Bench Press

[blut wump]

The concept of sport isn't relevant here which is maybe why I didn't mention it. Powerlifting is about lifting. At its best, it's not about power it's about getting the weight up; force not powewr. Oly lifting is about power.

The suits, shirts etc fulfill the same role in powerlifting as the aids do in the list of activities I mentioned. What was the point of your last post? I seem to have missed it.

 

[lilpumper]

interesting thread.. i use a bench shirt to get past my peaks, it lets you get used to the weight and then you can bench it without the shirt. some people on here are acting like someone would be benching 100 lbs instead of 400 if they didnt have the shirt on.

 

[Chambewy20]

LMAO! you realize what you just did? in your last sentence you made my point about football being interesting as something in and of itself for me!

Watching things that are like games with or without equipment can be interesting, but power lifting is not a game, it is demonstration.



Congratulations, you managed to totally miss my point. First of all, I never said body building was a sport, so why are you attacking it like you think it helps you? Did I even say anything about body building? Pay attention.

FYI, Ed Coan, Bill Kazmire, and Glen Chabot have often expressed views similar to mine (though the first two are normally less blunt). Are you going to also tell me that they only feel that way because of their lack of experience?

You have not presented a single shred of logic. Every time I’ve posted on a thread like this the first response is someone telling me that they bet they could out bench me.



My point is so simple and absolute you have to have an emotional attachment to the boost equipment gives to fail to grasp it. Powerlifting is unique in that it is entirely dependent on strength, that’s the whole point of any sort of old strongman competition that led to modern powerlifting, even if you do 99% of the lift yourself, the simple facts that many lifters can not lift their shirted maxes raw, and that shirts are adding more and more to lifts each year, makes them completely indefensible.

Dude... like everyone else has said 50 times, you don't know shit from applebutter about powerlifting so save you breath and your litte arguments for the other 15 year olds.

 

[Chambewy20]

LMAO! you realize what you just did? in your last sentence you made my point about football being interesting as something in and of itself for me!

Watching things that are like games with or without equipment can be interesting, but power lifting is not a game, it is demonstration.



Congratulations, you managed to totally miss my point. First of all, I never said body building was a sport, so why are you attacking it like you think it helps you? Did I even say anything about body building? Pay attention.

FYI, Ed Coan, Bill Kazmire, and Glen Chabot have often expressed views similar to mine (though the first two are normally less blunt). Are you going to also tell me that they only feel that way because of their lack of experience?

You have not presented a single shred of logic. Every time I’ve posted on a thread like this the first response is someone telling me that they bet they could out bench me.



My point is so simple and absolute you have to have an emotional attachment to the boost equipment gives to fail to grasp it. Powerlifting is unique in that it is entirely dependent on strength, that’s the whole point of any sort of old strongman competition that led to modern powerlifting, even if you do 99% of the lift yourself, the simple facts that many lifters can not lift their shirted maxes raw, and that shirts are adding more and more to lifts each year, makes them completely indefensible.

Oh and before I caught up in this useless argument once again, previously you stated call powerlifting a sport was comical, not a game, points or no points your still a dumbass!!!

 

[jacked clown]

Point to point all you badass lifters and shit are on a online forum flexing your finger muscles and grinning at the next cunning thing you can bring to the table...i mean thread. While all the people in the world who actually can talk shit and who are the ones we are defending because we think they care that OMG he is so strong could careless because their out getting stronger!

 

[Tiervexx]

Oh and before I caught up in this useless argument once again, previously you stated call powerlifting a sport was comical, not a game, points or no points your still a dumbass!!!

Dude... like everyone else has said 50 times, you don't know shit from applebutter about powerlifting so save you breath and your litte arguments for the other 15 year olds.

All you’ve done is make personal attacks. The only attempt you made at actually arguing was in post 40 where you directly contradicted yourself.

The comment about age is especially pathetic since so many of the older lifters share my views (though they are normally less blunt) it is primarily the young punks who want to try to pretend that the use of gear is no big deal, and they really are that much stronger.

 

[Quadsweeps Sister]

All you’ve done is make personal attacks. The only attempt you made at actually arguing was in post 40 where you directly contradicted yourself.

The comment about age is especially pathetic since so many of the older lifters share my views (though they are normally less blunt) it is primarily the young punks who want to try to pretend that the use of gear is no big deal, and they really are that much stronger.

I've read through this whole thread before posting a reply again to your quotes above. Your first post on this thread was your opinion on the use of equipment in powerlifting. Your words verbatim are here: [[I post on these threads sometimes because I, like many others on this site am really fascinated by great feats of strength. There is no possible way that anyone could be genuinely interested in a bench-press, just because it's a bench-press, or in a squat, just because it's a squat. Calling those sports is comical.]] After you say this you speak about the usage of equipment, such as a bench shirt adding significant poundages to a bench press. I can't seem to understand the point you are trying to make. You are certainly entitled to your opinion about the use of equipment in powerlifting, but I wonder if you have ever used a bench shirt. Seriously, have you? The reasons I ask are as follows.

