Dorian, and Ronnie and their Olympia records were to go up against a bunch of goofs like Gregg Valentino or whatever his name is, with his Synthoil-filled 30" biceps. Did this dude build bigass arms? Oh yeah, he did. But are his arms REALLY that much more impressive than, for example, Arnie's? Or Ronnie Coleman's?
Not in the least. Certainly a lot bigger, but they are artificially bigger.
Imagine if an old-schoool brute like Ken Lain, Dave Pasanella or Ed Coan had access to triple-ply denim squat suits, bouncy-bouncy bench press shirts, and turbo-charged groove briefs, like they do today?
yeah yeah, they used squat suits, knee wraps, and bench press shirts, but anyone with a clue cannot possibly compare the "lifting technology" of 15 years ago to what is going on today.
I don't mean to take credit away from today's powerlifters who are benching 1000+ and squatting 1200, as they are powerhouses, but I'd really like to see the contests move to wraps and belts only. Want to use the fancy stuff in training to keep your joints injury-free? no problem.
come contest time though, let's see what YOU can lift, not what your clothes can lift.
Just my $0.02.
EVERYONE setting records in the APF and USPF are using drugs.
and everyone who can place top 10 in the Olympia (and just about any national-level bb contest) is using drugs.
they are both using. drugs are a complete non-issue, because the playing field, in this respect, is even. To say that drugs in bodybuilding is "ridiculous" must mean that drugs in powerlifting is ridiculous as well. I won't judge either, you do what you have to do, just don't use 'em in a drug-tested event to compete against people who are trying to do it "truly natural".
a far more honest comparison, IMHO, is comparing the bench shirts/squat suits/groove briefs in PL to those nasty oily site-injections in bodybuilding.
The guys who are "benching" 1000 and squatting 1100-1200 right now are, in no way, shape or form, actually benching/squatting that much weight. Are they strong as hell? OF COURSE THEY ARE. Just to be able to hold that much weight requires insane amounts of strength. But there is a true danger in comparing today's bench pressers and their records to the records from "back in the day" when the first-generation Inzer Blast shirt gave a guy about 25-50 pounds, rather than the 250-300ish pounds they're getting today.
Imagine if Arnold, Lee Haney, Dorian, and Ronnie and their Olympia records were to go up against a bunch of goofs like Gregg Valentino or whatever his name is, with his Synthoil-filled 30" biceps. Did this dude build bigass arms? Oh yeah, he did. But are his arms REALLY that much more impressive than, for example, Arnie's? Or Ronnie Coleman's?
Not in the least. Certainly a lot bigger, but they are artificially bigger.
Imagine if an old-schoool brute like Ken Lain, Dave Pasanella or Ed Coan had access to triple-ply denim squat suits, bouncy-bouncy bench press shirts, and turbo-charged groove briefs, like they do today?
yeah yeah, they used squat suits, knee wraps, and bench press shirts, but anyone with a clue cannot possibly compare the "lifting technology" of 15 years ago to what is going on today.
I don't mean to take credit away from today's powerlifters who are benching 1000+ and squatting 1200, as they are powerhouses, but I'd really like to see the contests move to wraps and belts only. Want to use the fancy stuff in training to keep your joints injury-free? no problem.
come contest time though, let's see what YOU can lift, not what your clothes can lift.
Just my $0.02.
jcp2
Active member
Tiervexx said:
Well why tell me, go log onto monstermuscle and tell those guys their lifts are comical, just make sure to post your real name. My name is Joe Panella, you are completely welcome to come up to Iron Island with me on a Saturday and tell the WPO competitors that workout their, thier lifts are comical as well. You are invited anytime.
jcp2
Active member
kethnaab said:
most definately are, i can think of a few off the top of my head who are not. Please know what you are talking about when accusing people of using drugs. I can think of one USAPL bench press champ off the top of my head who does it for fun, he is a very successful guy, and has been natural his whole life. I can also think of a few WPO competitors who don't use gear. But like i said, you cannot even compete locally without drugs in bodybuilding. But i do agree steroids are a bigpart of these sports. i am not anti-steroid, just trying to prove a point.
wnt2bBeast
New member
700+ for 5 reps deep no belt no wraps isnt really that amazing 
its funny how allthe weak assclowns here prolly dont even bench 315 or theyre just big pussies who are afraid to climb under the bar with some weight on it..
id like to buy a shirt that breaks my sticking point LOL
and for the record there is only one official 1000 bench its not as if everyone is benching that weight..
