when did these high doses become the right thing?

[lifthard2005]

well i can speak from experience and started as a new at high doses already. first cycle was 750mg of test e, 400mg deca, dbol at 50-60mg ed.....

by cycle 12 i was at 4.5 grams a week as it was something i thought would make me so dam big i would explode, WRONG!!!

at 4g a week, you become a different person, different personality, agression the second you heard something that made you think, oh, and gains, yea right. i was so saturated and lethargic, i stopped at week 4.

i learned myself, without listening to others, that more is not better. im now on 1.5g and happy. it is all about the way you use this stuff that makes the difference. use as low amounts as possible while getting results. save your money. dont be a pin cusion if you dont have to be. I became someone who started depending on the gear instead of good diet, powerful workouts, etc. I lost focus.

Well, now I am doing better and seeing more of a change with 3 times as less gear. The addictive thoughts of more is better can overcome you easily, hence the high dosed cycles we seen today vs. 5 yrs ago or more.

at 4g a week, i was running:

test @ 1200mg
eq@ 1200mg
npp @ 600mg (then to 100mg ed)
dbol @ 100mg ed

way way too much!

most change I ever seen in body composition was prop/tren/winny

I might run: test e / tren e / var / winny next year.

 

[Nelson Montana]

Solid has posted his pics on this board before and for 57yrs old he looks awesome. he didn't even take his first injection until he was 47yrs old. how old was Don?(who by the way does look great) and as long as i've seen Solidspine post on this board, i have never seen him try to sell his dosages or in your words "extreme behavior" to anybody. nor has he tried to sell products or books

Okay, fair enough. But I stand by my point that it's more than what can be considered healthy or helpful. That's all. As for selling my books and supps, I'm proud of my products and they've helped a lot of people. If anyone els ecan do the same, i support them.

\\



lifthard: With your next cycle, don;t be surprised if you don't need any anti-e's besides some supps since it's not heavily strogenic and Winstrol acts as an anti-e anyway.



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[Anthony Roberts]

Solid has posted his pics on this board before and for 57yrs old he looks awesome. he didn't even take his first injection until he was 47yrs old. how old was Don?(who by the way does look great) and as long as i've seen Solidspine post on this board, i have never seen him try to sell his dosages or in your words "extreme behavior" to anybody. nor has he tried to sell products or books

Most of the time, when you get very good at something, you turn it into a career. This is either because as a "hobby" it takes too much time...and you can produce an economically viable product once you are good enough. In Nelson (and my own) case, that is producing books and supplements.

It's the same as a professional athlete...when they get good enough as an amateur, someone offers to pay them to do it as a professional. It should be seen as a good thing that Nelson is a professional in this field, and he's here lending his time to the site.

 

[NYBodyguard]

lol every few years there is another yapper who acts like they sat in medical school for 100 years and then a few years go by and we find out they knew shit.

people get real nobody knows for certain crap, using mod doses is good for many reasons but mainly because we simply dont know and more mg hasnt proven to be all that great to outweigh the sides.

so please dont listen to nobody listen to yourself start low if it works keep it that way, these forum doctors will do you more bad then good.

enjoy and play safe

 

[needtogetaas]

Solid has posted his pics on this board before and for 57yrs old he looks awesome. he didn't even take his first injection until he was 47yrs old. how old was Don?(who by the way does look great) and as long as i've seen Solidspine post on this board, i have never seen him try to sell his dosages or in your words "extreme behavior" to anybody. nor has he tried to sell products or books

stop killing the people that are here to help bro.ya some of us talk about products shit I tell people to use derma and custom caps all the time but its because I like them.I don't rec amend then more then some one else would other products and nether do nelson or anthany.

the knowledge and products on this board are vast and plentiful.there are many types for many people and every thing will work or not work for every one but we are all here to help them find out right.....if we can all do a lot less fighting about the small stuff around here focuse on bigger things like just helping people out,outing the real scamers,bombing the spamers,and sharing
all we can with one another we can bring this site back to its glory.

 

[Mac173]

stop killing the people that are here to help bro.ya some of us talk about products shit I tell people to use derma and custom caps all the time but its because I like them.I don't rec amend then more then some one else would other products and nether do nelson or anthany.

the knowledge and products on this board are vast and plentiful.there are many types for many people and every thing will work or not work for every one but we are all here to help them find out right.....if we can all do a lot less fighting about the small stuff around here focuse on bigger things like just helping people out,outing the real scamers,bombing the spamers,and sharing
all we can with one another we can bring this site back to its glory.

That's really all that matters.

 

[Sam5]

I wish you would read what I posted, and please don't make assumptions on my training and diet regimen.
Good for you, you managed to gain 20lbs on 2yrs, nevermind the fact that you weighed 150 when you started. Just in case you didn't understand this, the heavier you get the harder it is to gain the mass. So going from 150 to 170 doesn't mean a whole lot.