1. Bench shirts are extremely difficult to fit and master for most people. It takes a very long time (sometimes years) to find not only the perfect fit, but brand or fabric which works best for a person
2. Bench shirts generally help a person at a particular point of the press movement. Different people are weak at different points; out of the hole, mid-range or lockout. When this happens, no shirt will assist with a sticking point. The foundation of the lift is training for 'the lift'. PL is not about building the muscle as a focus - training the lift is. If the sticking point is at the lockout, one will train with a 4-5 board press. If out of the hole, training to touch the chest with pop out of the hole and also speed work or as it is called speed or dynamic effort training.
3. I have never seen a bench shirt lift any weight (I just added this for S&G, but do you understand where I am coming from?)

After competing in BB for 7yrs, I switched to PL. My training for PL actually originated (as I was lucky one day) at Westside Barbell in Columbus. Being around and watching some of the best lifters in the world was pretty awe inspiring. It WAS genuinely interesting to watch a bench or a squat and there was nothing comical in my thinking this was truly a sport these people trained for and believed in. The amount of self-education, training for speed and strength, GPP workouts and trying to consistently challenge the body to become a better athlete (as these people are tremendous athletes) was pretty amazing to watch. Do you realize the amount of overall athletic training it requires Chuck Vogepohl to be able to squat 1000lbs? He has to be a phenomenally trained athlete to get under that weight, suit or no suit.

I spent much time there watching these people train to be some of the best in the world in their sport of powerlifting. Oh - and every once in awhile - they would put on a bench shirt or squat suit.

There is so much that goes into training for powerlifting to compete. It is a sport with designated divisions and federations. Everyone has their choice which to choose, Natural, Raw, Single-ply, Double...and so on. There is as equal a playing field in PL as with any other sport. Each person is competing against their like peers. I am not sure what else to say, but to me and others who have spent a lot of serious time and effort in the sport - would probably wonder if you are speaking from experience or just letting us know that you enjoy feats of strength.

Come to the Arnold Classic and watch a 148lb teenager squat 800lbs...In a canvas suit - yes, but who the hell cares? It is truly an amazing feat of strength from someone who squatted 500lbs more than me when I weighed only 6lbs less.

 

[Tiervexx]

I've read through this whole thread before posting a reply again to your quotes above. Your first post on this thread was your opinion on the use of equipment in powerlifting. Your words verbatim are here: [[I post on these threads sometimes because I, like many others on this site am really fascinated by great feats of strength. There is no possible way that anyone could be genuinely interested in a bench-press, just because it's a bench-press, or in a squat, just because it's a squat. Calling those sports is comical.]] After you say this you speak about the usage of equipment, such as a bench shirt adding significant poundages to a bench press. I can't seem to understand the point you are trying to make. You are certainly entitled to your opinion about the use of equipment in powerlifting, but I wonder if you have ever used a bench shirt. Seriously, have you? The reasons I ask are as follows.

1. Bench shirts are extremely difficult to fit and master for most people. It takes a very long time (sometimes years) to find not only the perfect fit, but brand or fabric which works best for a person
2. Bench shirts generally help a person at a particular point of the press movement. Different people are weak at different points; out of the hole, mid-range or lockout. When this happens, no shirt will assist with a sticking point. The foundation of the lift is training for 'the lift'. PL is not about building the muscle as a focus - training the lift is. If the sticking point is at the lockout, one will train with a 4-5 board press. If out of the hole, training to touch the chest with pop out of the hole and also speed work or as it is called speed or dynamic effort training.
3. I have never seen a bench shirt lift any weight (I just added this for S&G, but do you understand where I am coming from?)

After competing in BB for 7yrs, I switched to PL. My training for PL actually originated (as I was lucky one day) at Westside Barbell in Columbus. Being around and watching some of the best lifters in the world was pretty awe inspiring. It WAS genuinely interesting to watch a bench or a squat and there was nothing comical in my thinking this was truly a sport these people trained for and believed in. The amount of self-education, training for speed and strength, GPP workouts and trying to consistently challenge the body to become a better athlete (as these people are tremendous athletes) was pretty amazing to watch. Do you realize the amount of overall athletic training it requires Chuck Vogepohl to be able to squat 1000lbs? He has to be a phenomenally trained athlete to get under that weight, suit or no suit.

I spent much time there watching these people train to be some of the best in the world in their sport of powerlifting. Oh - and every once in awhile - they would put on a bench shirt or squat suit.