I think the bench shirt gets picked on the most is because every fuggin jackass in the world BENCHES..that is how all the little boys iwith small penises equate themselves with the rest of the bigger boys..no noe ever asks what do you squat or pull..why??? because they dont do those exercises so for them to measure themselves against you it doesnt matter if you squat 1200..but they all bench so they ask how much do you bench? and when you say X weight thatis when they all freak out and start to say how this is cheating etc and how much a shirt adds to your lift..grow some fucking balls anbd get stronger or shut the fuck up and buy a shirt and really see what its like for yourself
its funny how allthe weak assclowns here prolly dont even bench 315 or theyre just big pussies who are afraid to climb under the bar with some weight on it..
id like to buy a shirt that breaks my sticking point LOL
and for the record there is only one official 1000 bench its not as if everyone is benching that weight..
I think the bench shirt gets picked on the most is because every fuggin jackass in the world BENCHES..that is how all the little boys iwith small penises equate themselves with the rest of the bigger boys..no noe ever asks what do you squat or pull..why??? because they dont do those exercises so for them to measure themselves against you it doesnt matter if you squat 1200..but they all bench so they ask how much do you bench? and when you say X weight thatis when they all freak out and start to say how this is cheating etc and how much a shirt adds to your lift..grow some fucking balls anbd get stronger or shut the fuck up and buy a shirt and really see what its like for yourself
LiftingDukkha
New member
Devastation said:
I thought I read somewhere that Mendelson benched 755 raw, breaking the old raw record
LiftingDukkha
New member
Tiervexx said:
Watch out, I tried to make this same point under another name on another weightlifting forum & I got banned. I was showing "disrespect" to the Mendelson & Rychalk worshippers. So I avoid the topic altogether now.
I agree suits & wraps can be good for injuries, prevention, etc. But imo this hydraulic machine aid is a bit nutters. I want to know what my own real strength is.
(Still, on the other hand, I think "top-down" training always somehow helps -- doing max singles all the time, instead of reps, for example, is proven to be able to make people the strongest, if done right. So it might make sense that "out-kicking your coverage" by wearing shirts & suits might actually make you stronger when raw. I don't know.)
As for roids, if I could do them with medical & scientific precision, I probably would. But I can't so I don't. They are medicine, after all, and help lots of people live better lives, when done correctly.
jcp2
Active member
LiftingDukkha said:
In training. Their is a kid named Nick Winters at Westside right now who benches, i beleive, 650 raw with a pause. I think he is in his early 20's, he may do some real damage in the future. I hear Chabot is making a comeback as well, to try and challenge mendys record.
Also i love raw lifting, i get the privledge to workout with John Bernor quite often, he has to be one of the premiere raw squatters going. 720x5 no belt or wraps, all well below parallel.
I just feel until you pot the gear on and struggle through a workout with 100 lbs more than you could handle raw on the bench, and fell the pain, you really shouldn't talk shit about it. Or feel like your head is going to pop from the pressure in the hole when squatting in a suit.
LiftingDukkha
New member
jcp2 said:
Yeah, that's part of what I meant when I wondered if "top-down" training like this could help. It seems to make some sense that really over-loading your system can actually make you stronger even raw. (Just like doing 1 RM singles makes you stronger than doing 20 RM, etc.)
Jesus Christ.
Chambewy20
New member
Tiervexx said:
So if I am correct in assuming that you beleive considering Powerlifting a Sport is comical, maybe I ought to take you to Westside and have you say that to either the morning or the evening crew, I'm sure you wouldn't mind.
Or are you saying considering bench only a sport is comical? Also, I've never heard of a squat only meet but would have liked it cause I was much better at a squat than anything else.
Regardless, there are comps for every type of lifter known to man, natural, raw, single ply poly only, double ply poly only or up to triple anything goes. Unless you compete, don't criticize because you really don't know what the hell your talking about, sit back down in front of your computer and remain a spectator.
LiftingDukkha
New member
While there isn't direct transfer over to other sports, weightlifting is completely central to all sports! If a hardcore powerlifter decided to emphasize a different sport, he or she would automatically have an unfair advantage because of his/her crazy strength. Running is easier, including for larger people who powerlift, compared to their non-lifting counterparts. Powerlifters hit things harder, can potentially jump higher, etc. than non-weightlifting people who attempt the same training in other sports. Saying powerlifting isn't a sport is like saying running isn't a sport -- both are completely central to all other sports.
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
Chambewy20 said:
Hell's Yeah!!!
....love this post! I'll spread around some K and hit you later for this one.
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
jcp2 said:
You are correct. I've been up there and he is a nice guy. He benches with ease. Chamb can probably speak more to this - we've both seen him bench.
Westside has been doing well lately. Good times again for Louie and crew.
