when did these high doses become the right thing?

[Computer]

Great post Mr. Montana.

 

[needtogetaas]

Its a trend, if a few more posts someone going to say, OH HERES THE HIGH DOSE BANDWAGON HATERS.

When I first joined this board I remember anavar being 20-30mg day and that was high then.

I have said it before ill say it again.we really should work to change the trend back to lower doses for first cycles.

 

[jochensa]

i dont know bros dorian had great genetic as do alot fo the pros, but the factor is how long where they on. and how long they trained. on any dose it takes years to build dorians, arnold, levrone's physiques. so could alot of these kids be dorian if they were taking a gr a week, maybe. but more often than not they lose interest when it doenst happen over night. for instance dorian won the night of the champions at 28, the rest is history

 

[chazk]

i dont know bros dorian had great genetic as do alot fo the pros, but the factor is how long where they on. and how long they trained. on any dose it takes years to build dorians, arnold, levrone's physiques. so could alot of these kids be dorian if they were taking a gr a week, maybe. but more often than not they lose interest when it doenst happen over night. for instance dorian won the night of the champions at 28, the rest is history

true dorian worked out for 10 years to win major titles
jay took almost 20 years to win the mr o trianing at age 17 to start in the npc at 19 then took 15 years to win the big O

its almost as people do not relize when dorian was running a gram he had already been traiing for 8 - 10 years on roids most of that time

your right wanting it over night = mega doses

 

[OMEGA]

above gram dosage make sense when stacking


its like if you run an EQ, Test, and Deca stack

just by defualt you will run more then a gram to tap into the power of what each compound can deliver.

thats the point of view here.

of course there will be disagreement but oh well.

 

[Quadsweep]

Great post Nelson. I have said this os many times on here. I trained clean for 12 years and competed and did well for 6 of those before I did gear. It took 5 years for me to get over a combined 500mg P/W cycle. I won two overalls like this.....and to be honest.....I suck! No, really I do. Compared to the pros....I suck. I am at 2 grams a week now combined for Jr USA's and this is the most I have done sine 2002 USA's. I do not understand a Joe Schmo doing as much as I am for this comp. when i would not if it were not for this comp. Its not worth the health risks compared to the benifits if your genetics cannot carry it.

Quadsweep

The reason the stories have changed is clearly for one reason -- internet message boards. And the proliferation of self appointed experts with no cred beyond posting on message boards.

I've never spoken to Arnold but I've spoken to guys who trained with him. And I was around when steroids were legal and the use was very much in the open. I've sat across from Dan Duchaine as he spoke about coaching pro bodybuilders for major contests. I've spoken to many pros who were quite candid about their use and I can tell you two things with all certainly.

One: None of the guys back in the 60's and 70's ever took more than a gram a week.

And two: There are even pros today that don't take as much as most of the guys on this board.

I know no one wants to admit it because then they'd have to admit how much they suck. Too many people want to believe the difference between greatness is a matter of the drugs because, lets face it, they're a big factor. But they're only one factor. Genetics, plus the genetics for the drugs themelsves are HUGE factors. Arnold responded to d-bol in an amazing way. But the biggest factor was the training. Most guys don't get close to training at the intensity of the old timers. Sorry. Those guys were obessed.

Because of the availability of the drugs and a fellow audience with whom to respond instantly, it's only natural that more and more people are going to push the envelope. After a while a gram a week is commonplace and no one can comprehend making gains with less. When people say things like "those old guys were on year round" or "they took more than they admit to" ...they simply do not know what they're talking about. I was there.

Another thing no one wants to admit was that the old timers were coming from a "health" perspective. They treated the stuff with respect. Sure, by the 70's that started to change among the hardcore guys but keep something else in mind; these were DRUGS and as far as anyone knew, there were dangers involved. It takes time for more and more people to see how far they can go. Don Howorth (Mr. America) told me that when he took 20 mgs of d-bol he was ecstatic at the progress he made! That's because he busted his ass for years fighting for every ounce of muscle he had. Too many young guys today simply do not understand that... and never will.

I've often made the point that it isn't so much the biggest guy who knows the most, but the guy who makes the most progress. Who do you think knows more about building muscle, some guy who does a gram of week and weighs 190 pounds or some guy who started at 150 and got to 190, drug free? On the boards....it doesn't matter. People want the easy answer and they're more likely to ask the guy who does the gram a week for advice.

Arnold was known for his excessive drug use. He shot 100mgs of Primo a day along with 50 mgs of d-bol and was considered a renegade! Dan Duchaine told me Dorian liked to use just testosterone and did a gram a week which, believe it or not, was considered "high" back in 1990.

If higher dosages were the answer guys on this board would be monsters. Although some bros look real good, I also see a lot of pics of guys who look like any average Joe who works out. Sometimes not even that. And they're juicing harder than Dorian did. Think about that.

I know my rant will not change what anyone will do, nor is it meant to. My approach to steroids is their optimal usage as an adjunct to natural training. In that regard, yes, I know my sh*t. I have to laugh when I see guys giving cocksure advice on stuff on which they have no clue. And all these questions about which stack is better and what to use as a "cutter" ( which are jokes IMO) are all a bunch of self (and shared) delusion in an effort to think oneself knowledgable. For the most part, a gram is a gram. Ever do a free standing hack squat? Pay your dues sonny.

Yep, it's a differant world and I accept it. And I'm all for civil liberties so if want to take 10 grams a week in order to look good on the beach, be my guest. But don't try to concvice me that it's the only way.

And don't try to rewrite history.











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[todoveritas]

The above post by Nelson Montana is one of the best posts I have read this year. It should be required reading by all newbies!

 

[gettnlarge01]

Most people believe more gear will make up for lack of genetics,training or diet.

 

[OMEGA]

ps: Nelson indeed Great post.

Glad you confirmed the Dbol, Primo Stack Arnie Used

myself , you and one other have said this before. And its not common to here.


May I ask if you know what he used OFF cycle if anything?

 

[Nelson Montana]

ps: Nelson indeed Great post.

Glad you confirmed the Dbol, Primo Stack Arnie Used

myself , you and one other have said this before. And its not common to here.


May I ask if you know what he used OFF cycle if anything?

Arnie used off season what all of them used -- nothing. That includes no PCT.

Why would they? Those guys looked amazing all years because they loved training.

I don't know if anyone remembers Zabo Kosewski but when asked how long it took him to prepare for acontest his reply was , "3 days." He was simply never out of shape. Again, compare this to the kid who just started working out and wants to know if a 12 weeker with sus, winny and EQ, followed by a course of HCG and 100 mgs of clomid for 3 weeks is any good. And people tell him it's not enough.

Logic dictates thet you build up a tolerence and dependence to any drug so why use it when you don't have to? There are pictures of Arnie off season and although he still had those amazing genetics he didn't look at all spectacular. Legs got thin, delts got small, abs got soft. Others looked better off season. So in a way, Arnie was the first of the new age of "chemically enhanced" superstars because his receptors took to the juice like a sponge to water.