There is so much that goes into training for powerlifting to compete. It is a sport with designated divisions and federations. Everyone has their choice which to choose, Natural, Raw, Single-ply, Double...and so on. There is as equal a playing field in PL as with any other sport. Each person is competing against their like peers. I am not sure what else to say, but to me and others who have spent a lot of serious time and effort in the sport - would probably wonder if you are speaking from experience or just letting us know that you enjoy feats of strength.

Come to the Arnold Classic and watch a 148lb teenager squat 800lbs...In a canvas suit - yes, but who the hell cares? It is truly an amazing feat of strength from someone who squatted 500lbs more than me when I weighed only 6lbs less.

WOW. I am genuinely shocked to see a civil and intelligent reply. Every time I post on a thread about equipment in powerlifting all I get is some meat head telling me that he could kick my ass.

What I really meant to say in my earlier posts on this thread is that the original intention of powerlifting was to be a “show of strength.” And that the lifts are interesting because they demonstrate strength, not because there is something interesting about the bench press itself. When I said it is not a “sport” (poor choice of wording on my part) it sounds like that was interpreted to mean it was not impressive, or hard. That is not what I meant at all. What I meant is that it is that when you watch someone bench press +500 lbs with clean form it is not the literal movement of the metal that is awe inspiring, it is the knowledge of how much strength it requires to move the metal.

To answer your question, no I have not worn a bench shirt. You know why? Because I am afraid I might like it (after taking the time to get used to it of course). I know myself well enough to know, that I, like most lifters am some what in love with the idea of getting stronger. Something I figured out early in my training is that when ever I would get sloppy on form, and as a result break a new record, I would get emotionally attached to that extra power that I thought I had, and that it is difficult to come to terms with the fact that, that new record was not the result of a real power increase, but only slight “cheating.”

Likewise, I understand how many already extremely strong lifters could fall in love with the idea of pressing 700 lbs, even when they can do 600 or so without a shirt. I understand that using shirts is a skill in itself as is using leg drive within legal limits and various other techniques that serious lifters use to move heavier weights, but it is a natural absolute that if you can not lift X amount of weight without item A then you can not truly lift X amount of weight regardless of how trivial item A seems to be.

One common response to criticisms of equipped lifting is that the same lifters who do +700 lbs with shirts are still enormously strong without them, and maybe could do 600 or more raw, but the obvious rely to this is that if someone can do 612 or what ever clean they should accept that, that is the real number.

You and many others who have defended equipped lifting have mentioned that there are different federations that give different playing fields that others find comfortable, so there is no need for there to be a conflict between them, but this is more often than not a lie. Maybe not you in particular but if someone who does not know much about lifting asks a lifter how much they do in what ever lift they will often give the highest assisted max and try to pass it of as if it is the same thing. I obviously can’t say exactly how many lifters do this but I have met quite a few that do and if you look through the posts on this board you can find that many are guilty of this to some extent.

 

[Quadsweeps Sister]

You and many others who have defended equipped lifting have mentioned that there are different federations that give different playing fields that others find comfortable, so there is no need for there to be a conflict between them, but this is more often than not a lie. Maybe not you in particular but if someone who does not know much about lifting asks a lifter how much they do in what ever lift they will often give the highest assisted max and try to pass it of as if it is the same thing. I obviously can’t say exactly how many lifters do this but I have met quite a few that do and if you look through the posts on this board you can find that many are guilty of this to some extent.

Well - as with any sport the playing field is leveled as much as it can be most times. You have to compete with the knowledge the event holder has done their best to match apples to apples. This is competition. If one person lies to another about their weight lifted, then it is a just that. Whether it be a RAW max or a SHIRTED max - it is no matter, a lie is a lie when told. With the usage of equipment you will find once studied, professional powerlifters will post both their raw and shirted (equipment) max. There is nothing to hide or lie about. It would be impossible to know how much is gotten out of a shirt if one knows not his/her raw max.

And so what if you try a shirt and like it? You may like to try something different and eventually compete. I would really think more about why it would bother you so much to try it. Its not a drug or shot in the arm - its just a piece of fabric...Like trying to tell Captain Hook not to use his wooden leg. Go better, mo better.

 

[Tiervexx]

And so what if you try a shirt and like it? You may like to try something different and eventually compete. I would really think more about why it would bother you so much to try it. Its not a drug or shot in the arm - its just a piece of fabric...Like trying to tell Captain Hook not to use his wooden leg. Go better, mo better.

but the shirt is to enhance what is already there, the wooden leg is to replace something taken, so they are fundementally diffrent.

I plan on competing, but still do not understand how anyone could be interested in assisted lifting.