Tiervexx
New member
Maybe a better way to make my point is with an example. Even if playing Football took no physical effort it would still be a game that many would find interesting, but powerlifting is is just that, lifting a damn bar. It is not even slightly impressive unless you are aware of the power needed to move that bar. Equipment takes away from that.
jcp2
Active member
Tiervexx said:
I am not sure the level of your education, but this point makes absolutely no sense anyway i think about it. Wearing equipment automatically makes it not a sport? Bodybuilding is a bunch of people standing around in bikinis. I consider that a sport, yet their is nothing even remotely athletic involved in a bodybuilding show. It actually more resembles a fashion show, or beauty pageant in the way the events are run. You are talking about something you have absolutely no knowledge of, and i am pretty sure absolutely no experience in. I am also going to go out on a limb and assume you have no experience in bodybuilding as well. You sound like one of the many "keyboard jockeys" who has an opinion on everything, and experience in nothing.
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blut wump
New member
Let's go back to tennis matches with just the palms of our hands or bicycles made of iron. Obviously, no spikes for runners and no aerodynamic suits for swimmers, cyclists, skaters and runners. What about modern sports jerseys which help to conduct and evaporate sweat? Advances in footwear for almost every sport?
Where does it end and where do you draw the line? Each federation or sporting body defines the rules for its own sport. If I don't like it I watch something else secure in the knowledge that someone else still finds it interesting.
Where does it end and where do you draw the line? Each federation or sporting body defines the rules for its own sport. If I don't like it I watch something else secure in the knowledge that someone else still finds it interesting.
Chambewy20
New member
Tiervexx said:
Based upon that premise, a sport is only a sport if it is a game? You mean you have to score or something in order for it to be a sport?
So track is not a sport, I don't beleive you are scored during track, winning is qualitative, whether your first or not, and based upon your performance. Or maybe if your on a track team, winning is quantitative, the team with the most points wins.
Regardless it's obvious you have never worn a bench shirt, worn a squat suit or been in a competition. Your merely talking out your ass because your arguments have no basis, how interesting would football be if there was no physical effort, not interesting at all and no one would care.
I mean let's compare american football to soccer or rugby, the fact that americans use equipment based upon your argument negates the validity or whether it's interesting or not correct? I mean 10 million people at home during the Super Bowl watching grown men knock the snot out of each other is not interesting?
wnt2bBeast
New member
its easy to tell who has a small penis in this thread 
Chambewy20
New member
At least we're gettin some action around here, anything is better than nothing!!!
wnt2bBeast
New member
we know youve got the biggest penisstilleto said:
Tiervexx
New member
Chambewy20 said:
LMAO! you realize what you just did? in your last sentence you made my point about football being interesting as something in and of itself for me!
Watching things that are like games with or without equipment can be interesting, but power lifting is not a game, it is demonstration.
jcp2 said:
Congratulations, you managed to totally miss my point. First of all, I never said body building was a sport, so why are you attacking it like you think it helps you? Did I even say anything about body building? Pay attention.
FYI, Ed Coan, Bill Kazmire, and Glen Chabot have often expressed views similar to mine (though the first two are normally less blunt). Are you going to also tell me that they only feel that way because of their lack of experience?
You have not presented a single shred of logic. Every time I’ve posted on a thread like this the first response is someone telling me that they bet they could out bench me.
My point is so simple and absolute you have to have an emotional attachment to the boost equipment gives to fail to grasp it. Powerlifting is unique in that it is entirely dependent on strength, that’s the whole point of any sort of old strongman competition that led to modern powerlifting, even if you do 99% of the lift yourself, the simple facts that many lifters can not lift their shirted maxes raw, and that shirts are adding more and more to lifts each year, makes them completely indefensible.
Tiervexx
New member
blut wump said:
what you would and would not call a sport really is not important to my argument. What matters is that unlike Tennis and cycle riding powerlifting is supposed to be all about power!
I could give a shit that Tennis players use racket that add to their ball speed...but you really wana judge powerlifters by the same standards as tennis players?
blut wump
New member
The concept of sport isn't relevant here which is maybe why I didn't mention it. Powerlifting is about lifting. At its best, it's not about power it's about getting the weight up; force not powewr. Oly lifting is about power.
The suits, shirts etc fulfill the same role in powerlifting as the aids do in the list of activities I mentioned. What was the point of your last post? I seem to have missed it.
The suits, shirts etc fulfill the same role in powerlifting as the aids do in the list of activities I mentioned. What was the point of your last post? I seem to have missed it.
Chambewy20
New member
Tiervexx said:
Dude... like everyone else has said 50 times, you don't know shit from applebutter about powerlifting so save you breath and your litte arguments for the other 15 year olds.
Chambewy20
New member
Tiervexx said:
Oh and before I caught up in this useless argument once again, previously you stated call powerlifting a sport was comical, not a game, points or no points your still a dumbass!!!
jacked clown
New member
Point to point all you badass lifters and shit are on a online forum flexing your finger muscles and grinning at the next cunning thing you can bring to the table...i mean thread. While all the people in the world who actually can talk shit and who are the ones we are defending because we think they care that OMG he is so strong could careless because their out getting stronger!