I'm sorry I must interject here as I agree with both sides to a degree but moreso with srf1452whatever. In my own experience, and having been on for quite some time (1 year straight) I can attest that after so long each pound comes after much hard earned work. The only time that I really gain a good deal of weight is when I add a new drug, but that is still only like 6-10 lbs. and half of that is water. I stay on test all the time but will throw in deca for instance for 3-4 months, then I'll drop the deca and throw in tren for 2 months, then drop the tren and throw in EQ for 4-5 months. I've heard so many stories on Dorian and how he used tha I really don't know what to believe. A national level competitor told me that what dorian would do was similar to what I'm doing except he only did one drug at a time eg. test then deca then tren then EQ and so on so his receptors would constantly be exposed to change, but I really don't know. I do know that no matter how good my diet is and I take 500mg of test c every 4 days and 500mg of deca a week, any muscle I gain is worked hard for, it does not come easy. My training partner and I have talked about upping our dosages to 3-4 grams a week just to see what would happen because I have more than enough stuff to do this, I'm just not so sure right now. I want to have everything dialed in before I go that high. I am looking to do a show in Chicago in the fall and will probably get crazy 2-3 months before the show. Who knows though.

 

[jeb0177]

wow finally someone said the truth. good post!

The reason the stories have changed is clearly for one reason -- internet message boards. And the proliferation of self appointed experts with no cred beyond posting on message boards.

I've never spoken to Arnold but I've spoken to guys who trained with him. And I was around when steroids were legal and the use was very much in the open. I've sat across from Dan Duchaine as he spoke about coaching pro bodybuilders for major contests. I've spoken to many pros who were quite candid about their use and I can tell you two things with all certainly.

One: None of the guys back in the 60's and 70's ever took more than a gram a week.

And two: There are even pros today that don't take as much as most of the guys on this board.

I know no one wants to admit it because then they'd have to admit how much they suck. Too many people want to believe the difference between greatness is a matter of the drugs because, lets face it, they're a big factor. But they're only one factor. Genetics, plus the genetics for the drugs themelsves are HUGE factors. Arnold responded to d-bol in an amazing way. But the biggest factor was the training. Most guys don't get close to training at the intensity of the old timers. Sorry. Those guys were obessed.

Because of the availability of the drugs and a fellow audience with whom to respond instantly, it's only natural that more and more people are going to push the envelope. After a while a gram a week is commonplace and no one can comprehend making gains with less. When people say things like "those old guys were on year round" or "they took more than they admit to" ...they simply do not know what they're talking about. I was there.

Another thing no one wants to admit was that the old timers were coming from a "health" perspective. They treated the stuff with respect. Sure, by the 70's that started to change among the hardcore guys but keep something else in mind; these were DRUGS and as far as anyone knew, there were dangers involved. It takes time for more and more people to see how far they can go. Don Howorth (Mr. America) told me that when he took 20 mgs of d-bol he was ecstatic at the progress he made! That's because he busted his ass for years fighting for every ounce of muscle he had. Too many young guys today simply do not understand that... and never will.

I've often made the point that it isn't so much the biggest guy who knows the most, but the guy who makes the most progress. Who do you think knows more about building muscle, some guy who does a gram of week and weighs 190 pounds or some guy who started at 150 and got to 190, drug free? On the boards....it doesn't matter. People want the easy answer and they're more likely to ask the guy who does the gram a week for advice.

Arnold was known for his excessive drug use. He shot 100mgs of Primo a day along with 50 mgs of d-bol and was considered a renegade! Dan Duchaine told me Dorian liked to use just testosterone and did a gram a week which, believe it or not, was considered "high" back in 1990.

If higher dosages were the answer guys on this board would be monsters. Although some bros look real good, I also see a lot of pics of guys who look like any average Joe who works out. Sometimes not even that. And they're juicing harder than Dorian did. Think about that.

I know my rant will not change what anyone will do, nor is it meant to. My approach to steroids is their optimal usage as an adjunct to natural training. In that regard, yes, I know my sh*t. I have to laugh when I see guys giving cocksure advice on stuff on which they have no clue. And all these questions about which stack is better and what to use as a "cutter" ( which are jokes IMO) are all a bunch of self (and shared) delusion in an effort to think oneself knowledgable. For the most part, a gram is a gram. Ever do a free standing hack squat? Pay your dues sonny.

Yep, it's a differant world and I accept it. And I'm all for civil liberties so if want to take 10 grams a week in order to look good on the beach, be my guest. But don't try to concvice me that it's the only way.

And don't try to rewrite history.











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[OMEGA]

I am OMEGA and I approve this dicussion

 

[mobro]

You just had to say SOMETHING huh? LOL.