Tiervexx
New member
Chambewy20 said:
Chambewy20 said:
All you’ve done is make personal attacks. The only attempt you made at actually arguing was in post 40 where you directly contradicted yourself.
The comment about age is especially pathetic since so many of the older lifters share my views (though they are normally less blunt) it is primarily the young punks who want to try to pretend that the use of gear is no big deal, and they really are that much stronger.
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
Tiervexx said:
I've read through this whole thread before posting a reply again to your quotes above. Your first post on this thread was your opinion on the use of equipment in powerlifting. Your words verbatim are here: [[I post on these threads sometimes because I, like many others on this site am really fascinated by great feats of strength. There is no possible way that anyone could be genuinely interested in a bench-press, just because it's a bench-press, or in a squat, just because it's a squat. Calling those sports is comical.]] After you say this you speak about the usage of equipment, such as a bench shirt adding significant poundages to a bench press. I can't seem to understand the point you are trying to make. You are certainly entitled to your opinion about the use of equipment in powerlifting, but I wonder if you have ever used a bench shirt. Seriously, have you? The reasons I ask are as follows.
1. Bench shirts are extremely difficult to fit and master for most people. It takes a very long time (sometimes years) to find not only the perfect fit, but brand or fabric which works best for a person
2. Bench shirts generally help a person at a particular point of the press movement. Different people are weak at different points; out of the hole, mid-range or lockout. When this happens, no shirt will assist with a sticking point. The foundation of the lift is training for 'the lift'. PL is not about building the muscle as a focus - training the lift is. If the sticking point is at the lockout, one will train with a 4-5 board press. If out of the hole, training to touch the chest with pop out of the hole and also speed work or as it is called speed or dynamic effort training.
3. I have never seen a bench shirt lift any weight (I just added this for S&G, but do you understand where I am coming from?)
After competing in BB for 7yrs, I switched to PL. My training for PL actually originated (as I was lucky one day) at Westside Barbell in Columbus. Being around and watching some of the best lifters in the world was pretty awe inspiring. It WAS genuinely interesting to watch a bench or a squat and there was nothing comical in my thinking this was truly a sport these people trained for and believed in. The amount of self-education, training for speed and strength, GPP workouts and trying to consistently challenge the body to become a better athlete (as these people are tremendous athletes) was pretty amazing to watch. Do you realize the amount of overall athletic training it requires Chuck Vogepohl to be able to squat 1000lbs? He has to be a phenomenally trained athlete to get under that weight, suit or no suit.
I spent much time there watching these people train to be some of the best in the world in their sport of powerlifting. Oh - and every once in awhile - they would put on a bench shirt or squat suit.
There is so much that goes into training for powerlifting to compete. It is a sport with designated divisions and federations. Everyone has their choice which to choose, Natural, Raw, Single-ply, Double...and so on. There is as equal a playing field in PL as with any other sport. Each person is competing against their like peers. I am not sure what else to say, but to me and others who have spent a lot of serious time and effort in the sport - would probably wonder if you are speaking from experience or just letting us know that you enjoy feats of strength.
Come to the Arnold Classic and watch a 148lb teenager squat 800lbs...In a canvas suit - yes, but who the hell cares? It is truly an amazing feat of strength from someone who squatted 500lbs more than me when I weighed only 6lbs less.
Tiervexx
New member
Quadsweep's Sister said:
WOW. I am genuinely shocked to see a civil and intelligent reply. Every time I post on a thread about equipment in powerlifting all I get is some meat head telling me that he could kick my ass.
What I really meant to say in my earlier posts on this thread is that the original intention of powerlifting was to be a “show of strength.” And that the lifts are interesting because they demonstrate strength, not because there is something interesting about the bench press itself. When I said it is not a “sport” (poor choice of wording on my part) it sounds like that was interpreted to mean it was not impressive, or hard. That is not what I meant at all. What I meant is that it is that when you watch someone bench press +500 lbs with clean form it is not the literal movement of the metal that is awe inspiring, it is the knowledge of how much strength it requires to move the metal.
To answer your question, no I have not worn a bench shirt. You know why? Because I am afraid I might like it (after taking the time to get used to it of course). I know myself well enough to know, that I, like most lifters am some what in love with the idea of getting stronger. Something I figured out early in my training is that when ever I would get sloppy on form, and as a result break a new record, I would get emotionally attached to that extra power that I thought I had, and that it is difficult to come to terms with the fact that, that new record was not the result of a real power increase, but only slight “cheating.”
Likewise, I understand how many already extremely strong lifters could fall in love with the idea of pressing 700 lbs, even when they can do 600 or so without a shirt. I understand that using shirts is a skill in itself as is using leg drive within legal limits and various other techniques that serious lifters use to move heavier weights, but it is a natural absolute that if you can not lift X amount of weight without item A then you can not truly lift X amount of weight regardless of how trivial item A seems to be.
One common response to criticisms of equipped lifting is that the same lifters who do +700 lbs with shirts are still enormously strong without them, and maybe could do 600 or more raw, but the obvious rely to this is that if someone can do 612 or what ever clean they should accept that, that is the real number.
You and many others who have defended equipped lifting have mentioned that there are different federations that give different playing fields that others find comfortable, so there is no need for there to be a conflict between them, but this is more often than not a lie. Maybe not you in particular but if someone who does not know much about lifting asks a lifter how much they do in what ever lift they will often give the highest assisted max and try to pass it of as if it is the same thing. I obviously can’t say exactly how many lifters do this but I have met quite a few that do and if you look through the posts on this board you can find that many are guilty of this to some extent.
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
Tiervexx said:
Well - as with any sport the playing field is leveled as much as it can be most times. You have to compete with the knowledge the event holder has done their best to match apples to apples. This is competition. If one person lies to another about their weight lifted, then it is a just that. Whether it be a RAW max or a SHIRTED max - it is no matter, a lie is a lie when told. With the usage of equipment you will find once studied, professional powerlifters will post both their raw and shirted (equipment) max. There is nothing to hide or lie about. It would be impossible to know how much is gotten out of a shirt if one knows not his/her raw max.
And so what if you try a shirt and like it? You may like to try something different and eventually compete. I would really think more about why it would bother you so much to try it. Its not a drug or shot in the arm - its just a piece of fabric...Like trying to tell Captain Hook not to use his wooden leg. Go better, mo better.
wnt2bBeast
New member
its really fucking sad that this thread has gone to 4 pages in the PL forum when there are so many other better things to talk about
my bench sucks so im gonna buy a better shirt so that i bench 650- i dont think im even gonna train i thin ill just sit on the couch until my next meet and then put it on
my bench sucks so im gonna buy a better shirt so that i bench 650- i dont think im even gonna train i thin ill just sit on the couch until my next meet and then put it on
Quadsweeps Sister
New member
wnt2bBeast said:its really fucking sad that this thread has gone to 4 pages in the PL forum when there are so many other better things to talk about
my bench sucks so im gonna buy a better shirt so that i bench 650- i dont think im even gonna train i thin ill just sit on the couch until my next meet and then put it on
........[sigh]
wnt2bBeast
New member
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Quadsweep's Sister again.
Chambewy20
New member
As everyone figured days or weeks ago, defending equipment against someone who has NEVER worn equipment of any sort is useless.
All arguments based only on speculation shows the true degree of ignorance in some people.
I firmly beleive if you've never tried it or even competed at all, how can you criticize or attack a sport or "demonstration."
I mean really who's the meathead here?
All arguments based only on speculation shows the true degree of ignorance in some people.
I firmly beleive if you've never tried it or even competed at all, how can you criticize or attack a sport or "demonstration."
I mean really who's the meathead here?
Tiervexx
New member
Chambewy20 said:
you say I can't attack suits not having worn one? By that logic we are in no position to judge a murder till after becoming one ourselves. You guys really need to take a course in reasoning or something because this seriously is not logic at all.
And if you will address this:
Tiervexx said:
With something other than a personal attack and/or blatant logical falsity I will gladly shut up.
Powerlifting57
New member
yea i beleive mendys 715 is more impressive than rychleks 1005 he is fat ass hell and uses a shirt to get 1005 granted that is alot of weight and i do have respect for that but thats not natural strength.
wnt2bBeast
New member
Powerlifting57 said:
im not agreeing or disagreeing with you..
but why does Gene bench more shirted than Mendy? both have access to the same equipment..how can you say one man is stronger than the other..if you had tme both do a raw bench then it would be fair
you non shirted benchers just dont understand whats involved..and if you put a shirt on a few times that doesnt make you a shirted bencher either
wnt2bBeast said:
I guess these anti-shirt guys just want to see lots of big guys blow out their shoulders. Benching appears to have reached a sort of limit to what the human frame can accomplish, beyond which injury is almost certain. For shirtless bench, that limit seems to be somewhere in the 700s, no?
wnt2bBeast
New member
Mr. dB said:
prolly less than 5 people who can come close to that # raw
Mendy
Kennelly(saw him do 625x2 in his beach clothes)
Rychlak
yeah i have no desire to test how much my pec/shoulder can take raw lol
if my shirted bench goes up then iknow im getting strnger since i use the same shirt every time..
these guys also make it seem as though EVRYONE is benching 1005..there are still only a handful of people coming close to that number as well
Chambewy20
New member
It's a losing battle, most if not all the bench shirt haters have never competed nor ever donned a piece of gear in their lives besides wrist straps/ wraps or knee wraps.
Like pissin in the wind...
Like pissin in the wind...
kethnaab
New member
see chambewy, I have to disagree with you.
although I must agree that Tier takes things far out of hand, there is a valid point to all of this.
Take a look at what has happened to the bench press "records" over the last 10 years. Compare the bench press records of 30 years ago to 20 years ago to 10 years ago to now. Do the same for squat and deadlift.
Explain to me the ridiculously bizarre phenomina you find. I'll sum it up in 1 sentence.
Gear don't help the deadlift, but it makes the squat and bench records worthless.
I'm sure Alex Rodriguez could lay the old home run records if he used an aluminum baseball bat.
although I must agree that Tier takes things far out of hand, there is a valid point to all of this.
Take a look at what has happened to the bench press "records" over the last 10 years. Compare the bench press records of 30 years ago to 20 years ago to 10 years ago to now. Do the same for squat and deadlift.
Explain to me the ridiculously bizarre phenomina you find. I'll sum it up in 1 sentence.
Gear don't help the deadlift, but it makes the squat and bench records worthless.
I'm sure Alex Rodriguez could lay the old home run records if he used an aluminum baseball bat.
Chambewy20
New member
Dude I'm not arguing here or trying to make any point, simply saying all the gear haters have mostly never used it or competed so they don't actually give a fair point of view.
Have YOU ever worn a bench shirt, squat suit or even competed?
Have YOU ever worn a bench shirt, squat suit or even competed?
kethnaab said:
wnt2bBeast
New member
there are a lot more factors thna just equipment..
training for one thing monilifts and yeah better squat suits have helped the squat
better benches, technique, new training methods, better shirts etc have helped the bench
the dead is still the same bar on the floor grip and rip..it hasnt changed as much as the other lifts..
it aint just equipment!!! ytou still need to be strong out of the equipment otherwise you will be pushing te same weights year in year out..why is it so called "raw" lifter dont get that last point????
training for one thing monilifts and yeah better squat suits have helped the squat
better benches, technique, new training methods, better shirts etc have helped the bench
the dead is still the same bar on the floor grip and rip..it hasnt changed as much as the other lifts..
it aint just equipment!!! ytou still need to be strong out of the equipment otherwise you will be pushing te same weights year in year out..why is it so called "raw" lifter dont get that last point????
kethnaab
New member
chewy, yes, yes and yes
first time I ever wore a squat suit I damn near fell on my face. Heh...damn groove.
I see a ton of use for them, I honestly do. Keeping the shoulders from ripping, allowing one to handle heavier weight on their shoulders in the squat (kinda like swinging a heavy pipe before going to bat in a baseball game), etc
not a "gear hater", so to speak. I just don't like to see a dude hitting 1000 on the BP, and we actually might wonder if he could hit 700 raw.
first time I ever wore a squat suit I damn near fell on my face. Heh...damn groove.
I see a ton of use for them, I honestly do. Keeping the shoulders from ripping, allowing one to handle heavier weight on their shoulders in the squat (kinda like swinging a heavy pipe before going to bat in a baseball game), etc
not a "gear hater", so to speak. I just don't like to see a dude hitting 1000 on the BP, and we actually might wonder if he could hit 700 raw.
Tiervexx
New member
I think I may have come off more hateful then I really ment to. I understand that injury is a very real worry for the really big lifters but I don't need to wear a shirt to know that there is a 290 lbs diffrence between the raw and shirted records. And you can't tell me that shirts are just to protect from injury with a number like that.
If nobody was getting more then 15 or even 50 lbs out of the shirt I wouldn't attack it like I do now.
If nobody was getting more then 15 or even 50 lbs out of the shirt I wouldn't attack it like I do now.
wnt2bBeast
New member
Tiervexx said:
LOL at 290 carryover..Id kill for 290 lb carryover
you should go post your opinions at www.deepsquatter.com..i sugest the freak forum
Devastation said:
I used to work out at a gym in Miami and they have a team of UM lifters one of which holds or held the World Record bench press of 744lbs. (raw) and is also 4 time world strongest man. They have a poster on the wall with all of his accomplishments. He does warm up reps on flat bench using 405 pounds. Sometimes he doesn't even re-rack the weight, he will rest the bar on his chest between sets. The dude must weigh 400lbs. I think his first name is James.
"My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in
weakness." 2 Cor. 12"9-10
I think the problem is that people who don't powerlift, have no idea what a shirt is for bench pressing. They see bench press numbers like 1005 lbs. and then think that the guy who can bench press 500(raw) is half as strong as the guy who lifted 1000lbs with a shirt. Saying you bench 500lbs sounds a lot better if the world record was 700, rather then 1000+. So it hurts the guy who doesn't want to use a shirt so to speak. Why do you think the average joe asks you what you can bench press rather then squat/deadlift?? Because they have a reference as to how much weight is good or bad for the bench press.
I guess my point is that, due to the huge difference in weight a shirt lets you press, it screws up points of reference people have. If I bench 300lbs. raw, what does that equat to with a shirt?? I'll will never know unless I buy a shirt and practice. So how can I compare myself to others who use a shirt?? Its like drugs in the pro bodybuilding. If they stopped using drugs, they would shrink massively in size and wouldn't be very impressive after seeing the freaky size of the guys today. If people stopped using shirts, the bp numbers would drop and not be very impressive. Once someone benchs 1000lbs., 725lbs. just doesn't sound like a lot, shirt or not.
No big deal, anyone who lifts natural and without equipment shouldn't even think about looking at the numbers the pros lift. If you want to talk cheating, talk about the mad AAS use in lifting. I would love to see what people can accomplish naturally, but those numbers aren't impressive and get no media attention. It makes natural people like myself very unimpressive. A 300+lbs. bench press would sound great if the world record was 500lbs., at 1000lbs., its pathetic. My body would look much more impressive if not for all the drugs available to make 300lb 4% bodyfat monsters. I look at flex magazine and then see myself in the mirror and get very frustrated. The bar is raised way too high no to be special naturally.
I guess my point is that, due to the huge difference in weight a shirt lets you press, it screws up points of reference people have. If I bench 300lbs. raw, what does that equat to with a shirt?? I'll will never know unless I buy a shirt and practice. So how can I compare myself to others who use a shirt?? Its like drugs in the pro bodybuilding. If they stopped using drugs, they would shrink massively in size and wouldn't be very impressive after seeing the freaky size of the guys today. If people stopped using shirts, the bp numbers would drop and not be very impressive. Once someone benchs 1000lbs., 725lbs. just doesn't sound like a lot, shirt or not.
No big deal, anyone who lifts natural and without equipment shouldn't even think about looking at the numbers the pros lift. If you want to talk cheating, talk about the mad AAS use in lifting. I would love to see what people can accomplish naturally, but those numbers aren't impressive and get no media attention. It makes natural people like myself very unimpressive. A 300+lbs. bench press would sound great if the world record was 500lbs., at 1000lbs., its pathetic. My body would look much more impressive if not for all the drugs available to make 300lb 4% bodyfat monsters. I look at flex magazine and then see myself in the mirror and get very frustrated. The bar is raised way too high no to be special naturally.
Chambewy20
New member
Well said dude.
Just for the record, I am a pure powerlifter, I ain't that great, I train in a single ply closed back shirt and my numbers ain't all that impressive.
I do know as acquaintances some big name lifters, everyone I've ever met are top notch guys, treated me the same as anyone else, didn't matter if you could barely eek out 300 or 800, they helped me immensely and I appreciate that.
I get defensive when folks trivially think shirts or suits make your raw max double, negating the fact these guys have done this for years, suffered many injuries and set backs yet still compete for little or no reward. These competitors are blue and white collar folks like you or I, none of these guys make a living from powerlifting.
Just for the record, I am a pure powerlifter, I ain't that great, I train in a single ply closed back shirt and my numbers ain't all that impressive.
I do know as acquaintances some big name lifters, everyone I've ever met are top notch guys, treated me the same as anyone else, didn't matter if you could barely eek out 300 or 800, they helped me immensely and I appreciate that.
I get defensive when folks trivially think shirts or suits make your raw max double, negating the fact these guys have done this for years, suffered many injuries and set backs yet still compete for little or no reward. These competitors are blue and white collar folks like you or I, none of these guys make a living from powerlifting.
Powerlifting57
New member
yes i do compete, i have a karins dd in my closet ( hated every minute of using it)
i beleive it is lieing not a true feat of strength. my old coach was 308 class benched 825 shirted and 450-500 raw yes he was getting 300 lbs out of his shirt due to the fact that he masterd it they actually called him the shirt master. BUt put us raw lb for lb i was stronger than him. Im not trying to give myself the big head its just. I cant stand peopel who use shirts. They think they are bad because they can do 500 in a shirt. Bu only do 350-400 raw not to impressive for 200 lbs imo.
not trying to start an argument just voicing my opinion that there should be raw classes at meets.
i beleive it is lieing not a true feat of strength. my old coach was 308 class benched 825 shirted and 450-500 raw yes he was getting 300 lbs out of his shirt due to the fact that he masterd it they actually called him the shirt master. BUt put us raw lb for lb i was stronger than him. Im not trying to give myself the big head its just. I cant stand peopel who use shirts. They think they are bad because they can do 500 in a shirt. Bu only do 350-400 raw not to impressive for 200 lbs imo.
not trying to start an argument just voicing my opinion that there should be raw classes at meets.
Powerlifting57
New member
lmao i am no longer lifting with them. Due to the fact that everyone of them was going shirted and training shirted and i was the only one raw so i couldnt lift with them.
jcp2
Active member
Big time powerlifting is equipped lifting. End of story. It is what it is. And the world record raw bench is not 744 nor has it ever been. My raw bench has gone down the last 8 months as my shirted bench goes up. You can not take someones untrained raw bench, and their trained shirted bench and get your carryover. I could probably put 50 lbs on my raw bench by training it for 6 weeks. I would be fine with benching 700 in a shirt and not be able to hit 400 raw. When i get bonus points on my total for raw lifting i will worry about it. Everyone is so worried about everyone else, but the funniest part is the people making the most noise don't even compete, it isn't thier sport, i would guarantee they don't compete in anything, but they have something to say. To the guy above who likes to lift raw, good for you, compete raw, all the power to you. NO POWERLIFTER HAS EVER TRIED TO COMPARE THEIR EQUIPPED LIFTS TO RAW GYM LIFTERS, EVER. I think this comes down to an ego thing for the gym lifter who feels slighted becuase his big 385 juiced up bench looks puny to a powerlifters shirted 530 bench. But in all reality i have rarely if ever seen a gym lift that would pass meet conditions anyway. As for the records, who cares. Everyone knows that ED COAN was the best ever, even though travis mash broke his total record. I have never even heard the thought entertained that Travis is a better lifter. Another thing is i don't see any competive lifters looking for acceptance from the steroid message board community, they look for acceptance and recognition from their own community. Equipment is here to stay, sorry. But since you don't compete Tieravexx or whatever your name is, it really doesn't matter, nor affect you. You can go back to you your fitness club and pump out your bench presses and talk about how you could put up huge numbers as well, but you wouldn't cheapen yourself as to put the equipment on.
wnt2bBeast
New member
Powerlifting57 said:
LOL and what was ur shirted bench since oyu are stronger than your coach???
never once have i ever compared my shirt bench to anyones RAW bench just like JCP stated..ALso my raw bench has gone down as well because of all the upper end work i do i jsut cant handle benching heavy raw on a second day especially without special vitamins..
you cant stand shirted benchers? sounds to me like theres something lurking beneath the surface there..perhaps you didt get as much out of it as you thought? why? maybe it wa a little harder than you thought? something you actually have to work for..people do not put a shirt on and get 300 out of it..i am not saying its impossible to get 200 or more out of a shirt but it takes practice as well as strength..its a different kind of strength and having been in a shirt i figured you would realize that..maybe you just thought the shirt would press the weight for you???
Powerlifting57
New member
wnt2bBeast said:
no i was doing 380 at the time and put up 500 the second week having the shirt. It hurt my wrists so bad that it was impossiable to use ( i fractured boith my growth plates playing football).
also im not bashing shirt benchers i have respect for them as long as its above 500 lbs. if you have to use a shirt to get 400 or below thast just plain retarted i beleive once you have hit your natural strength it is time for one. I have not hit my natural strength. So i hung it up.
none of my lifts are sloppy i train as if i was competing making sure i use proper from. butt dosent come off the bench, legs dont move, bar moves up in sync.
Last edited:
jcp2
Active member
Powerlifting57 said:
I do agree with you, you should have a very good level of natural strenght before you start putting the gear on. I was in the area of a 420 bencher when i put the shirt on, not great, not bad. But i think you can lift raw until you can bench in the 300-400 range depending on your weight age, etc. Powerlifting is a sport, that is the thing people dont get, especially gym lifters.
So with that in mind what is a level of good natural strength? I am a gym lifter, never wore a shirt or competed. I have always wanted to compete but never persued it. Now at 36 feel I may have missed out. I am a 250lb natural lifter with a "gym lift" of 475 on the bench, no pause, touch and go. Is this a good level of natural strength to even consider competing?
Chambewy20
New member
cwpick said:
Definately an excellent lift, adding a shirt can bump that number up considerably but you will have to learn how to bench in it.
There's all kinds for records for all kinds of athletes in regards to bench, natural or not, single, double or triple ply, poly only, all that good stuff.
Just have to find or choose your niche and run with it.
Powerlifting57
New member
Chambewy20 said:
agreed, i would go to a meet raw just to get the feel of it, how it works, get the anxiety out that you feel the first time competing. Go back get a karins dd karinsxtremepower.com would be suggested. Learn the shirt as stated up farther it is not put it on bam 1000 lbs you have to learn the groove learn to get it set, were to touch, everything its like learning out to bench again also i would recomend getting a lever belt or a inzer economy belt to keep the shirt down as it has a tendensy to ride up.
Powerlifting57
New member
cwpick said:
what state do you live in. You dont have to go to a specific raw meet you can lift raw at any meet.
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